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The coming price hike of electricity & natural gas in the US

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posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 08:01 AM
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So when the "Fracking" boom hit, much of the US was flooded with cheap natural gas and there was a HUGE push to convert coal plants to use NG because it was "greener" both in burning and in mining/extracting (all of which is totally debateable). At the time, the locations that had the NG sources were almost all mostly inland areas with very few pipelines that ran to ports where the LNG tankers would then fill up and transport across the sea (seems ridiculous to me, it could be converted to liquid fuel and then transported...)

So, we have seen MASSIVE pipelines being installed - 48" lines that run at near 30-40,000PSI and with that there are compressor stations all along the pipe line keeping the pressure up and the gas flowing.

Well before these pipelines were completed, they needed a market for the gas, so they pushed to install smaller "feeder" lines to cities and towns that never had it before, or had limited supplies where it mainly fed industry or institutions. There was a lot of new "road construction" done in these cities where they got state grants to redo city roads and at the same time, in many places they installed new gas lines, either more lines, larger, or re-lined corroded ones. What is amazing is that at the same time that this was done, they could have laid fiber optic at a fraction of the cost but from what I have seen, maybe about 1-2% of the work alloted for this and it was for "important" sites or high income neighborhoods.

If you look at local news paper ads or Craigs list, for the last 10 years there would be 10-20 'fuel oil" tanks for free, often nearly full with oil. This is because they had to switch out the burner in their furnace, or install a new "green furnace" that ran on natural gas - all because the prices were cheap at the time.

Now that that the ports are completed or are nearing completion as well as the pipelines being completed or near completion, there have have been reports of lots of gas producing wells being shut down and not because they are out of gas, probably to reduce the supply and increase the price.

There have been estimates that 60-80% of the gas going through these massive high pressure lines are meant for export to Western Europe (and maybe England?) There was HUGE backlash and protests against the pipelines where I was but the FED's learned from Standing rock and they arrested peole right and left and didn't even let the ember of protest start to smolder. At one point, they arrested 12 nuns (religious order nuns) because they were tearing up a sacred tract of land to place the pipe line and they were not permitted to even access it afterwards (on top of about 2,000 other violations and issues just in one county). This is the same place where about 960 lbs of "dynamite" was stolen (blasting gelatin w/caps packaged like breakfast sausages) - but no worries, they found 120lbs of it discarded in a creek about 5-10 miles away and they had just mis-counted the original estimate.... (even though it was verified by 3 site supervisors and an accountant). I'm sure the ATF/FBI is totally on top of these things.

So, on top of the Constitutional violations against the citizens of take state and county, we have been lead lured into thinking that NG was going to be cheap and plentiful, probably 1/4-1/3 the price of fuel oil for heating a house - so why wouldn't people upgrade!? (and many using tax credits for green energy).

So how long until we see what is the standard MO of all monopolies, where they reduce supply and jack up the price?
On top of this I feel that the people of the states where the NG is extracted should be getting some kind of subsidy like how Alaska gets $$ each year from their oil. how do these companies keep raping our states and the poiticians jsut roll over and take it hard and fast and aske for more?

The electricity hike is going to hit everyone b/c a lot of coal mines have been shut down, equipment sold off (b/c 10 years of NG has killed them in many ways) so switching back is going to be a very difficult venture. This is where the cost of electricity is going to go up. And on top of this,the super cheap electricity of NG has put a few nuke plants out of business (which were very inexpensive, very reliable and provided LOTS of jobs) b/c no one would buy their electricity b/c it was so much more expensive than the electricity from the NG plants. Once these plants are decomissioned, good luck getting them back up and running, if that is even possible (it should be but I'm sure there will be some "experts claiming many billions to do so) - so when the price of NG goes up, electricity price goes up, nuke plants are gone, coal isn't being produced as much (and plants have transitioned), it seems like we have been painted into a corner.

We need to look deeply into this as this has been a 20+ year plan for this to happen and find out those responsible. This is they type of thing for which people should be held accountable for treason (hung from lamp posts for all to see) because it directly effects the national security of the country and the welfare of every individual in the country.


How can we start a research group to look into something like this. In all honesty, there are probably about 10-20 MAJOR issues facing the US which seem to have been deliberately contrived to weaken our economy and there have been people making billions/trillions off of this while the little man suffers.




posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 08:05 AM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof



Dig 'round here.. Let Me know if You need more info!

whale.to...



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 08:09 AM
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originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
So, we have seen MASSIVE pipelines being installed - 48" lines that run at near 30-40,000PSI and with that there are compressor stations all along the pipe line keeping the pressure up and the gas flowing.


No way in hell do they run at that much pressure. That makes me doubt the rest of your post.



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 08:14 AM
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a reply to: JIMC5499

I was wondering about that too.
I thought natural gas was a few hundred pounds and a regulator at the house drops it to 15 to 20.

But at the same time I think prices will jump soon.



