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Brexit is a Mess, how do we Fix it.

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posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 05:47 AM
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originally posted by: Forensick

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Forensick

Car manufacturers want access to the largest market at the lowest entry cost. Nissan exports the majority of cars it makes in sunderland to the EU.

Given the choice of building cars in the EU and paying tariffs on a small % exported to the UK or building in the UK and paying on the majority what do you think they are going to choose?


Its not a small percent though, there are enough UK sales to warrant a manufacture, UK would not tax car exports, only Europe will tax their import to punish Britain.

The EU dont know if the UK will impose trade tariffs that are unfair, however me thinks that the UK would want fair trade, if we decide what is fair for us and not fair for Europe we will lose out. However the EU want to decide on both accounts, a monopoly on European goods movement....

The UK are one of the biggest contributors to NATO (outside of the US), we work well with Europe on many things and dont want to change that, all we want is to decide for ourselves which should be on a holistic level however the EU want to punish that because we dont want their idea of totalitarianism.

All this is, this whole Brexit debacle, is some but hurt Euros that we called them out. We dont need a EU, we could all get by without it and save billions in EU political costs.

If Greece need help sealing their borders they should be able to request that without France demanding they pay because at the end of the day it protects France and the UK and Eire. The EU is not needed. Its pointless.

The EU is like a business, when the auditors come in and tell them they are too top heavy, they assign the top heavy leeches to sort it out and it becomes more top heavy.

Its got to go and I support Brexit in the hope it assists the EU collapse. The EU is a parasite, corrupt self fulfilling tape worm with a radical agenda that should concern every member and the people they are meant to serve.

Disgraceful abuse of oxygen and borderline dictatorship.


If the UK doesn't apply tariffs then it's even.more likely that manufacture of cars will go into the EU.

Why would any car company choose to pay 10% to import cars from UK to EU rather than build them within the custom union.

The UK domestic market is not big enough to sustain the same level of car production at the same cost. Regardless of what the government does if we are outside the EU cars will get more expensive and manufacturing jobs will go elsewhere.




posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 05:48 AM
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originally posted by: Forensick

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip
a reply to: ScepticScot




No we voted on leaving the EU 2 years ago.


That's right. Did that vote not go the way you wanted?


Irreverent. Why are you so scared of democracy that you oppose having another vote.

I didn't think you were even from the UK (Canada?) So it can't be personal interest. Do you just oppose democracy in principle?


No, I'm just wondering why you want to nullify the results of a referendum. I'm guessing because it didn't turn out the way you wanted.


I want people to have the right to vote on accepting the final agreement. I want to make sure there is genuine public consent for the biggest change to the UK since the 1940s.

The only reason to oppose a second referendum seems to be fear of a different result.


You cannot vote on it, we voted to leave the EU, you cannot then go back and vote for the bits you want and dont want.

The vote to leave the EU should have been made clear that it was for a hard exit, it certainly was clear for me.

Seems now that the vote to leave (from the remainers) is to try and water that down by suggesting they didnt vote "for that".

I suggest you (I may be wrong) and every other person now wanting a second vote, voted to stay, now you are claiming you voted to leave "but not like this".

It was a vote for hard exit and those imbeciles in Europe can make a deal or lose 20% of their market.

Im sure China, South America, America and the East will fill the European 'gap'. I dont like Renault or french wine anyway.


I haven't at any point claimed I voted leave.

We should have a,second vote as it's the democratic and correct thing to do.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 05:53 AM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: eletheia


The country whose borders are causing the problem for Brexit is the very

country forced to revote on the Lisbon treaty ..... further proof of the EU's

control.



And they changed their minds. Do you have a problem with that?

After 800 years of British colonialism and barbarity, you expect the Irish to do the UK a Solid.




The Irish had no problem with taking an £8 billion loan from The U.K. in 2010 when they got themselves into the financial crap.

Maybe we should have just let them sink .
edit on 22-9-2018 by alldaylong because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 05:56 AM
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We should have a,second vote as it's the democratic and correct thing to do.


No It isn't. You can't just ignore the last 2 years. The people who voted to stay seem to think they are correct on everything Brexit, while us leave voters are made to look like idiots who didn't know what we were doing.

It still amazes me how people can't see what a bunch of nasty, sarcastic and greedy people the higher up's at the EU are. They have made themselves look childish through this whole process.

But hey, as long as you get the result YOU want, that's fine.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 05:56 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

The vote to leave the EU obviously meant leaving all the institutions of the EU including the free market if a deal can't be reached.
I knew exactly what I was potentially voting for so of course I disagree with your idea of what is correct and democratic.

