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Discovery of a Dark Matter Galaxy!!!

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posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 04:18 PM
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A Million Here, A Million There


From the source article:

It was found 50 million light years away using radio telescopes in Cheshire and Puerto Rico.

That is as opposed to 50 light years away.

I thought that was a bit close, too.


As for this galaxy-sized mass, it will be very interesting to see what else is discovered about it.

I'm sure it has some secrets to teach us.




posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by Majic
A Million Here, A Million There


From the source article:
It was found 50 million light years away using radio telescopes in Cheshire and Puerto Rico.

That is as opposed to 50 light years away.

I thought that was a bit close, too.



Whoops!

Yeah, that'd make a bit more sense. I was wondering about that myself, but then figured "Dah!... It's Dark Matter! It can be close, I guess..."

But yeah, 50 million light years away would be a lot less...intimidating.

I don't guess we'll be travelling there anytime in the next few generations.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 06:10 PM
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Incr-e-e-e-e-edible to say the least!

I've pondered the question of dark-matter for years and couldn't wait to see the discoveries made by astronomers!

They knew it had to be there, but where?

Of course it's hard to see something when you can't see it.

Great find thelibra!



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 09:28 PM
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Thank you, to everyone who complimented the post.

If anyone here has a better physics background than I, perhaps they could "shed some light" on the subject of dark matter. Though I find it fascinating, most of the material I find is buried in equations I simply do not understand yet.

In layman's terms, what is dark matter, and what is the benefit from it that we might see? Could it, perhaps, be tapped for energy? Is this the "phlogiston" that some feel might produce zero-point energy? Anyone know?



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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I am no expert on the subject, but I doubt we can find one either.

From what I know Dark Matter is a name for the matter in the universe that is not visible. Everything we can see is being centered by gravity. Somethings in the universe are moving but we cant see why. Not with light based vision.

Why is it that if gravity attracts everything yet the universe expands?
Dark Matter.

It is something that is having a gravitational pull that we cant see.

Feel free to correct me. Dark Matter is a lengthly subject I can't wrap my head around it.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:06 PM
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I believe "dark matter" is a term attributed to a variable, as our current theories had some "dark areas" that couldn't be accounted for. There actually isn't a definition for dark matter beyond "that which must be there."

Correct me if I'm wrong



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:17 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this thread will at least have 7 pages.
Heh, if someone asked me to prove there is Dark Matter I would be screwed.

I'll paste this up for people to read.



The story of dark matter is best divided into two parts. First we have the reasons that we know that it exists. Second is the collection of possible explanations as to what it is.
math.ucr.edu...


What is Dark Matter? I don't know. I only know it exists.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:39 PM
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I'm certainly not an expert on dark matter. I have speculated though what if out of all the galaxies of regular matter that there could be some made of anti-matter? This would assume I believe that anti-hydrogen, etc. were able to fuse together like regular matter to form larger atoms, etc. until you had anti-matter stars and planets. Of course one might argue that an anti-matter star would still radiate. That's where my knowledge really fars apart because I wonder if regular photons would be emitted or something else. If regular photons were emitted, then how would we know it was an anti-matter star in the first place?

On the other hand, the dark matter could be just a very large mass of gas with no light source that never had a reason to condense to form stars and a galaxy as we know it.

Good find



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:41 PM
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I believe dark matter is a name we give a lot of things that basically just don't follow our laws of physics. I would bet some day (probly not soon unfortunantly) "dark matter" will have dozens of different sub-catagories as we discover what it actually is. However, for now some of our equations just don't make sense and to make them make sense we plug in "dark matter" as a variable basically.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by Mozo
I would bet some day (probly not soon unfortunantly) "dark matter" will have dozens of different sub-catagories as we discover what it actually is.


I'll agree with that statement. I believe it wouldn't be too far a stretch if someone substituted the word dark with unknown. Scientists have discovered a galaxy of unknown matter. I believe that is a true statement. Since we observe space via light, dark matter is difficult to study I would imagine.

Another possibility I thought I read somewhere is the possibility that this dark matter is not actually in our universe but in a parallel dimension or alternate universe. The gravity is leaking into our universe but we can't see what is causing the gravity effects. Therefore we call it dark matter. I bet there are a lot of theories out there about what is dark matter.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 01:00 AM
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Nothing really exotic or mysterious about this "dark matter" galaxy as its just gas that does not have a sun yet to create light.

They dont think it has enough fuel to start a star.

If this is all that Dark matter is then its not very exciting heh. I had an old friend that used to do something with methane and a cigarete lighter that was more exciting hehe.

X



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 06:36 AM
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Right, so, basically, this is like a normal galaxy, except no stars?



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 06:51 AM
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Ooh, and being a physicist I guess I could help here, basically, there's very little to learn about dark matter. It is thought to exist because of the observation of rotation curves of galaxies. Normally you would expect the outer layers of a rotating body to be moving slower than the inner layers, as they are further from the centre of mass and thus feel less gravitational attraction. But for some reason, the outer layers are travelling the same speeds as the inner layers.



From this we can infer that there is more mass in the outer layers of a galaxy, and this mass is increasing with radius. Bizzare huh? So essentially there must be somesort of invisible "dark matter" that is holding these galaxies together, as from what we can see, they should be flinging themselves out across the universe.

Also, this problem also occurs with galaxy clusters and super clusters, somehow all these galaxies are rotating around each other at incredible speeds yet are gravitationally bound. From these observations it would appear that there must be 100 times more mass in a super cluster than that which is visible.