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 08:17 AM
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a reply to: JIMC5499

Not even close.


www.aga.org...


From the gathering system, the natural gas moves into the transmission system, which is composed of about 272,000 miles of high-strength steel pipe ranging from 20 inches to 42 inches in diameter.

These large transmission lines for natural gas can be compared to the nation's interstate highway system for cars. They move large amounts of natural gas thousands of miles from the producing regions to local distribution companies (LDCs). The pressure of gas in each section of line typically ranges from 200 pounds to 1,500 pounds per square inch, depending on the type of area in which the pipeline is operating. As a safety measure, pipelines are designed and constructed to handle much more pressure than is ever actually reached in the system. For example, pipelines in more populated areas operate at less than one-half of their design pressure level.




posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 08:25 AM
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originally posted by: JIMC5499

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
So, we have seen MASSIVE pipelines being installed - 48" lines that run at near 30-40,000PSI and with that there are compressor stations all along the pipe line keeping the pressure up and the gas flowing.


No way in hell do they run at that much pressure. That makes me doubt the rest of your post.


Naw, man, they use vibranium pipes!



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 08:38 AM
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a reply to: MteWamp

You mean unobtanium.



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 08:47 AM
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Not a single source to cite any of the information
posted. There are a number of sources readily available to contradict that which what is posted as factual.


Natural gas that is transported through interstate pipelines travels at high pressure in the pipeline, at pressures anywhere from 200 to 1500 pounds per square inch (psi). This reduces the volume of the natural gas being transported (by up to 600 times), as well as propelling natural gas through the pipeline.


naturalgas.org...

Perhaps there will be a rise in the price of natural gas. Expect that it will rise for this coming winter as it usually does rise, in step with demand. Gas for our vehicles is also guaranteed to raise at the beginning of Summer or the busy travel season.

The biggest factor in a rise in price aside from the normal ups and downs of supply and demand are the state of the Nations infrastructure or lack there of. Storage and processing facilities are needed, both new facilities and updates to existing facilities.

www.google.com...
edit on 9/14/2018 by DJMSN because: Correction

edit on 9/14/2018 by DJMSN because: Correction



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 08:56 AM
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originally posted by: JIMC5499
a reply to: MteWamp

You mean unobtanium.


Adamantium.



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof


Do you just sit around every day going 'what should I get all worked up about and post online'? No source, no facts, just paranoid rambling.



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: JIMC5499

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
So, we have seen MASSIVE pipelines being installed - 48" lines that run at near 30-40,000PSI and with that there are compressor stations all along the pipe line keeping the pressure up and the gas flowing.


No way in hell do they run at that much pressure. That makes me doubt the rest of your post.


That's the pressure they use to make industrial diamonds...



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 10:19 AM
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a reply to: manuelram16

The pressure when your girlfriend is ready to get married and you're not...



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 10:42 AM
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a reply to: Rookseven

So you show your ignorance by insulting.....GFY!



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 11:30 AM
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originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
So when the "Fracking" boom hit, much of the US was flooded with cheap natural gas and there was a HUGE push to convert coal plants to use NG because it was "greener" both in burning and in mining/extracting (all of which is totally debateable). At the time, the locations that had the NG sources were almost all mostly inland areas with very few pipelines that ran to ports where the LNG tankers would then fill up and transport across the sea (seems ridiculous to me, it could be converted to liquid fuel and then transported...)

So, we have seen MASSIVE pipelines being installed - 48" lines that run at near 30-40,000PSI and with that there are compressor stations all along the pipe line keeping the pressure up and the gas flowing.

Well before these pipelines were completed, they needed a market for the gas, so they pushed to install smaller "feeder" lines to cities and towns that never had it before, or had limited supplies where it mainly fed industry or institutions. There was a lot of new "road construction" done in these cities where they got state grants to redo city roads and at the same time, in many places they installed new gas lines, either more lines, larger, or re-lined corroded ones. What is amazing is that at the same time that this was done, they could have laid fiber optic at a fraction of the cost but from what I have seen, maybe about 1-2% of the work alloted for this and it was for "important" sites or high income neighborhoods.

If you look at local news paper ads or Craigs list, for the last 10 years there would be 10-20 'fuel oil" tanks for free, often nearly full with oil. This is because they had to switch out the burner in their furnace, or install a new "green furnace" that ran on natural gas - all because the prices were cheap at the time.

Now that that the ports are completed or are nearing completion as well as the pipelines being completed or near completion, there have have been reports of lots of gas producing wells being shut down and not because they are out of gas, probably to reduce the supply and increase the price.

