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Brexit is a Mess, how do we Fix it.

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posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 04:37 AM
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a reply to: 83Liberty


Agreed. They have to find some excuse - any excuse - to enable them to dismiss the "Leave" vote. It also serves to stifle any debate about immigration issues.




posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 05:52 AM
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a reply to: JameSimon



They don't want to make it easy for the UK to leave because you signed a contract.


The UK electorate voted to join a Free Trade Association. Never did they vote for political union and the transfer of sovereignty to a foreign body.



.....most brexiters voted for racial reasons.

That is the biggest load of rubbish posted in this whole thread and shows the depths some will go the to discredit Brexit voters.

Lame, very lame.



As for getting money back, you don't.


I don't think anyone wants any money back, we just have no intention of paying the EU anything for the right to govern ourselves.

a reply to: Cassi3l



Scotland and Ireland wish to stay in the EU


Scotland and Northern Ireland are constituent parts of the UK. (Scotland expressed their wish to remain in the UK in a referendum held in September 2014).



Why should they be beholden to London ?


There's a damn sight more to the UK than London.
If by saying London you mean Westminster well, as much as I dislike the people there it is still the democratically elected assembly of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and as such has to be the ultimate authority in the UK and holds a damn sight more legitimacy than the amoral, corrupt, bloated, undemocratic and dictatorial entity that is the EU.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 06:22 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn
I swore I'd stay out of this thread but the racist thing is ridiculous.
The EU is a free trading block of only white nations, people who voted leave want trade deals with all nations including brown people.
I have many close friends from the EU and they are an integral part of my society...I still voted leave though, and we'll still have non UK workers here because we need them.
The only difference is that after leaving the EU Britain can accept workers from all over the world...even brown people, shock horror!



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 06:30 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Well, playing devils advocate, some clearly racist people did vote for Brexit (including a few i personally know who are members of some very........dodgy groups).

However, to say that everyone who voted for Brexit is racist is clearly codswallop. I would say less than 1% of the total Leave vote could be defined as racists (probably actually far less).

And, in the interests of fairness, it should also be pointed that the Remain vote will have contained communists, die hard socialists, momentum members, etc.

Nuts people on all sides, not just one.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 06:39 AM
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a reply to: Flavian
Good points

As you say, extremist views on both sides.
Playing the racist card is lame as # though.
That clock is still ticking away and after May's reception in Europe yesterday it looks like no deal right now.
Interesting times for sure.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 07:03 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I'm anti-EU not anti-European....a massive difference but one that so many people either can't or won't get their heard around.

Whilst I may have a dislike of certain belief systems there genuinely isn't a racist bone in me.....yet still the Remainers insist on calling me a racist.
Its easy, its lazy and its a deliberate deflection tactic.

a reply to: Flavian


....it should also be pointed that the Remain vote will have contained communists, die hard socialists, momentum members, etc.


Which is pretty ironic and highlights how much The Labour Party has changed.
Traditional Labour stalwarts and supporters have been by and large anti-EU. Tony Benn was passionately opposed to the EU.
So was Jeremy Corbyn when he was a backbencher.....shows how principled he is that he publicly changed sides the minute he was elected Leader of The Labour Party.

But I digress....just for a change!



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 07:13 AM
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originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: JameSimon




Even if your motives may be pure (and I don't like the EU myself) most brexiters voted for racial reasons.


How on Earth can you make such a sweeping statement accusing millions of Brits of racism and dismissing their views? I voted leave and everyone that I know who voted leave did so because we are fed up of being dictated to by the EU. The major factor as far as I can see is that we signed up for a Common Market, not for being absorbed into a bloated European State.

It is depressing and frankly tiresome that remainers choose to dismiss us leavers as ignorant, bigoted racists. Give it a rest, please.


I do, I don't care personally as I don't leave there. But family members that do disagree with your argument as they have actually suffered racism since the vote. But hey, I was wrong to generalize, I'm sure it's a small amount. Same as the same amount that voted and then had google trend "what is brexit" the day after the vote



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 07:15 AM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: JameSimon



They don't want to make it easy for the UK to leave because you signed a contract.


The UK electorate voted to join a Free Trade Association. Never did they vote for political union and the transfer of sovereignty to a foreign body.



.....most brexiters voted for racial reasons.

That is the biggest load of rubbish posted in this whole thread and shows the depths some will go the to discredit Brexit voters.

Lame, very lame.



As for getting money back, you don't.


I don't think anyone wants any money back, we just have no intention of paying the EU anything for the right to govern ourselves.

a reply to: Cassi3l



Scotland and Ireland wish to stay in the EU


Scotland and Northern Ireland are constituent parts of the UK. (Scotland expressed their wish to remain in the UK in a referendum held in September 2014).



Why should they be beholden to London ?


There's a damn sight more to the UK than London.
If by saying London you mean Westminster well, as much as I dislike the people there it is still the democratically elected assembly of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and as such has to be the ultimate authority in the UK and holds a damn sight more legitimacy than the amoral, corrupt, bloated, undemocratic and dictatorial entity that is the EU.



