Suicide and the consequences thereof

Thank you to all who participated in this thread, it's not an easy thing to talk about but that doesn't mean we shouldn't.

Thank you one and all.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

I am not sorry either it wasnt palatable . especially thinking it has no consequences.

......

a reply to: LightSpeedDriver

There's a documentary film about Golden Gate jumpers that's either banned or very hard to find. I watched it a few years ago. A surviving jumper described being kept alive by a seal until rescuers arrived. Imagine that? I'd read the account years earlier and doubted it. Here was the guy on film telling the same story and family confirming he'd done the jump.

It's a beautiful image and makes me wonder about life and possibilities.

A lot of them change their mind on the way down. In fact, nearly all jump survivors (who've been asked) say they regretted the decision midway to the ground or the water. Quite a few have described spiritual weirdness too like feelings of being protected or hearing a voice telling them they'd be OK.

I'm not going to watch the video because it's a sensitive subject for me. Reasons. On top of that it's barely three months since a friend did it and, no idea why, I haven't gotten past it yet.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: LightSpeedDriver

There's a documentary film about Golden Gate jumpers that's either banned or very hard to find. I watched it a few years ago. A surviving jumper described being kept alive by a seal until rescuers arrived. Imagine that? I'd read the account years earlier and doubted it. Here was the guy on film telling the same story and family confirming he'd done the jump.

It's a beautiful image and makes me wonder about life and possibilities.

A lot of them change their mind on the way down. In fact, nearly all jump survivors (who've been asked) say they regretted the decision midway to the ground or the water. Quite a few have described spiritual weirdness too like feelings of being protected or hearing a voice telling them they'd be OK.

I'm not going to watch the video because it's a sensitive subject for me. Reasons. On top of that it's barely three months since a friend did it and, no idea why, I haven't gotten past it yet.

I've seen it. And like I said. Nobody should ever feel like they need to jump of a damn bridge to get out of a horrible life, whatever their reasons. If someone is that far gone that they feel like jumping off a bridge is their only option, I'm not here to second guess them. I can't know what their life is like. But my thing is that it's just unbearable to think that someone HAS to do something like that if they're at that place. No one should have a final scene like that at the end of their life. Is that fair enough?

And obviously if someone jumps off a damn bridge they're going to be #ting their pants on the way down. Which does not mean anything other than the fact that falling through the air on your way to the bottom of a bridge is scary AF and the way the fight or flight thing works is going to do what it does and make you feel like you shouldn't have done that. Obviously, they shouldn't have because they shouldn't have had to. Just like you shouldn't have to shower with ice water to get clean.

Obviously, none of this means those people would not want to die peacefully and painlessly if the option were available. It's like when people who are terrified of roller coasters get on a roller coaster anyway because they want to ride it but are still scared. No matter how bad you wanted to ride it, you're going to be #ting your pants on the way up and down.

Anyway, physician assisted suicide should be legal everywhere and should be available to everyone. Obviously, no doctor should be forced to participate in it if they don't believe in it. I have a feeling a lot of doctors would very obviously be all for it. Especially in terminal cases where the person has nothing left to do but lay there and suffer until they die. Might take days or weeks. But it's usually not a totally awesome thing for their family or (especially) them. It's embarrassing that we still put people through this in 2018 when we have had the capacity to make that not happen for decades.

That's it right there. That is everything that is wrong with Western society contained in that one little thought. At the end of the day, the thoughts, feelings, wishes of the individual will always be disregarded in situations like this. Right or wrong.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

there has been times in my life the pain was unbearable, i wanted to die.i looked for a legit way to do it. i dont like illegitame ways. but governments dont allow it hardly some do in health conditions, religion dont allow it as well. I begged and begged and wasted myself to find the right way to make it. I failed. there was no legit way. when all else fails, trust your government, trust your religion and wait and complain if you must and sure i did. talk to your local priest write to your government, go mad at social media. somebody always hears you.

in and of itself you ll find out you are trying to end the pain. Pain is not trying to end you. it is simply becoming you.

originally posted by: Damla
a reply to: BrianFlanders

there has been times in my life the pain was unbearable, i wanted to die.i looked for a legit way to do it. i dont like illegitame ways. but governments dont allow it hardly some do in health conditions, religion dont allow it as well. I begged and begged and wasted myself to find the right way to make it. I failed. there was no legit way. when all else fails, trust your government, trust your religion and wait and complain if you must and sure i did. talk to your local priest write to your government, go mad at social media. somebody always hears you.

