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POLITICS: Canada to reject missile defence

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posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 12:22 AM
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ah....i see...and Europe, China, and Russia are so good at diplomatic relations that they don't need a missile defense system right?....oh wait...they already have missile defense systems in place..


They also have a country such as America who has spoken vehemently in regards to the political systems they have adhered in their own country, have they not? Now, tell me, what was the reason for Russia to create a Missile Defence program, I hardly doubt this was a spontaneous accord, hardly at all.

Moscow many years before expressed resentment towards the American Missile Defence system as it would contradict the 1972 "Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty." The America were vehement in ending the Nuclear Arms Race, and now are adamant in starting another, tell me, does this not seem odd to you? Terrorism is not a justifiable answer either.

As for your insinuation that Canada has denounced this failed Missile Defence system in regards to thier economic ties to China, one would also keep in mind whom China exports a grant scale too..

Deep




posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 12:27 AM
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Ok, for now i just found some old links from last year about this partnership between Canada and China. Here are some excerpts until i find the more recent article.




January 25, 2005 (3:45 p.m. EST) No. 16
MINISTER PETERSON AND CANADIAN BUSINESS
REPRESENTATIVES CONCLUDE
SUCCESSFUL TRADE MISSION TO CHINA

International Trade Minister Jim Peterson today concluded a successful Canada Trade Mission to Shanghai, Beijing and Hong Kong, China, the largest ever led by a trade minister. During the mission, which took place from January 18 to 25, close to 375 Canadian delegates from 279 companies and various government departments and agencies further developed commercial ties in China and established new ones with Chinese partners. More than 100 agreements were signed between Canadian and Chinese companies.

"The number of sectors represented on this mission shows how eager Canadian and Chinese business people are to explore bilateral commercial opportunities. Governments in both countries are actively putting into place frameworks to help make that happen," said Minister Peterson. "With China redefining global trade, a China business plan is no longer an option for Canadian companies; it's a must."


Excerpted from.
www.tcm-mec.gc.ca...

Well, since China did threaten the US with a new arms race if we ever picked up a missile defense system...and because "a China business plan is not longer an option for Canadian companies; it's a must"....according to what Canadians are saying... i can see why Canada would reject to be part of the US missile defense system...



China/Canada Partnership

Our partnerships can take many forms.

Canada and China have a mutually beneficial relationship that stretches back decades — years of friendship and cooperation in scientific research and business development.

I am pleased to say our relationship is growing stronger. Over the past few years, we have strengthened existing relations and created new links between our two countries.

Over the years, we have learned a great deal about one another. We have discovered that there is an obvious fit between China’s economic development priorities and Canada’s capabilities in supplying natural resources commodities, and in technology, finance and business.
........................
We are encouraged by China’s ongoing commitment to trade and investment liberalization, which will attract more foreign investment, particularly in mining.

As you know, Canada’s mining companies invest heavily in China. They see the mineral potential that this country’s rich geology can provide. They also see the potential of the mining companies in China.


Excerpted from.
www.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca...


[edit on 25-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 12:46 AM
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i am having a hard time finding that article again.

Anyways, here is the response from Tibet about Canadian companies being in Tibet for mining operations which they signed with China.


Dalai Lama wants Canadian miners out of Tibet
The Asian Pacific Post[Friday, January 28, 2005 11:28]
The companies — Continental Minerals Corporation of Vancouver and Inter-Citic of Toronto — had taken up invitations by China to prospect for gold and copper in its western region.

The Dalai Lama‘s government-in-exile, in a report from Dharamsala, India said the 2.5 million square kilometre of Tibetan landmass that has been targeted is the source of major rivers flowing through China and the rest of Asia.

The report by the Environment and Development Desk of the Central Tibetan Administration said indiscriminate mining in the Tibetan plateau will also impact local and global climatic patterns.

It quotes an environment expert as saying: “In Tibet we can‘t do what other provinces (of China) did — first destroying the environment and then fixing it. Tibet‘s environment is more fragile, we have to protect it from the start because it might not recover otherwise.“


Excerpted from.
www.phayul.com...

