What comes after Heaven or Hell

a reply to: trollz

Maybe spirits can only perceive spirits? Maybe in their world all there is is pure information and no sensation of sound or light at all? Since we seem to agree that "body" & "soul" are only connected for the living.
Maybe a dead soul has to attach to a living body-soul-unit to gather any information at all about what's going on in the world of matter?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: trollz

Maybe spirits can only perceive spirits? Maybe in their world all there is is pure information and no sensation of sound or light at all? Since we seem to agree that "body" & "soul" are only connected for the living.
Maybe a dead soul has to attach to a living body-soul-unit to gather any information at all about what's going on in the world of matter?

This is possible. Certain kinds of spirits likely perceive physical data much differently than the beings that reside in that particular dimension, but "differently" could very well mean in superior manner. For example, consider a computer program. You, the user, could see its interface and interact with it, while the programmer could look at its closed internal code and see the entire program and all of its functions in a way that you cannot. While the two things look entirely different, they are in fact the same. The programmer might not see the physical appearance of the program, but he sees its functions and purposes and understands what it is on a more detailed level.
I mentioned before that I think there are infinite variations of "heaven" and "hell" to which we go according to our spiritual state. I think some of these places are entirely physical, some are entirely nonphysical, and some are inbetween with some combination of both. Perhaps in some of these states of being, we can exist with bodies that perceive physical sensation in the same way we currently do, but are not likewise limited by various laws of physics - instant travel, bilocation, communication with mind rather than mouth, etc.
You brought up an interesting topic about dead souls attaching to living bodies in order to experience things the way we do. This would fall in line with "possession", where spirits who crave certain physical pleasures attach to and drive the host towards these activities in an attempt to experience them themselves. The problem is that certain spiritual states are not at all compatible with the physical mind and body. If a being that was in essence pure hatred attempted to merge with the body of a living human, it would likely result in insanity and physical degradation. This might be called demonic possession.

a reply to: trollz

I like your code analogy. Since for all we know the soul is after death of the body free from the limitations of matter, like time... that alone seems to be a huge thing to me, no longer bound by the chronology of material things unfolding. It would indeed be like you see why your "lifetime" was so full of this and that experience repeating itself.
And if you got on top of that the cravings of an 19th century opium smoker...
Huh, you really made me think here.
If you got the time I'd be curious what your thoughts are about this:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


*add: sorry the site has unsolved tablet issues, I'd love to but can't give you a star.

There is the "underworld", not a hell, but it always becomes one. This underworld is your conception-to-death space-time envelope and recording. Once you die you become a free time traveler, time-dwelling about within this envelope of all you were. You can't change it, though. You can impose impressions upon your still alive self which we today recognize as the "voice" of our conscience.

The goal is to install the escape Door in this envelope that all will enter upon death. Once through the Door (hopefully you are in possession of) and away from your finite living, the spirit adjoins to newness and expansion of consciousness at an infinite rate of progression, forever.

Maybe something that words cannot explain as we live in the 3rd dimension. Our understanding of reality is based on a 3rd dimensional set of rules, once we are free of this reality and all we have left is nothing, then it will all make sense. For now, enjoy the show, do what makes you feel good.

originally posted by: Peeple
If you got the time I'd be curious what your thoughts are about this:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I wrote a reply.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: trollz

A "spiritual body" is a rather absurde idea to me, something I simply can't imagine. The soul has no eyes that's a first hurdle where we already cross the physical with the spiritual.

When you're dreaming, your 'physical' eyes are closed, but you can still see things -

- in fact, you can experience every kind of physical sensation, while nothing at all is actually happening to you 'physically'...

...maybe that's how it works for the soul in the spiritual realms (afterlife)?

Maybe it's like having a 'dream' body in 'dream' places - all the 'physical' experience, but none of the actual physicality..

a reply to: lostgirl

But dreaming is not the same as dead, if I dream my physical brain is still diggesting the physical input it got from my physical senses. If I'm dead my brain is not working anymore.

originally posted by: dude1
If you view Heaven and Hell and soul correction with incarnations between , then

you start on earth and based on the state of your soul you go to the degree of Hell to correct it and then back to earth to correct there. Eventually you reach the highest Heaven in which case you either go to earth and then go the liberated state or straight to the liberated state.

The liberated state is when you no longer incarnate , there is a new earth with no defects in bodies or souls and one either stay happy there or go to be just part of the divine infinite , as an infinite expretion of god's will as a uniqueness or essence that distinguish you from the other ones and from god.


OR
there is no Heaven and Hell , and you gone.

Doesn't make any sense.

How would you correct yourself if you didn't know what you were correcting? Why would a Deity confine you to another body so you can fix your transgressions if you had no previous knowledge of your life before? This is why I can't believe in reincarnation. You have zero ability to understand or remember your previous life nor actions in that life if it did exist.

Same thing with being a worm in your next life, as per buddhism. Does the worm know and think? Can it reason? Can it do good or evil? How exactly does a worm get to the next stage? What about a lion? It's instincts are to eat and protect and own territory around it to keep itself protected. What if a man happens to walk by, the lion feels threatened so it attacks. Maybe it's hungry and attacks. How does a lion know good or evil? It only knows instinct.

Can one stand before God and say, "I want to be born into a poor man's life who is murdered savagely"? Or "I want to be a plague upon the world and murder the innocent. Make me Hitler".


