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Discovery of a Dark Matter Galaxy!!!

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posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 10:53 AM
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This is amazing...

Astronomers have found a Galaxy Made of Dark Matter, about 50 light years away, using radio telescopes in Cheshire and Puerto Rico. The Galaxy, which does not appear to contain a single star, has been dubbed VIRGOHI21, due to its proximity to Virgo. It is claimed to be the first such galaxy detected.

According to Doctor Robert Minchin (Cardiff University), "If it were an ordinary galaxy, then it should be quite bright and would be visible with a good amateur telescope."

For those wishing to view the more technical side of this discovery, check out the Cardiff University page on this. Additionally, the research paper on two isolated HI clouds can be found here.




posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:11 AM
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amazing...

niiice thread...

i wonder what would happin if we went through the galaxy???

would we crash???





posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by they see ALL
amazing...

niiice thread...

i wonder what would happin if we went through the galaxy???

would we crash???




Thank you... apparently I was just a tad bit too late, but didn't see the ATSN news link at the time of posting...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Mods, feel free to close the thread in lieu of the other...



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by thelibra
Thank you... apparently I was just a tad bit too late, but didn't see the ATSN news link at the time of posting...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Mods, feel free to close the thread in lieu of the other...


It's ok thelibra, I believe you can have an ATSNN story and an ATS thread on the same subject anyway (unless that's changed). You've got more in depth articles on the matter anyway so I'll link this thread in the story.


[edit on 23-2-2005 by John Nada]



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:22 AM
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Don't worry about it libra, policy allows for simultaneous ATSNN/ATS threads. Good find........does it state in any way the density of the dark matter galaxy as opposed to what we would call a run of the mill galaxy(based on our home)?

Edit: John Nada got his post in a minute before mine..........seems to be a theme here.......


[edit on 23-2-2005 by MemoryShock]



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:30 AM
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That is amazing. I would of never thought a galaxy could form without stars. Things must be so different there, I hope to see more reports on it.
Maybe now we will find out the secret of Dark Matter.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:43 AM
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Well, groovy.... onwards, I suppose?

In answer to MemoryShock's question, it would appear that, per the first article:



"In the Virgo cluster of galaxies, they found a mass of hydrogen atoms a hundred million times the mass of the Sun." and "From its speed, we realised that VIRGOHI21 was a thousand times more massive than could be accounted for by the observed hydrogen atoms alone.".


So this would appear to be sufficient mass to comprise a galaxy, albeit a relatively small one. Previous finds have shown these sorts of areas to be the remnants of galaxies colliding, but in this instance, there were no galaxies or stars close enough to suggest such a thing.

What amazes me is how close this object is. Granted we wouldn't be able to travel there within our lifetime (short of some FTL drive invention or gateway), but this shows up close enough to be within SETI's sphere of detection. I'd love to have those radio telescopes pointed towards it and see what we can find as a result. That, and because of the proximity, and easy observance, we may be able to study dark matter a lot more reliably than before.

This is a very exciting time, but I suspect the real excitement will come when we can send a probe of some sort into VIRGOHI21, perhaps when our Grandchildren are old and gray.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by thelibra
That, and because of the proximity, and easy observance, we may be able to study dark matter a lot more reliably than before.


This is a very exciting find.......a chance to learn more about dark matter could realistically open the flood gates into other mysteries of our universe.........I'm very curious as to the orbital behaviours in the galaxy and other gravitational aspects......also, if these types ofoccurances are the result of galaxy collisions, maybe it would be an indicator of the age of this VIRGOHI21. I'm just tossing out ideas..........



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by thelibra
... but this shows up close enough to be within SETI's sphere of detection. I'd love to have those radio telescopes pointed towards it and see what we can find as a result. That, and because of the proximity, and easy observance, we may be able to study dark matter a lot more reliably than before.


Well the article did say that one of the radio telescopes that first detected it was in Puerto Rico. The only dish I know of there is Arecibo, which is what SETI uses for its searches.


And this is friggen fantastic. I'll be looking forward for more developments on this. It seems like dark matter is being found left and right recently!



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
It seems like dark matter is being found left and right recently!


Which gets me wondering:

With all this dark matter being found recently, does it mean that the amount of dark matter is increasing, or just that our methods of finding it have improved?




posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
It seems like dark matter is being found left and right recently!


Which gets me wondering:

With all this dark matter being found recently, does it mean that the amount of dark matter is increasing, or just that our methods of finding it have improved?



Our methods, techniques and hardware has improved. Has Arecibo undergone any upgrades recently??



