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FBI DOJ will still redact documents Trump called to be released

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posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 09:16 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

If there is wrongdoing regarding the fisa applications shouldn't we know now?




posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

At this point you release everything. No exceptions.



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 09:23 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler
That would be bad for two reasons.

One, the investigation could take months or years longer.

So?


If there were actual abuses, should trump just shut up and take it, let himself be smeared for all of that time, and not be able to work on his agenda?

Yes he should. He put himself out there to be elected President. That means dealing with all the # your adversaries throw at you without breaking. Our best Presidents are able to take criticism and political bs and still get their agendas through. For the record, the government is still very much in the GOP's control. It really strains credulity that the Democrats (or whoever) are hindering his agenda.


Secondly, if there was corruption, then it does affect the current investigation.

And why would you believe Trump would be able to identify this corruption reliably? He's never been a lawyer. Let alone a Constitutional lawyer or a federal attorney.


The entire idea seems to be this; make up any reason to spy on or go after people connected with trump, raid their offices in the middle of the night, charge them with decades old crimes, and do anything possible to get them in any kind of legal trouble, then press them to flip to give dirt on anything trump has done.

The entire idea seems to be for Trump to try to release anything he can to the right wing media so they can tear it apart out of context and spin things to make the Deep State look real and vindicate Trump. It's a fishing expedition disguised as transparency.


And now people are saying we shouldnt see potential evidence of wrong doing by investigators until after the investigation?

And now? I've literally been chastising you guys from day 1 on the investigation to wait until it finishes before jumping to conclusions about it.


What possible detriment could Trump releasing fisa details and these texts have to muellers investiogation, unless they show evidence of corruption?

It's more a case of muddying the waters. All the actors in question are long removed from the investigation so there won't be much new info revealed. And everything we know about these people already suggests that Trump is wildly stretching the truth about the Obama admin's actions towards him during the election. I can't see this information doing anything except give ammunition to people looking to justify their partisan beliefs by taking things out of context to prove their confirmation biases.
edit on 19-9-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 09:26 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If there is wrongdoing regarding the fisa applications shouldn't we know now?

What are you going to do with that information if you knew it and it was true? Though I really feel like you guys are assuming guilt here and will yet again be let down by another carrot on the stick.
edit on 19-9-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes we know your standard; if this goes on for years so what? It deosnt matter if it was started with corruption.

Again, I hope for your sake trump doesnt decide to use fisa warrants to spy on his opponents, resulting in multi year investigations that you are not allowed to question until its conclusion, or else you are muddying the waters.



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If there is wrongdoing regarding the fisa applications shouldn't we know now?

What are you going to do with that information if you knew it and it was true? Though I really feel like you guys are assuming guilt here and will yet again be let down by another carrot on the stick.

So you are now going with the side that even if they are doing wrong we should not know and should just sit down and shut up. Gotcha... I don't think so.



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 10:09 AM
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And remember everyone, the official anti trump talking point has been that had there been any real abuse that occurred, as president, trump would be allowed to declassify that proof to show us.

And as I predicted, we now have people saying that trump now doing just that is proof he is unethically involving himself in an investigation.

Just more proof that some people do not want to find out the truth.



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: Martin75

it is literally the only talking point they have left

they are now the anti transparency party



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes we know your standard; if this goes on for years so what? It deosnt matter if it was started with corruption.

See. This is why it's annoying discussing things with you guys. You reposition the argument to make it seem like if this ISN'T done then I don't support transparency. You've all made the leap of logic that this investigation is corrupt so justify at any length any precedent breaking data dumps on the investigation and dismiss concerns that a subject of this VERY investigation is spearheading those data dumps.


Again, I hope for your sake trump doesnt decide to use fisa warrants to spy on his opponents, resulting in multi year investigations that you are not allowed to question until its conclusion, or else you are muddying the waters.


Case in point. You hope for my sake? Why my sake? My sake has already been severely damaged thanks to you guys allowing these unprecedented actions hindering the DOJ's job all based on a flimsy conspiracy theory started by the subject of the investigation.

You may notice I keep stressing this subject of investigation point. That's because it is a critical component of my calculus on this issue. If Trump weren't at the center of this investigation and was saying that it was corrupt, I'd find that a bit more believable. As it stands, it looks just like a man who is scared of the walls of justice closing in on him is trying to discredit the DOJ by getting amateurs to spin the court of public opinion in his favor. THIS is why I advocate waiting for the investigation to end in THIS particular situation. My calculus on a different investigation my involve different desires on information dumps, and I would hope you don't try to assume my thinking is robotic based on what I say here.



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 10:13 AM
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originally posted by: Martin75

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If there is wrongdoing regarding the fisa applications shouldn't we know now?

What are you going to do with that information if you knew it and it was true? Though I really feel like you guys are assuming guilt here and will yet again be let down by another carrot on the stick.

So you are now going with the side that even if they are doing wrong we should not know and should just sit down and shut up. Gotcha... I don't think so.

I'm going with the idea that you guys are presenting a false equivalency that we go with transparency in this situation and if not I'm against transparency.



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Right so trump may accuse any opponent of anything , spy on them, and if that oppoenent cries foul or tries to have their allies release documents that shows the corruption, you would be against that because it would look shady, and demand the investigation go on for years if necessary with nothing being released.

remember, its not just trump wanting this info released, he is granting the request of people on the house intel committee.