TICK TOCK TICK TOCK...soon be March



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 05:57 AM
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originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: eletheia


The country whose borders are causing the problem for Brexit is the very

country forced to revote on the Lisbon treaty ..... further proof of the EU's

control.



And they changed their minds. Do you have a problem with that?

After 800 years of British colonialism and barbarity, you expect the Irish to do the UK a Solid.




The Irish had no problem with taking an £8 billion loan from The U.K. in 2010 when they got themselves into the financial crap.

Maybe we should have just let them sink .

It was the cheapest wonga loan they find at the time and the UK was only happy to hand it over, Do you believe the UK gave them the money out of the goodness of it's heart?.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:01 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol
Who cares?
Vote leave won the day and you can whine as much as you like but you won't be getting the second referendum lol

Ah March, snowdrops, daffodils and an independent UK



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:02 AM
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originally posted by: rhynouk




We should have a,second vote as it's the democratic and correct thing to do.


No It isn't. You can't just ignore the last 2 years. The people who voted to stay seem to think they are correct on everything Brexit, while us leave voters are made to look like idiots who didn't know what we were doing.

It still amazes me how people can't see what a bunch of nasty, sarcastic and greedy people the higher up's at the EU are. They have made themselves look childish through this whole process.

But hey, as long as you get the result YOU want, that's fine.


If you are so convinced why so scared of a second referendum?



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:05 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot



How about giving the people of the UK a chance to say what they want?


But they have, they voted to come out....that's pretty straight forward really isn't it.



Or are you scared about what the result would be?


But we've had the vote, why would anyone be scared of something that's already happened...it literally doesn't make sense.



Referendums are denying the will of the people?


No.
But failing to enact the result of a referendum would be denying the will of the people.



Who suggested that?


Everyone who is demanding another referendum before the result of the first referendum has been enacted.

I know you are an intelligent and reasoned person, surely you see that?



One referendum does not preclude another.


Well actually it does when the outcome of the first referendum hasn't been enacted upon yet.



Democracy means people are allowed to change their minds.


Absolutely.
But if someone who voted Conservative at the last General Election has now changed his mind he can't simply demand another General Election immediately because he's changed his mind, he has to wait until the new government has been formed and the next General Election is held.

Why would that principle be any different for this referendum?


Referendums are undemocratic now?


They are when they are not acted upon.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:06 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: rhynouk




We should have a,second vote as it's the democratic and correct thing to do.


No It isn't. You can't just ignore the last 2 years. The people who voted to stay seem to think they are correct on everything Brexit, while us leave voters are made to look like idiots who didn't know what we were doing.

It still amazes me how people can't see what a bunch of nasty, sarcastic and greedy people the higher up's at the EU are. They have made themselves look childish through this whole process.

But hey, as long as you get the result YOU want, that's fine.


If you are so convinced why so scared of a second referendum?


Nothing to be scared about.

Ok, so say there is another referendum and the result goes the other way and we vote to stay this time, are you going to say that's it, we stay, no more referendums?

No more discussion, the whole leaving thing didn't exist.




edit on Sat, 22 Sep 2018 06:06:33 -0500061892018000000k by rhynouk because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:06 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

I haven't at any point claimed I voted leave.



I dont think anyone is in any doubt of that ..... We've all got the message

loud and clear.




We should have a,second vote as it's the democratic and correct thing to do.



You have taken the EU pill ...... Keep on voting we'll tell you when you have the

correct result.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:07 AM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: ScepticScot

The vote to leave the EU obviously meant leaving all the institutions of the EU including the free market if a deal can't be reached.
I knew exactly what I was potentially voting for so of course I disagree with your idea of what is correct and democratic.

TICK TOCK TICK TOCK...soon be March


Multiple times senior vote leave campaigners said we should could and should stay in the single market.

You are not suggesting they lied are you ?



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:08 AM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

I haven't at any point claimed I voted leave.



I dont think anyone is in any doubt of that ..... We've all got the message

loud and clear.




We should have a,second vote as it's the democratic and correct thing to do.



You have taken the EU pill ...... Keep on voting we'll tell you when you have the

correct result.




No real argument against a second vote then. Unless you are just scared about the result.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Forensick

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Forensick

Car manufacturers want access to the largest market at the lowest entry cost. Nissan exports the majority of cars it makes in sunderland to the EU.

Given the choice of building cars in the EU and paying tariffs on a small % exported to the UK or building in the UK and paying on the majority what do you think they are going to choose?


Its not a small percent though, there are enough UK sales to warrant a manufacture, UK would not tax car exports, only Europe will tax their import to punish Britain.

The EU dont know if the UK will impose trade tariffs that are unfair, however me thinks that the UK would want fair trade, if we decide what is fair for us and not fair for Europe we will lose out. However the EU want to decide on both accounts, a monopoly on European goods movement....