You should read every document I quoted. Even your government admits you have to pay. So yeah, you do have to pay.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 07:17 AM
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There are nutjobs on the right as well as on the left. I'd like to think that the vast majority of people made up their own minds.

Obviously, there were downright lies told by both mainstream sides, but I think people saw through all that. "Project Fear" in particular - we voted "no" and the sky did not fall down - and I am looking at you, Osbourne.

Unfortunately, it is the remainers who just will not give it a rest.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 07:18 AM
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a reply to: JameSimon


Pay what, exactly? There is a "divorce" bill, but what are you talking about?



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 07:42 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
I think its reasonably fair to say that most people be them leave or remain for Brexit can all admit one thing.

The British Government has totally messed this up and it needs fixed otherwise come next march we are totally screwed as a country. I personally blame Mays government for getting us into this mess but now that we are in it we need to fix it.

Full disclosure I am all for remaining in the EU, if we got a second referendum (which I think we need) I will still vote remain. I do not think contrary to what many argue that a second referendum is going against the will of the British people depending on the nature of the question. Multiple referendums have happened in the past in the EU such as Ireland and the Lisbon Treaty. I also really don’t believe the British public had enough information regarding the consequences of Brexit when it came to the first referendum.

And the consequences look severe.

We have the government instructing pharmaceutical firms to start talking up on medication because a no deal situation raise questions about our ability to import goods. There have been very serious warnings about chaos at the border crossings that could lead to massive economic pressure. The housing market could potentially collapse, the lack of skilled immigration is already a massive problem, jobs will be lost, BMW has already come out and said they will be shutting their UK plant for a month after Brexit as part of their contingencies. The list goes and those who are all for a no-deal outcome will call this “project fear” but I say the “fear” is real. And that’s not even getting into the problems that we are going to have with the Irish boarder.

Not only that but let’s face it, it’s just not in in the EU’s interest to let the UK have a nice easy exit. They do that other euro-sceptic nations are going to be looking to leave before long. Sure, the EU might take a hit if the UK have a ugly exit but honestly, in the long term it seems to me that its very much in their interest to make Brexit as hard as possible to deter other nations.

Hell, even that idiot Farage has got back into things because he’s unhappy with the government’s proposals to leave, just like the EU is unhappy with the so-called Checkers deal. Let’s not talk about Boris…..

The point is this, Brexit is a mess, we need to fix it so how do we do it without screwing over the entire country. Personally, I think at the very least we need an extension on the negotiation period and we need the government to get their act together.

Figured this could make for a interesting discussion.


This shyte pishes me off no end. We're British! We used to rule the world because we had the best manufacturing, the best agriculture, the best centres of education. Now we have none of that because rather than relying on our own ability, we have sold out massive chunks of our industry and business to workers in other lands and half the jobs we have on British soil go to immigrants.

It has nothing to do with British people not wanting to work and everything to do with eastern europeans doing the same job for a pittance and living in a tent. Our government has sold us out to corporations who expect cheaper and cheaper labour every year.

Yes, there will be a struggle, it won't ever be an easy break, but for goodness sake the sky won't fall down. What the hell do you think we did before trade unions. WE MADE STUFF GOOD ENOUGH THAT EVERYONE WANTED TO TRADE WITH US!!!

IF YOU DON'T WANT IT, TRY AND FIND IT BETTER ELSEWHERE, OR YOU BUY IT ON OUR TERMS.

We will never get back to that point without some pain first, but seriously, we aren't all a bunch of soyboy vegans who will melt at the sight of a hard days work.

Oh and ps. the housing market crashing would be THE BEST thing that could happen to this country. We need the youth to be able to afford home ownership. It's vital to our wellbeing. Right now, it's basically just another inheritance tax, as very few can afford to buy without an inheritence, at which point, every corporation and their mother takes their chunk of what your family spent years to accrue for their grandchildren, for an overpirced box of bricks sandwhiched horizontally between two others.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 07:44 AM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol
From £350 million on the side of a bus to taking # at the side of the motorway.

BATTLE OF THE PORTALOO M20 to have 13-mile long line of Portaloos to cater for queues of trucks in event of no-deal Brexit

Well done chumps. You can blame May all you want, The fall lies with the gullible pricks that believe the pro-Brexiters lies in the first place. You, You caused this mess.



You voted to remain part of the UK, now you have to go along with what the UK votes for.

Oh well
QQ moar please.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 08:00 AM
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originally posted by: JameSimon

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: JameSimon




Even if your motives may be pure (and I don't like the EU myself) most brexiters voted for racial reasons.


How on Earth can you make such a sweeping statement accusing millions of Brits of racism and dismissing their views? I voted leave and everyone that I know who voted leave did so because we are fed up of being dictated to by the EU. The major factor as far as I can see is that we signed up for a Common Market, not for being absorbed into a bloated European State.