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 01:29 PM
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1. you get way above vote from me
2. wow
3. wow
4. amazing
5. wow

as you can see, i am blown away.

has anyone ever read 'requim for homosapiens'?
it is a 4 part series of novels (sci-fi) by david zindell and all i can say is OMFG its the VILD.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 02:04 PM
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What?

What the heck, an entire galaxy made up of dark matter?

I am uniformed or is 50 light years way to close?



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 02:14 PM
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I'm confused, dark matter, its different from 'baryonic' or regular matter, yet this galaxy is detected via radio emissions, caused by hydrogen gas. So is this dark galaxy composed solely of hydrogen gas, not dark matter? Or is dark matter just baryonic matter that is difficult/immposible to see because its diffuse and unlit?

Or are they saying this galaxy is in bulk composed of exotic dark matter, and swirling within it, trapped in it, is hydrogen gas, that is emiting radio waves?

edit to add
are there then 'dark matter' equivalents of baryonic matter? Like 'dark hydrogen' and 'dark carbon' etc, as with anti-matter? or is it unknown?

[edit on 23-2-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by sardion2000
Our methods, techniques and hardware has improved. Has Arecibo undergone any upgrades recently??


Per the latest issue of the Arecibo Newsletter, the following updates have occurred:


  • New office to promote Observatory education and outreach initiatives.

  • New Observatory director (Daniel Altschuler has become the founding directory of the Observatory Office for Public Understanding of Science aka OPUS. The new directory is Sixto Gonzalez) and management structure.

  • NewTwo new receiver systems made available to users, including an ALFA (Arecibo L-band Feed Array) multibeam receiver. The ALFA is a seven feed, 14 channel system that will provide unprecedented sensitivity and speed for sky surveys.


There's more, of course, but that's the meat of the actual updates.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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That is an interesting find. An entire galaxy made up of dark matter. I don't know that much about the subject, but it is still pretty interesting that the galaxy contains no stars and was found using radio telescopes. I didn't even know what radio telescopes were until now.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
I'm confused, dark matter, its different from 'baryonic' or regular matter, yet this galaxy is detected via radio emissions, caused by hydrogen gas. So is this dark galaxy composed solely of hydrogen gas, not dark matter? Or is dark matter just baryonic matter that is difficult/immposible to see because its diffuse and unlit?

Or are they saying this galaxy is in bulk composed of exotic dark matter, and swirling within it, trapped in it, is hydrogen gas, that is emiting radio waves?

edit to add
are there then 'dark matter' equivalents of baryonic matter? Like 'dark hydrogen' and 'dark carbon' etc, as with anti-matter? or is it unknown?

[edit on 23-2-2005 by Nygdan]


Errr... I don't think the Hydrogen gas is actually part of the dark matter, but rather is normal baryonic matter that has been attracted to the gravity of the Dark Matter, and then shows up under certain spectrums of electromagnetic radiation on radio telescopes.

So it'd be more like if you placed a magnet under a sheet of paper, then put some iron filings on the other side of the paper. Technically, you can't see the magnet, but are able to tell it's there because of the reaction of the iron filings on the other side.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 02:55 PM
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As I understand the story they have found the dark matter through the "normal" hydrogen that surrounds it?

Well, we can presume dark matter is not like antimatter because that would have given some gamma ray flashes as it collides with the hydrogen atoms, also something is preventing the hydrogen atoms from contracting and become stars. No black holes either cause that would produce a heated accretion disk around it.

Either the gravity of dark matter is smaller or the repulsing Coulomb force is stronger, I suspect the latter as they have estimate the cluster to be thousand times heavier than size suggests....

Hopefully closely watched interactions of the hydrogen with the darkmatter will give us more clues...


[edit on 23-2-2005 by Countermeasures]



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by thelibra

In answer to MemoryShock's question, it would appear that, per the first article:



"In the Virgo cluster of galaxies, they found a mass of hydrogen atoms a hundred million times the mass of the Sun." and "From its speed, we realised that VIRGOHI21 was a thousand times more massive than could be accounted for by the observed hydrogen atoms alone.".




yo, Nygdan
i believe the key phrase is the bold type 'From its speed...
which is a 'derivitive' in the scientific logic of normal physics....

as in: the speed of that galaxy could only be accounted for
by its having more mass !,
then, since no mass was observable (baryonic material) the insinuation is:
its a dark-matter object (galaxy sized no less)

i'm not sure Dark Matter operates within the laws of ordinary physics



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 03:21 PM
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Wow...truly bizarre...good find!

Wish I could say more, but still reading on this...nice to have your mind blown now and then....



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