Brexit is a Mess, how do we Fix it.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuyThere will be winners and losers but Britain will adapt and prosperity in the long term as it has done for thousands of years.

Very good news from a different region of Britain regarding the positive benefits of exchange rates and something to ponder on tonight, thanks CCG Your tourists will still arrive in years to come and I'm hopeful things will settle down around here too once we know exactly where we will be in a few years time and our new relationship with the neighbours becomes apparent.

As impending old age kicks in Eletheia everywhere I look the states are gangster states in one way or another EU included

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: alldaylong
Of course you can have it both ways. As stated"non binding", so in both instances the British government decided what they wanted.
A referendum in the UK is NOT legally binding, so legally the government can ignore the result and do what it wants.
Please look up the legal definitions and stop spouting "the British people must be obeyed" BS. The government WILL do what it wants and if you think that they are thinking about the British people in this Brexit then your sadly mistaken.

Legally any UK government can ignore the referendum, just as they can do the opposite of what they promise in their manifesto. Yes, I'm talking about Nick Clegg and Vince Cable who tripled tuition fees after saying they would get rid 9f them altogether.


The question is though, Is it moral to ignore the will of the people?
And if you think it is moral, what does that say about your idea of democracy?

originally posted by: SprocketUK

Legally any UK government can ignore the referendum, just as they can do the opposite of what they promise in their manifesto. Yes, I'm talking about Nick Clegg and Vince Cable who tripled tuition fees after saying they would get rid 9f them altogether.

Look what happened to them........ Where are they now

Scratching around in the political wilderness.

originally posted by: stormcell
The EU was a mess in the first place. On the night that the UK and Norway were to join the EU and sign agreements, the EU tacked on extra conditions that gave the rest of Europe access to fishing waters. That has come back to bite them like a mutant Megalodon shark 50 years later.

They couldn't even get a consistent migration policy to handle the illegal immigrants from Africa. Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece bear the brunt of the invasion, forcing the countries into international debt and IMF bailouts. Some parts of EU just close their borders, others think the immigrants should be doled out between countries, even though they just want to go to those countries with the highest cost of living. France just waves them through to England.

EU never considered that some countries would ever want to leave, so there are no mechanisms to allow a country to disconnect cleanly like cancelling a club membership. They don't want to make it easy for the UK to leave because then other countries who put in more than they get out, would want to leave as well.

So many lies it's not even fun. Portugal barely has any illegal immigrants. Our crisis was caused both by international economic factors, weak economy and successive corrupt cabinets.

They don't want to make it easy for the UK to leave because you signed a contract. So if you want to be a crybaby against tyrannical EU pay up what was agreed (60 billion) and shut up. You guys want all the benefits and none of the responsibilities. Even if your motives may be pure (and I don't like the EU myself) most brexiters voted for racial reasons. I have a lot of family and friends that have been discriminated publicly because they are not British since the vote.

Edit: also, 100% of your trade deals were negotiated via the EU. If you leave you loose all of them, and most trade deals take years to actually take effect. Hard brexit means you'll see an increase of 40 to 70% in imported goods.