That limits everything to 3 possibilities:

- Nothing (I just can't subscribe to this - as much as a relief it might be for those that feel they'll never make it to Heaven because the restrictions are just too high and the requirements are just too tough)

- Heaven for all (I don't think I've read this in the bible - Even the OT mentions a man in hell wanting water)

- Heaven or Hell (Most common based upon what the Bible says)

a reply to: DpatC

My personal theory on this subject matter goes pretty much way beyond what has already been written on this subject, although if you study, not just read through the couple of thousand Near Death Experience (N.D.E) reports that are easily found on the web and associate books, some very odd things and processes begin to emerge.

What I can say, based on my own personal research into this subject is..

The 'Afterlife', as commonly thought of, is indeed the continuation of all our 'existences', but not for the reasons we think it is. In very simplistic terms, It's a data collection repository of all 'life' on an unimaginable scale, which, has a single, specific purpose to it.

originally posted by: DpatC
I mean you die and than you get allocated to either Heaven or Hell. Is that it, is that the end of our journey?

Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.

a reply to: DpatC




I think you fly down a long tunnel towards a brilliant light. When you finally get there you see this:



GAME OVER. PLAY AGAIN?

a reply to: Parishna

Actually a fantastic summary...thank you for this. It is wonderful.

This really makes me wonder. A 2 year old boy in Louisiana started having nightmares - yelling in his sleep. His father wrote down what he was yelling and started doing research.

But he came to believe James was the reincarnation of a World War II fighter pilot; a man who had been shot down in his plane and struggled to escape as it caught fire

www.dailymail.co.uk...

If you don't believe in reincarnation, this story will make you wonder.

Whatever your little heart 💓 fantasizes.

Neverland.

Shambhala.

Shangri-la (not the hotel chain.)

White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.

Whatever your little heart 💓 fantasizes.

Neverland.

Shambhala.

Shangri-la (not the hotel chain.)

White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.

a reply to: EasternShadow

And Muslims.

Not sure if it is applied to Judaist, because Judaism teach different concept of Heaven and Earth. Plus there is a place called Sheol or Gehena, where the dead are thrown like rubbish.

Just a personal insight on my behalf.

I'm not a reader and just have a knack of going places and seeing stuff.

I have heard that there is a trend towards considering that the various religions have a common ground. Personally I doubt it.

Reason being is that American evangelical church buildings have a hell below them without pergatory. I wandered into one and the only deceased person there was not that bad a person and could have walked out on his own except for belief in his situation. That was an old and abandoned church.

The church of Rome in comparison has great grand affairs. Especially those churches that were built when the church was expanding into the new world. The practice of building a church on the pagan place of a deity. There must have been some really knowledgeable occultists in the church in those days for they trapped and enslaved the pagan deity in some locations and built the church around it.

I've seen where a landscape nature Being was trapped by the church. She was humanised and hurried in the ground up to her waist. Her upper half awareness was used for more spiritual practices. Her lower half was used to create the churches vision of hell. Nature Beings are very creative and her equivalent of a womb was invaded by priests. Not as punishment, but as a classroom on darker aspects of Christian magic.

So, from my point of view, the construction is the key point that suggests that there is not a common ground. Nor have I come across anything to suggest that there is only one Deus.

Just my two Bob's worth.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: DpatC
If you're talking Biblically, the only information we've got is that there is a choice between being in God's presence indefinitely and not being in God's presence.
There is no reason to look for anything "after" those conditions.

Oh there is plenty of reason to look "after"..God's presence and non presence are precisely what needs to be put to sleep...and something altogether new must be found.

God itself...whatever you want to call it has long since realized this almost unsolvable problem.

IS THERE MORE...CAN THERE BE.

THERE MUST BE....OR ELSE!!!

originally posted by: Parishna
Whatever there is, the you that you think you are is no more.

Imagine, if you can, what YOU were the very instant you were conceived. You were a thing without attachment. You were the purest you that you could be. It is life that builds us into what we know. Every interaction, experience, layered onto us, good and bad, that creates what we think of when we consider us. Yet, within us, there is still that innocent thing that came into this world. We just lose sight of it.

When we die, once more those layers of experience, interaction, attachment, are stripped away. We once more remember who that purest version of us. We don't look back with regret or fight it. Those events, experiences, interactions, that made us who we thought we were, are removed. We understand a complete lack of attachment. We rejoin the same space that we entered by.

what was before we were born, or after we die, is that question we can never know, till it is our time to stand before it once more.

Perhaps we enter into an vastness, so infinite that each of us there, is incapable of experiencing things beyond consciousness. Where in an attempt to experience, we, as tendrils reach down, like droplets to live and experience things...

Or perhaps we simply vanish. A fleeting moment, with nothing more.

Heaven and Hell are what we experience on earth. This organic thing. The calmness of death is the complete lack of anything. Only the knowing I.

I starred this for effort..but these thoughts you have were dissolved long Ago.

No pure form exists...no reason for being HERE other than to be used has ever been in this reality...or ANY OTHERS.

Impurity is part of every level..every dimension of Creation..the Universe...has been almost the entire time.

And they love it this way...the foolish Guardians.

Their time is coming to an end...no question as the Rest of Consciousness has decided they must be removed...and new things or no things will be next.

originally posted by: ParasuvO
Oh there is plenty of reason to look "after"..God's presence and non presence are precisely what needs to be put to sleep...and something altogether new must be found.

I wasn't answerung the question in terms of what "needs" to happen or what "must" happen (acccording to our own preferences).
In fact our own preferences have no relevance to knowing what does or will happen,
I was answering the question in terms of what could be known from the information available.