The UK are one of the biggest contributors to NATO (outside of the US), we work well with Europe on many things and dont want to change that, all we want is to decide for ourselves which should be on a holistic level however the EU want to punish that because we dont want their idea of totalitarianism.

All this is, this whole Brexit debacle, is some but hurt Euros that we called them out. We dont need a EU, we could all get by without it and save billions in EU political costs.

If Greece need help sealing their borders they should be able to request that without France demanding they pay because at the end of the day it protects France and the UK and Eire. The EU is not needed. Its pointless.

The EU is like a business, when the auditors come in and tell them they are too top heavy, they assign the top heavy leeches to sort it out and it becomes more top heavy.

Its got to go and I support Brexit in the hope it assists the EU collapse. The EU is a parasite, corrupt self fulfilling tape worm with a radical agenda that should concern every member and the people they are meant to serve.

Disgraceful abuse of oxygen and borderline dictatorship.


If the UK doesn't apply tariffs then it's even.more likely that manufacture of cars will go into the EU.

Why would any car company choose to pay 10% to import cars from UK to EU rather than build them within the custom union.

The UK domestic market is not big enough to sustain the same level of car production at the same cost. Regardless of what the government does if we are outside the EU cars will get more expensive and manufacturing jobs will go elsewhere.


The UK market was not big enough to support a domestic manufacturer and yet somehow the French, Germans and Italians still have National car companies whilst after Rover we lost Landrover and TVR and yet our domestic consumption is still about 100% of foreign vehicles?

Cant help think that this was somehow unfair that bloody Fiat and Alpha from Italy, BMW, VW, Mercedes, Opal and Audi from Germany then Citroen, Peugeot and Renault from France....

Seems to me they have been sucking the EU tit at the expense of the UK.

Doesnt sound right does it, if we import 100% foreign owned vehicles, what have those EU countries got to fear? The UK driving horses again??



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:10 AM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Soloprotocol


Ah March, snowdrops, daffodils and an independent UK


and 10's of thousands of job losses, your children used as cheap labour, zero workers rights, human rights violations, privatised US-style health service, Poverty, pain, and suffering like you've never experienced and the tories desperately signing any trade deal that comes their way regardless of how bad it is. Aye, Bring it on.

Scotland will have another referendum and this time we'll finally slip the chains.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:10 AM
link   

originally posted by: rhynouk

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: rhynouk




We should have a,second vote as it's the democratic and correct thing to do.


No It isn't. You can't just ignore the last 2 years. The people who voted to stay seem to think they are correct on everything Brexit, while us leave voters are made to look like idiots who didn't know what we were doing.

It still amazes me how people can't see what a bunch of nasty, sarcastic and greedy people the higher up's at the EU are. They have made themselves look childish through this whole process.

But hey, as long as you get the result YOU want, that's fine.


If you are so convinced why so scared of a second referendum?


Nothing to be scared about.

Ok, so say there is another referendum and the result goes the other way and we vote to stay this time, are you going to say that's it, we stay, no more referendums?

No more discussion, the whole leaving thing didn't exist.





Well obviously we will ask for another vote....

( I know :-) )



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:11 AM
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posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:14 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn



A star for your detailed and comprehensive patience.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:16 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol
Lmao at your doom porn!
You know none of that project fear ffs no wonder you say the Scots coined that phrase...bunch of scared kittens, didn't even have the balls to leave the UK.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 06:16 AM
link   

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ScepticScot



How about giving the people of the UK a chance to say what they want?


But they have, they voted to come out....that's pretty straight forward really isn't it.



Or are you scared about what the result would be?


But we've had the vote, why would anyone be scared of something that's already happened...it literally doesn't make sense.



Referendums are denying the will of the people?


No.
But failing to enact the result of a referendum would be denying the will of the people.



Who suggested that?


Everyone who is demanding another referendum before the result of the first referendum has been enacted.

I know you are an intelligent and reasoned person, surely you see that?



One referendum does not preclude another.


Well actually it does when the outcome of the first referendum hasn't been enacted upon yet.



Democracy means people are allowed to change their minds.


Absolutely.
But if someone who voted Conservative at the last General Election has now changed his mind he can't simply demand another General Election immediately because he's changed his mind, he has to wait until the new government has been formed and the next General Election is held.

Why would that principle be any different for this referendum?


Referendums are undemocratic now?


They are when they are not acted upon.



This isn't a game, there no rules that x must happen before why and absolutely no reason why we can't have a second referendum.

It's arguably the biggest change to the UK since the 1940s. There is every reason to make the majority support the final decision.







 
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