This is not a simple subject and it's also one that makes me incredibly angry and depressed. We are sleepwalking to disaster.
I was horrified when the vote came in, but somehow, deep down, unsurprised. The 'remain' campaign was run by David bloody Cameron and George the useless Osbourne. They only ever used one playbook and that was primarily about the 'smear lie and make people feel afraid' tactic. They used it on Scotland in the Independence referendum and frankly it was clear that they'd do the same things.
The 'Leave' faction was led by a rogue's gallery of opportunists, frauds and charlatans. The involvement of Boris Johnson typified this. He wasn't there because he really wanted the UK to leave the EU, he was there to build political capital in his long-term bid to be PM (he must never be PM, the man's a narcissistic pillock who places himself first).
The 'Leave' faction lied about or ignored the major questions that leaving the EU stirred up - what kind of trade deals could be negotiated with the EU if we left the Single Market, how would so many years of our compliance with EU laws would be resolved and ABOVE ALL - what about the Irish border?
All that I ever heard from Farage or Boris or Gove about these issues was lies, delusion or a failure to recognise that a problem exists that had to be dealt with.
And then 'Leave' won and Cameron resigned on the spot and May became PM, a grey-faced failure who continues to fail on an epic scale.
Let us be brutally honest. The referendum was brought in as a part of a desperate effort to avoid a Tory civil war. The Tories have placed party unity and then the careers of their future leaders before country. Words fail me in how much I loathe them. And don't get me started about Corbyn. We do not have any idea about how we can avoid a financial cliff-edge. And anyone who denies that we are heading for economic disaster is an idiot.
One last thing. Jacob Rees-Mogg is an imbecile. The Irish Border is long and complex - and is tied to the Good Friday Agreement. Rees-Mogg does not know what he's talking about.

a reply to: JameSimon

They don't want to make it easy for the UK to leave because you signed a contract

And part of that contract is " Article 50 " which allows member countries to leave The E.U.

At least get your facts right.

So if you want to be a crybaby against tyrannical EU pay up what was agreed (60 billion) and shut up

Where did you get this magic £60 billion figure from. I would love to see your source.

And how about our share of the E.U. assets we have paid for? When do we get repaid for those?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Yes, you have gotten yourselves in rather a mess, I agree. Firstly, I believe that any decision that has this kind of impact should not be based on a very small majority, but should be carried by 2/3s of the population. Now, the decision to leave has already been made. So, what I would propose is that the British government asks the EU for a period of 2 years to reconsider. During those two years everything remains as it is now: open borders, free traffic of goods and people etc. During the first year the British public will be informed about the consequences of leaving and staying - properly this time. Not by politicians, but by scientists, economists, historians, folks like that. Cold, hard facts. Then there will be a new referendum.

This new referendum requires a 2/3 majority. The simple question will be: "do you want to revoke the decision to leave the EU?". If 2/3 of the Brits then says "yes", we know that the UK will be a loyal part of the EU - by will of the people. If not, the UK will at least have had 2 additional years to get their act together.

That's what I think should be done.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: JameSimon

They don't want to make it easy for the UK to leave because you signed a contract

And part of that contract is " Article 50 " which allows member countries to leave The E.U.

At least get your facts right.

So if you want to be a crybaby against tyrannical EU pay up what was agreed (60 billion) and shut up

Where did you get this magic £60 billion figure from. I would love to see your source.

And how about our share of the E.U. assets we have paid for? When do we get repaid for those?

I was wrong, it's 43 billion euro (I didn't use pound, should have explained that as well).

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk...

As for getting money back, you don't. You got repaid by being in a free trade market with free movement of people. You got paid by getting tons of skilled people you didn't have (nurses, teachers, researchers) from other EU countries. You got repaid by not having to use a visa to travel to your holidays in Portugal and Spain.

Since your net contribution according to the last available data was of 8 billion pound and 44% of all your trade is with EU countries, valued at 274 billion pound, even a 5% tariff puts you above your current contribution

www.ons.gov.uk...

fullfact.org...

So you're actually on a net benefit globally, even if your contribution to the EU budget constitutes a net loss to your budget.

Enjoy the reading.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

That's what I think should be done.

Not a " Cat In Hells Chance "

Friday March 29 2019 we are out of The E.U.

Could you imagine if in 1939 Britain was asked to assess for 2 years if it should go to war with Nazi Germany to see what the consequences would be if it did?

Europe forgets Britain's sacrifice during those times.

a reply to: JameSimon

As for getting money back, you don't.

Not sure who told you that but.......

Britain will attempt to offset the cost of Brexit by claiming a significant share of more than €150 billion (£127.5bn) worth of European Union assets, according to reports.

Michel Barnier, the EU's chief Brexit negotiator, is understood to be preparing a list of up to £51bn of liabilities.