You're irritating me.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

what can i do to make you feel better? wanna write to me about it? i have so much spare time. I ll read them all.

originally posted by: Damla
in and of itself you ll find out you are trying to end the pain. Pain is not trying to end you. it is simply becoming you.

Eckhart Tolle contemplated suicide many times........the last time the words 'I cannot live with myself any longer' appeared in mind he HEARD them and questioned.....how many of me are there? Who is this 'I' that cannot live with 'myself'?
When he awoke in the morning his depression and anxiousness had lifted away and he awoke to the sound of the birds and the sunlight streaming through the window.

He spent years trying to understand what had happened and now shares.
He is the author of 'The Power of Now'.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

and the same person who said, i lived with many zen masters all of them are cats.

a reply to: Damla

“Most of us live in a world of mental abstraction, conceptualization, and image making – a world of thought. We are immersed in a continuous stream of mental noise. It seems that we can’t stop thinking”

“It’s so wonderful to watch an animal, because an animal has no opinion about itself. it is”.

“I have lived with many Zen masters, all of them cats”
Tolle

Could it be that people kill themselves because they want to get away from that voice in their heads?

The trouble with language is that once it has been installed....it never stops.......even when there's no one around to talk to the talking just goes on and on.
Who is it talking to or who is it talking about?

a reply to: BrianFlanders

I agree with the physician assisted suicides with one serious caveat. It needs to be handled slowly and professionally with counselling and support. There was a point in my life when I looked into it and would have done it if I'd met the criteria. I'm constantly relieved that I'm still here and unnerved by the possibility it could happen again.

Despite that, I resent the State and especially politicians who dictate laws based on their own ideology or personal morality. It's an abomination when they prevent doctors from putting people out of their misery. UK politicians have forced people with 'locked in syndrome' to carry on living when they've been begging for death for years. It's so arrogant and lacking in empathy.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Physicians are the key here in NL. Patients must be terminally ill to qualify and must be assessed by 2 doctors first. On the surface it is not a deeply religious country any more (think coffeeshops, drugs in general, prostitution, etc) but the churches do exert a lot of influence on politics. I'm not sure about the UK having left there 2 and a half decades ago but I would guess it's more or less the same.

Thou shalt not kill thyself even in troubling, painful and hopeless times.

a reply to: LightSpeedDriver

Thanks for that. I thought NL was more non-religious than other European countries so I've learned something new.

Our last PM, Cameron, opposed the medical consensus to allow legal euthanasia/assisted dying. He's an evangelical Christian and decided, in his hubris, that his own personal values outweighed terminal illness, doctors and sufferers. In contrast, even the Archbishop of Canterbury agreed with assisted dying and said without it we were fostering "needless suffering."

There's a quote about the "the arc of the moral universe will inevitably bend toward justice." I believe assisted dying will become available in more western countries in the next decade. Partly by fairness and mainly by necessity. We've got this growing population of elderly people and it'll soon become expensive keeping more and more people alive when they've had enough and have no life quality. It's funny how economics can cause people to adjust their moral values.

a reply to: LightSpeedDriver

Thank you L S D for starting this thread.
I have a lot of thoughts but, they are jumbled at the moment as you know...this hits close to home.

I may digest it some and return. It DOES need to be discussed and the answers are not clear.

a reply to: TinySickTears

but if people want to kill themselves cause it is wednesday i say have at it

the reason one just cannot and there are laws that could get one in trouble (not trouble but in a situation where the state dictates your life) if they attempt but fail is because of whats involved with the death of a person.


Many people involved.

If you can organize so it doesn't affect anyone then I agree you should be free to live and end your life as you please.

a reply to: LightSpeedDriver

You sound cold, selfish and heartless unless it concerns YOU. Just an observation.

Simply because they feel ones life and how one wishes to end it should be ones own choice?


I guess such freedom is scary to the majority.