Creating a verifiable "deposition" with proof of date - notary or digitally signed?

Very difficult issue to write a title/subject for, don't know how to explain it exactly.

So someone has something they need to document and have proof when they are telling the story and that it isn't being made up at a later date. Going to the police or attorney really isn't an option and telling other people is not in the cards either. The only thing I can think of is typing/printing the story out and having a notary stamp each page, but IDK if that would be sufficient.

I'd like a way to do it electronically, like if there is a way to create a Word doc, PDF, etc and have it digitally signed and dated (signature isn't necessary but could be helpful). I just don't know if things like this can be altered or if they would be seen as inadequate to prove a time frame of the creation of the document.

I was thinking a good way would be to create a PDF, encrypt it and put it online somewhere where it will be continually hosted/stored/backed up, so if 10 years from now it will show that the file was originally uploaded 10 years ago, and if it is disputed, it should be able to be proven by it being on old backups (if they still exist).

Can anyone think of a good way to do this?

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Can anyone think of a good way to do this?

E-mail?

You can digitally sign any document (other than the basic ones such as a notepad)
You just need an application that creates a digital signature (the date can be included)
I think there are several online apps that can.

Google (or any other search engine) is your friend

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Put it in an envelope sealed of course and mail it to yourself. The postmark has date and time and as long as its sealed, provides proof. Also known as a poor man's copyright

Those are good ideas. Thanks! Having more than one document or proof was kind of what I was looking for and I think some of these will work for what is needed. Thanks again.

I think encrypting a signed document and emailing it to myself would be a decent way to do this as well as the post office/mail idea - also a lot less expensive than having to deal with an attorney or notary.

originally posted by: DJMSN
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Put it in an envelope sealed of course and mail it to yourself. The postmark has date and time and as long as its sealed, provides proof. Also known as a poor man's copyright

Joe Elliot, the singer for British pop-metal band Def Leppard, did this.
In 88/89, he was sued about writing/recording a song on thier album ''Hysteria'', by some never has been band that recorded 1 album and played 10 shows, over the song ''Love Bites'.

He sent himself the lyrics and music in 1982, this band claimed it mimiced thier 1985 song.

The judge didnt accept the ideal. JE paid the other band something like 100k in 1991 USD.

Judge said it wasnt a copyright.

The notary idea is a good start.
It would be even better if they were witness to the events as well. So they can "verify" that each page is true.

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
Very difficult issue to write a title/subject for, don't know how to explain it exactly.

So someone has something they need to document and have proof when they are telling the story and that it isn't being made up at a later date. Going to the police or attorney really isn't an option and telling other people is not in the cards either. The only thing I can think of is typing/printing the story out and having a notary stamp each page, but IDK if that would be sufficient.

I'd like a way to do it electronically, like if there is a way to create a Word doc, PDF, etc and have it digitally signed and dated (signature isn't necessary but could be helpful). I just don't know if things like this can be altered or if they would be seen as inadequate to prove a time frame of the creation of the document.

I was thinking a good way would be to create a PDF, encrypt it and put it online somewhere where it will be continually hosted/stored/backed up, so if 10 years from now it will show that the file was originally uploaded 10 years ago, and if it is disputed, it should be able to be proven by it being on old backups (if they still exist).

Can anyone think of a good way to do this?

Copyright thru the U.S.Copyright Office....or poor man's version...sign and date, seal and mail it to yourself unopened...postmark date is your verification.(This has not always stood up in a court of law though).

MS

120+ US Copyrights owner
Music, Literary

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

No. You're going to have to get off the chair for this one. You need a notary and a witness.

a reply to: Brywilson2

I didn't say it was a copy right as it is not. It does provide a time line, but does not establish originality.

I have interviewed Joe Elliot several times during my radio career, the last time back in 2006. He was on the Leppard tour bus, playing Madden while we talked. He was working with Donny Osmond on an album at the time and it was an interesting convo.

A very cool guy to talk with. I would be interested in reading about the case you are talking about but have not found anything. If you have a link, please post it so I can see what happened. The UK Patent Office recommends the mail system this way.

Alternatively, a creator could send himself or herself a copy by special delivery post (which gives a clear date stamp on the envelope), leaving the envelope unopened on its return.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

No US case law that establishes the mail as an exception to copy right registration but does establish a legal date of possesion.

Registration with the US Copy Right Office is not required to establish a copy right, only that an individual can establish authorship, originality is a whole other ball game.

originally posted by: DJMSN
a reply to: Brywilson2

I didn't say it was a copy right as it is not. It does provide a time line, but does not establish originality.

I have interviewed Joe Elliot several times during my radio career, the last time back in 2006. He was on the Leppard tour bus, playing Madden while we talked. He was working with Donny Osmond on an album at the time and it was an interesting convo.

A very cool guy to talk with. I would be interested in reading about the case you are talking about but have not found anything. If you have a link, please post it so I can see what happened. The UK Patent Office recommends the mail system this way.

Alternatively, a creator could send himself or herself a copy by special delivery post (which gives a clear date stamp on the envelope), leaving the envelope unopened on its return.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

No US case law that establishes the mail as an exception to copy right registration but does establish a legal date of possesion.

Registration with the US Copy Right Office is not required to establish a copy right, only that an individual can establish authorship, originality is a whole other ball game.

You are correct. For years the "mail it to yourself" was adequate...then in the mid-1960's it was getting tricky w thefts of original works.

My 1st US copyright was reg. in 1969. Some years back....the Register of Copyrights...overwhelmed by everyone, everywhere wanting to copyright everything no matter what...began suggesting the poor man's version as basic protection. Then they backtracked.

My works and my group's..w 11 top 10's...have been under Sony and Universal dist. for 30 some years....and major label or major publishing and distributorship requires international copyrights.

I recv quarterly royalties to this day and some works have been in TV and motion pictures.

The average person with this thread's original notation/work/whichever...I'd say at minimum, notarize their thoughts.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

As a professional, it would be a no brainer to get the attorney and officially register a copy right. I am sure Sony and Universal took steps necessary to establish ownership before even recording begin.

The US Copy right law is sorely behind the times with the last update in 1998 essentially to protect the original copy right for Disney character Mickey Mouse.

The poster spoke of Def Leppard who famously circumvented copy rights by reproducing their original music as digital covers and avoiding the original copy rights held by publisher Universal.

The rerecorded every release and paid a royalty fee and then released everything digitally and essentially cut Universal out of any digital royalties other than the established for covers which I am sure is far less than what they would have obtained otherwise. An interesting case. I bet that clause is now absent from contracts.


ipwhiteboard.com.au...

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

You write out what you want to say, bring it to a notary, have all the signatures, then put it in a bank safety deposit box or with a lawyer.

a reply to: DJMSN

We spend an astronomical amount of $$$ to lawyers in N.Y., L.A., London and Hamburg yearly....Trademark attorney is the worst...so we don't have to deal with this any longer...except some YouTube removals which Y.T. is pretty good and quick to remove.

I've said it before...when we wrote songs? We never anticipated the digital age and all it would imply.

I do think a one-time "I wrote this"-originator c.right should be where it's going. Then, let it fly to the masses.

Thanks for your concise replies!:Best, MS