There have been estimates that 60-80% of the gas going through these massive high pressure lines are meant for export to Western Europe (and maybe England?) There was HUGE backlash and protests against the pipelines where I was but the FED's learned from Standing rock and they arrested peole right and left and didn't even let the ember of protest start to smolder. At one point, they arrested 12 nuns (religious order nuns) because they were tearing up a sacred tract of land to place the pipe line and they were not permitted to even access it afterwards (on top of about 2,000 other violations and issues just in one county). This is the same place where about 960 lbs of "dynamite" was stolen (blasting gelatin w/caps packaged like breakfast sausages) - but no worries, they found 120lbs of it discarded in a creek about 5-10 miles away and they had just mis-counted the original estimate.... (even though it was verified by 3 site supervisors and an accountant). I'm sure the ATF/FBI is totally on top of these things.

So, on top of the Constitutional violations against the citizens of take state and county, we have been lead lured into thinking that NG was going to be cheap and plentiful, probably 1/4-1/3 the price of fuel oil for heating a house - so why wouldn't people upgrade!? (and many using tax credits for green energy).

So how long until we see what is the standard MO of all monopolies, where they reduce supply and jack up the price?
On top of this I feel that the people of the states where the NG is extracted should be getting some kind of subsidy like how Alaska gets $$ each year from their oil. how do these companies keep raping our states and the poiticians jsut roll over and take it hard and fast and aske for more?

The electricity hike is going to hit everyone b/c a lot of coal mines have been shut down, equipment sold off (b/c 10 years of NG has killed them in many ways) so switching back is going to be a very difficult venture. This is where the cost of electricity is going to go up. And on top of this,the super cheap electricity of NG has put a few nuke plants out of business (which were very inexpensive, very reliable and provided LOTS of jobs) b/c no one would buy their electricity b/c it was so much more expensive than the electricity from the NG plants. Once these plants are decomissioned, good luck getting them back up and running, if that is even possible (it should be but I'm sure there will be some "experts claiming many billions to do so) - so when the price of NG goes up, electricity price goes up, nuke plants are gone, coal isn't being produced as much (and plants have transitioned), it seems like we have been painted into a corner.

We need to look deeply into this as this has been a 20+ year plan for this to happen and find out those responsible. This is they type of thing for which people should be held accountable for treason (hung from lamp posts for all to see) because it directly effects the national security of the country and the welfare of every individual in the country.


How can we start a research group to look into something like this. In all honesty, there are probably about 10-20 MAJOR issues facing the US which seem to have been deliberately contrived to weaken our economy and there have been people making billions/trillions off of this while the little man suffers.


Ok so first, they don’t use 40k psi, second, the only lmg to come online recently was in Maryland, and all its production was bought by japan and India, for 20 years. 3rd, the well capacity far exceeds transmission pipeline capabilities. So the reason why they cap Wells is because a cracked well may cost 1million to drill then 10’s of thousands to maintain per year. If you cap it, you don’t have to baby sit it, and you are ready for when the price does go up, which it will. That said, I don’t see a spike in price. There will be a gradual increase over time as more markets come online. However, there is so much capped wells no operating, that until all the wells are running, you won’t see significant price spikes. It’s the law of supply and demand. Lng going out of the USA isn’t a significant market. Sure it’s a couple billion, but that’s a drop in the bucket to the domestic market. Just my opinion

Camain



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 12:25 PM
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(a 40-foot section of steel pipe pressurized to 1480 psi will have a total force of over 93 million pounds, or 46,800 tons,


That is where I got confused. I think I mixed the tons and the PSI. But if a gun can handle 30,000 to 90,000psi max pressure for a split second, IDK if it could for longer w/o rupturing.



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 12:47 PM
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The commercial and trade dealers are long on Natural Gas futures, the non-commercial investors are short.
Suggests some rising prices, but a spike? Not so sure.



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 12:51 PM
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I think the pressure quoted in the OP is too high but agree that it is risky business to start getting too dependent on natural gas transmission. An earthquake can take out a major pipeline and cut off a supply to an area quickly. If the power plants are dependent on natural gas, you cannot even run electric heaters if the gas disappears. We are creating a very risky environment of our societies by putting all our eggs into one basket.

Overall, coal power plants are not that much worse than natural gas for carbon emmissionsbecause of the methane leaks from fracking all over.
edit on 14-9-2018 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 01:24 PM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Just wanted to share my 2 cents on natural gas and electric. Where I live if you get on a time of use plan, your rates drop by almost half from 7pm to 7am.

So basically it's best to run your washer and dryer and dishwasher during that time.
I didn't think it would make a huge difference, but I have saved thousands over the years. (especially with air conditioning and heating)

Many people don't know about it, and they don't necessarily advertise it either. Look up on your utilities website and it's probably there.

This wouldn't work for someone that is home all day and prefers to do those things during the day, but if you work and aren't home anyways it really really saves a lot.



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof

No disrespect intended, but, take a Strength of Materials class.



posted on Sep, 14 2018 @ 04:22 PM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof




LNG tankers would then fill up and transport across the sea (seems ridiculous to me, it could be converted to liquid fuel and then transported...)

You are aware what LNG stands for right?



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