Officials in Whitehall are also drawing up their own list of EU financial assets, according to The Times.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Lets just wait and see who gets what.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ForteanOrg

That's what I think should be done.

Not a " Cat In Hells Chance "

Friday March 29 2019 we are out of The E.U.

Could you imagine if in 1939 Britain was asked to assess for 2 years if it should go to war with Nazi Germany to see what the consequences would be if it did?

Europe forgets Britain's sacrifice during those times.

Can I ask if you are advocating a hard Brexit and if so - why?

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ForteanOrg

That's what I think should be done.

Not a " Cat In Hells Chance "

Friday March 29 2019 we are out of The E.U.

Could you imagine if in 1939 Britain was asked to assess for 2 years if it should go to war with Nazi Germany to see what the consequences would be if it did?

Europe forgets Britain's sacrifice during those times.

EDIT - DP

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The whole thing is just sooo absurd, on so many levels
It's oustanding that Cameron (1,2,3.. i'm counting it out...56 ..78..35 nooo !)
based his whole career on the bet, that "it" couldn't possibly happen

"Nooohh, you'd have to be stupid, n'est-ce pas ?
It is simply inconcievable that voters in the UK
would vote for the dismemberment of the UK as we know it"

That's what's on the cards right now :
Scotland and Ireland wish to stay in the EU
Why should they be beholden to London ?

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ForteanOrg

That's what I think should be done.

Not a " Cat In Hells Chance "

Friday March 29 2019 we are out of The E.U.

Could you imagine if in 1939 Britain was asked to assess for 2 years if it should go to war with Nazi Germany to see what the consequences would be if it did?

Europe forgets Britain's sacrifice during those times.

Can I ask if you are advocating a hard Brexit and if so - why?

The ideal would be a deal with The E.U.

If not then so be it. Britain has stood up to dictators in the past and will do so again if need be.

a reply to: alldaylong
Hmm hmm
you never had it so good

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: JameSimon

As for getting money back, you don't.

Not sure who told you that but.......

Britain will attempt to offset the cost of Brexit by claiming a significant share of more than €150 billion (£127.5bn) worth of European Union assets, according to reports.

Michel Barnier, the EU's chief Brexit negotiator, is understood to be preparing a list of up to £51bn of liabilities.

Officials in Whitehall are also drawing up their own list of EU financial assets, according to The Times.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Lets just wait and see who gets what.

Official sources? Zero. You quoted the telegraph. Also, I would reread what you posted. Maybe you'll then grasp exactly what is being claimed back.

a reply to: JameSimon

Well if you're talking about paying up does that include the EU paying us our fair share of EU assets? I mean the current estimate for what is owed to us is between 20 odd billion all the up to 150 billion that includes buildings the wine collection (Had no idea they had a wine collection by the way) and other such programmes that we've paid into and or invested into that we will get nothing from, so yeah if that's how some are seeing it then I'm all for paying what is owed as long as it goes both ways.

a reply to: JameSimon

Even if your motives may be pure (and I don't like the EU myself) most brexiters voted for racial reasons.

How on Earth can you make such a sweeping statement accusing millions of Brits of racism and dismissing their views? I voted leave and everyone that I know who voted leave did so because we are fed up of being dictated to by the EU. The major factor as far as I can see is that we signed up for a Common Market, not for being absorbed into a bloated European State.

It is depressing and frankly tiresome that remainers choose to dismiss us leavers as ignorant, bigoted racists. Give it a rest, please.

a reply to: oldcarpy
They do it because it's easy to play the racist card. It also excludes them from engaging in a proper debate or provide any evidence. All they have are insults, lies, fear-mongering and playing the racist card.

The thing I don't get is that the majority of EU's citizens are Caucasian...
So does that mean we are being racist to our own race?

The irony is that being in the EU means that your immigration policy is racist by definition, but they Remainers never seem to care about that.