And that is all we know. Literally. Bizzare huh? It's completely undetectable apart from it's gravitational effects. Hence my earlier post, as all galaxies appear to contain dark matter, although they contain stars as well as the hydrogen detected.

[edit on 24/2/2005 by Slashpepper]



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 08:39 AM
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I may be off base here, but I think it's misleading to use the word "INVISIBLE". This matter is matter that we have not yet seen, or been able to observe using current methods. Does that mean that if we had a bowl of dark matter, we would only see the bowl, appearing as though it were empty. I'm doubtfull that it works that way. If there were a powerful light source behind this Dark Galaxy, would it be silohuetted against said light? Is Dark Matter actually transparent? If I'm not mistaken, It's only called Dark Matter because we can only view light, not the absence of light, and since it either absorbs all light or somehow does not reflect it, the astronomers called it Dark Matter for lack of a better term. Do we really know anything at all about Dark Matter besides the fact that it appears to have mass?



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 10:00 AM
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If I'm to understand properly, Dark Matter isn't tangible. It's not that it's invisible, or that it doesn't reflect visible light, but rather that items in the vicinity of it react as if there were matter there, when there's apparently there at all.

Again, I suggest the "paper/magnet/iron filings" example. If all "real matter" is on the side of the paper facing us, and a magnet is underneath the paper, it's not that the magnet is invisible, or even able to be touched. However, the existance of the magnet can be observed when one dumps some iron filings on the paper, and watch how they line up according to the polarity.

Now imagine that you had no idea there was a magnet, or indeed that there was even a paper. Your entire ability to perceive the universe is limited to the observation of things on your side of the paper. Because of the reaction of the iron filings, you know there has to be something else there, but cannot see it, touch it, or find it.

Now replace iron filings with hydrogen gas, magnetism with gravity, and paper with background radiation.

Someone suggested that Dark Matter may exist in an alternate universe. This would seem a plausible explanation, and certainly one to keep in mind, but I believe there might be another explanation, now that I have a better understanding of what Dark Matter, or at least the theory of it, is.

Please keep in mind, I could be totally wrong here, I'm simply connecting Point A to Point B with a logical string.

Posit 1: Waves require a medium (some form of matter) in order to travel from Point A to Point B.

Posit 2: A true vaccuum would be devoid of a medium for waveforms to travel through.

Paradox: Space is supposedly a true vaccuum. It should not be possible for waveforms to travel through outer space. Yet they do. Light, exhibits properties of both a wave and a particle. Gravity exhibits properties of a wave as well.

Result: Studies attempting to explain this phenomenon lead to many new theories, such as Zero Point Energy and some old theories begining to see a new light, such as the New Ether Theory, to suggest that there is an "unseen medium" that does actually exist. That space is not truly a vaccuum, or at least not truly empty.

Conclusion: It would appear to me that Dark Matter, New Ether Theory, and Zero Point Energy Fields are all quite possibly related, if not the same exact entity. So, it may not be that Dark Matter is in another Universe or Diminsion, but rather is more of a...universal "glue" with variable density throughout space.

Any thoughts on this?

[edit on 2/24/2005 by thelibra]



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 10:17 AM
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thelibra, I like your comparison of a magnet under a paper to Dark Matter.
The Magnet we can't see can be many things, a brown dwarf, the discovered dark galaxy, planets and rock that are not close to a star to be visible. I conceder these things to be invisible. After all the air we breath is invisible unless we use a different way to see it, like heat vision.

I'm pretty sure we can all talk about this forever and I would not mind that.
Dark matter is a pretty open subject and almost everything said so far on the board is 'true' to what dark matter is. Until joining ATS I had only heard of dark matter but I knew nothing about it. Even since my first post on this thread I have learned a lot on the subject.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 10:57 AM
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Thanks, Thelibra, for your explination,.....It does help me to get a better understanding of what's going on here. It seems likely to me that if the dark matter actually exists, it must exist in a higher dimension, revealing itself as detectable force, but not as actual physical mass as it were. This is inline with other observable phenomena that behave similarly.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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Thanks for the clarifications to my questions peoples.

If dark matter is confusing, dark energy should be even more confusing. And atop of that, there is the mysterious and highly theoretical 'quintessence' or 'fifth element' that makes up existence.

So much like how the electromagnetic spectrum is huge, with a tiny part comprising visible light, the stuff of the universe is vast, with only a small part being baryonic matter, another part energy, a larger part dark matter, a larger part 'dark energy' , and, if i understand correctly, another larger part being this quintessence.

It's like the old adage tht the universe is a beach, and we're playing with but one pretty shell from that beach.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 01:11 PM
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Technically this isnt a galaxy, since a galaxy is a cluster of stars.. This is just a big 'soup' of dark matter.

But interesting, oh yes.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
And atop of that, there is the mysterious and highly theoretical 'quintessence' or 'fifth element' that makes up existence.


Well, I'm not so sure I'd give "The Fifth Element" any more scientific value than I'd ascribe to something like, say "Heaven" or "The Spirit World." The standard 4 Elements: Earth, Air, Fire, and Water, were merely early alchemical attempts to break all things down into component parts. Since then we've discovered things like Atoms and Subatomic Particles. Other cultures have done this as well, such as certain African tribes, only have three (earth, plant, and animal), or the Chinese Elements (Water, Earth, Wood, Metal and Fire).

So, the matter of philosophical elements is really just earlier attempts at categorizing what other things were made of.



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