It is depressing and frankly tiresome that remainers choose to dismiss us leavers as ignorant, bigoted racists. Give it a rest, please.


I do, I don't care personally as I don't leave there. But family members that do disagree with your argument as they have actually suffered racism since the vote. But hey, I was wrong to generalize, I'm sure it's a small amount. Same as the same amount that voted and then had google trend "what is brexit" the day after the vote


I call bull on this obvious lie.

typical remainer diatribe because they couldn't think for themselves and don't understand what we voted for. Go look up how the EU works and you might understand why people voted to leave...or you can keep letting the pro remain media tell you the same old lies as they try and make it about race, or stupidity, or age, or some other rubbish, anything to avoid the actual truth.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 08:04 AM
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originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
What's more important, money or freedom?

Has Great Britain become so weak that it can't survive without deals with a foreign trade bloc that wants to dictate the laws that Britain should follow? What happened to the country that sacrificed so much to retain its sovereignty almost 80 years ago? Were those sacrifices meaningless?

This could be Britain's finest hour. Britain doesn't owe the EU a thing. Walk away. If that doesn't sit well with the EU or some European nations, then so be it. Spain, France, Germany, etc., at one time or another Britain has been an enemy and an ally, and Britain still stands. Britain survived the Spanish Armada, Napoleon, and Hitler. Are you really going to raise the white flag to a trade bloc?


My grandfather must be rolling in his grave....



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 08:13 AM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Soloprotocol




Well done chumps. You can blame May all you want, The fall lies with the gullible pricks that believe the pro-Brexiters lies in the first place. You, You caused this mess.

Be calm Chicken Little it'll be alright on the night , no deal is the only real way forward.



Huzzah!



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 08:33 AM
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a reply to: JameSimon




Even your government admits you have to pay. So yeah, you do have to pay.


There are payments to be made on BOTH sides.

For a start, The U.K. has a £9 billion repayment coming back from The European Investment Bank.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 10:02 AM
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originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Flavian


Like Govts have ever stuck to their Manifesto pledges/promises?


Then you get to vote them out at the next election. It is a basic of democracy, although i do completely understand your pessimism!

This whole thing should never have gone to referendum. If Cameron wanted to raise the issue, it should have been part of the manifesto. Instead, we are left with Theresa May dealing almost daily with Brexit and its consequences instead of actually running the country, like the PM is supposed to do.

The whole thing is a political cluster#.


You're missing the point...

It was the FACT that there were enough people wanting out of the EU that FORCED CAMERON'S HAND into putting it to referendum. It was his only chance of political survival, he knew he had too much competition from UKIP (believe it or not) that they could no longer be ignored. They were taking oldschool Tory voters. So he chose to do it to try and save his skin.

Another FACT, there were many more people wanting out of the EU than he had ever imagined.

Disenfranchised voters who had probably never turned out for a general election, went and voted for the referendum.

70% is pretty darn good turnout.

That 70% of our nation made their choice.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 10:24 AM
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originally posted by: Painterz

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Do you equally support a clear supermajority clause for the next Scottish independence referendum?
Your only answer can really be yes then?


As a yes voter I would absolutely agree there should be some form of special rule required for major constitutional change.

Not sure if a supermajority is best option but think should require more than a simple majority in a one off vote.

Even more importantly the rules should be set and apply the same for all major votes. Unfortunately that would require us having a real constitution first.



I agree.

Also as a pro-independence Scot. The next indie referendum should require something like a 60% yes vote, and a certain turnout threshold should be reached too.

Referendum shouldn't be decided by one or two percent, particularly not on major issues.



Also, as a sidenote, come January enough Leave voters will have died off, being as leave voters were predominantly older voters, that the majority for vote leave will have become a minority through simple attrition.


Interesting you say that, as the vote for Scottish independence was NOT so close. Would you want another vote on that?



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: Cassi3l
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The whole thing is just sooo absurd, on so many levels
It's oustanding that Cameron (1,2,3.. i'm counting it out...56 ..78..35 nooo !)
based his whole career on the bet, that "it" couldn't possibly happen

"Nooohh, you'd have to be stupid, n'est-ce pas ?
It is simply inconcievable that voters in the UK
would vote for the dismemberment of the UK as we know it"

That's what's on the cards right now :
Scotland and Ireland wish to stay in the EU
Why should they be beholden to London ?


Are you joking? London was overwhelmingly remain. Even with that, England voted to leave by a long margin.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 10:55 AM
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Reply to eletheia, sprocketUK and alldaylong:- You still haven't got what I'm saying. Let me make it clear.
No matter what I or all of you think it makes not the slightest difference. The government will do what it wants to do. And NO it would not be political suicide for anybody. If what they've been doing these last 10 odd years (don't blame it all on the EU) has not changed their circumstances, this little Brexit bit wont alter anything at all.
You all still don't get it. We are all only important at one period and that is a General Election. Everything and I mean everything in between the ruling government will do whatever it wants and f### the populace.




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