Also, dont you find it just as troubling that the people being accused of potential being corrupt, some of which the independent IG has already said were biased and showed a willingness to act on that bias, have their own agencies or former agency controlling what is redacted or not?

And I wonder if given that we know Comeys hatred of trump, you were just as yupset about his selectove leaks to the press during an active investigation, and the fact that this directly led to the special counsel?



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 10:19 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

If you're all fo' transparency don't you want to find out if the warrants were legally obtained and the investigation is legit?

Because you said:


You've all made the leap of logic that this investigation is corrupt


And yet you've made this same leap that the investigation was LEGIT all the time.

Now we demand proof of the legitimacy of the warrants and we're the bad guys? Yea okay.



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: Grambler


Congressional Republicans asked for the FULL release on September 6th.
www.washingtonpost.com... 8e499_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6d9287bd7223

Also back on May 15th. Both Formal letters of request.

President Trump can override any redaction requests from his DOJ/FBI/Intel people.

edit on 9/19/2018 by carewemust because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 10:23 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Right so trump may accuse any opponent of anything , spy on them, and if that oppoenent cries foul or tries to have their allies release documents that shows the corruption, you would be against that because it would look shady, and demand the investigation go on for years if necessary with nothing being released.

Trump can accuse anyone of whatever he wants. He already does. It is the DOJ's job to investigate these things though. You never answered my question on why you believe Trump is an authority on government corruption.


remember, its not just trump wanting this info released, he is granting the request of people on the house intel committee.

Yes the House... The group of jackwagons that said there is nothing to the Trump investigation and closed it despite the Senate and Mueller investigations carrying on. The Mueller investigation has now resulted in jail time for people too. I really don't see the House intel committee as anything but a bunch of bootlickers to Trump. Devin Nunes is literally the poster child for shameless partisanism at this point.


Also, dont you find it just as troubling that the people being accused of potential being corrupt, some of which the independent IG has already said were biased and showed a willingness to act on that bias, have their own agencies or former agency controlling what is redacted or not?'

No. They all gave reasons on why those redactions are necessary. Why don't you believe them? BTW, all those reports talking about bias also said that there wasn't any reason to assume that bias affected their judgements with the investigations. Yet you left that detail out just now.


And I wonder if given that we know Comeys hatred of trump, you were just as yupset about his selectove leaks to the press during an active investigation, and the fact that this directly led to the special counsel?


Comey's hatred of Trump? Do you not remember October of 2016? Comey dropped a bombshell that many argue caused Clinton to lose the election. It is literally laughably insane to assume that Comey had it out for Trump regardless of whatever bias he had for the man.
edit on 19-9-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 10:28 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

It's such BS that we can't even see WHO signed the FISA requests? Did some Russians sign them? There is no national Security reason why we don't know who signed them.



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 10:28 AM
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originally posted by: vinifalou
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If you're all fo' transparency don't you want to find out if the warrants were legally obtained and the investigation is legit?

Because you said:

I know what I said. Do you care what I said? Because I've literally put many words onto the screen and in this thread about why I feel the way I do about this case.


And yet you've made this same leap that the investigation was LEGIT all the time.

Nope. I've said from the beginning of the thread to wait until the investigation is over and when we can reliably put all the cards on the table without endangering anything to come to a conclusion. I am highly SKEPTICAL of there being corruption because it is a very wild and outrageous claim that requires quite a bit of evidence, but I haven't ever said it was legit.


Now we demand proof of the legitimacy of the warrants and we're the bad guys? Yea okay.

Yes. Hindering an ongoing investigation usually results in obstruction of justice charges. Something that is illegal and gets people called "bad guys".



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

The only sources and methods that seem to keep being declassified are corrupt sources using corrupt methods. Those who corrupted our legal system don't deserve to be protected by redactions. Nor should the corrupt be considered reliable sources for future investigations, so naming the sources should not put any credible sources or methods at risk.



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Nope. I've said from the beginning of the thread to wait until the investigation is over


Ok. Consider for a moment you're the President and you KNOW the investigation was a set-up from the beginning, and you KNOW the FISA Warrants were illegally obtained.

Would you choose to keep going with the illegal investigation that already costed your country $20 million and lots of precious time lost?

I doubt so.


Yes. Hindering an ongoing investigation usually results in obstruction of justice charges.


Well, you say "hindering an ongoing investigation". I say "exposing a corrupt investigation".



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

How does releasing the evidence they had against Trump and his team to start an investigation hinder the investigation?

You do relize that in the US a defendant has a right to see all evidence that was used against him? Why does the president not have the same rights as a citizen.

Trump is not just asking for the evidence to be released to him, he is asking for total transparency. They have been working on the case for over a year. At this point there cannot be any evidence that was used to begin the investigation that has not been thoroughly explored by the Special Council.

Trump is not asking for the details of the ongoing investigation. He is simply asking for the evidence that lead to the investigation in the first place. Which is something every defendant in the US has a right to know, including the president.

People get away with crimes in this country when they can prove law enforcement violated their 4th amendment rights. You may not like the 4th amendment but it is part of our constitution. Trump has a right to know, and so does the real government of this country. "we the people"


edit on 19-9-2018 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2018 @ 11:18 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
The entire idea seems to be for Trump to try to release anything he can to the right wing media so they can tear it apart out of context and spin things to make the Deep State look real and vindicate Trump. It's a fishing expedition disguised as transparency.

And this is from the guy that promised to release his tax records but for some reason (cough...moneylaundering...cough) has not seen fit to pony-up.
Oh well, in the words of the Prophet...




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