And here i thought that China and Canada were trying to work for the betterment of the environment...


Well, there goes China being concerned for the environment as their reason to wanting all nations to sign the Kyoto Accord....



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 12:48 AM
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Canada is interested in Chinas resources and vice versa, there was no insuniation of the threats you stated. Canada deals with many countries economicaly to encourage better ties and assent thier own economy; not over some threats..

Deep

[edit on 25-2-2005 by ZeroDeep]



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by ZeroDeep

They also have a country such as America who has spoken vehemently in regards to the political systems they have adhered in their own country, have they not? Now, tell me, what was the reason for Russia to create a Missile Defence program, I hardly doubt this was a spontaneous accord, hardly at all.


Oooh...so the U.S.S.R were just a great country with one of the greatest human rights history on the planet when they developed the misile defense system......and why is the reason for the Russians to have upgraded these sytems in 2002-2003?.... obviously you are saying that terrorism and rogue nations are not a good excuse for doing this...



Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Moscow many years before expressed resentment towards the American Missile Defence system as it would contradict the 1972 "Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty." The America were vehement in ending the Nuclear Arms Race, and now are adamant in starting another, tell me, does this not seem odd to you? Terrorism is not a justifiable answer either.


The Chinese also went against this treaty and they are still buying equipment to upgrade and expand their missile defense system...
Anyways, here is a link with information on the reason why the Chinese say they need their missile defense system, and the recent acquisitions and developments they have done to upgrade it.

www.missilethreat.com...




Originally posted by ZeroDeep
As for your insinuation that Canada has denounced this failed Missile Defence system in regards to thier economic ties to China, one would also keep in mind whom China exports a grant scale too..
Deep


So it is an insinuation that Canada wants to be best buddies with China to maintain their partnership?.... i see..

BTW...the exports that you are talking about from China to the US is for now very important for China...at least until they solidify new partnerships with other countries and stablish a stronger economy...but i have already many times posted evidence on the goals that many Chinese high ranking military officers have in mind for China...and for the US.... But of course you will say it's all propaganda...the US somehow made these Chinese officials make these statements....


[edit on 25-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
And that gives a excuse for Russia committing attrocities on these people... hey, they should be going only after the terrorists right?...no women and children should be dying in this conflict....

Hey, lookit that. Exactly what I said when the US reduced a fair amount of Falluja to rubble. As I recall, the Conservatives harped on about how 'this is war, bad things happen, ends justify the means, etc.' You're right, women and children shouldn't be dying in these conflicts. But, then against, the conservative foreign policy platform has always hinged on 'bomb it until it goes away'.


Humm, so you are saying that rogues nations and terrorists have not threatened those nations you mentioned or Canada?.....they are only threatening the US... Let's see if that is true.... i have already posted the threats and attacks that Islamic terrorists were planning on France, and Spain...let me present some evidence on your notion that only those countries who poke their nose in the business of rogue nations get attacked by terrorists.....

That is EXACTLY what I'm saying. Maybe, just maybe, if the US didn't bomb the bejesus out of countries so often, people would not be clamoring for the vengeance. Ditto supporting their oppressors, and backing out on promises. See, terrorists don't just wake up one day and say 'Hey! I'm going to blow up....umm...the united states! Yeah!' Since Canada is stuck next to you and a major part of your economy, we get suckered into being a terrorist target.

This excerpt is from the Canadian Security Intelligence service....


1. The terrorist threat wears many faces. Over the last thirty years, Canadians have been touched by several acts of terrorism, each with unique motives and means. Examples include domestic separatist violence in Quebec, Sikh separatist terrorism in the Air India disaster, and, in the recent case of Ahmed Ressam, a bomb plot whose motives are thus far unknown. To counter these activities, Canada has developed a response to terrorism that meets the challenge of a serious and perpetually evolving threat.


humm, a "perpetual evolving threat"....to Canada?....but why?...they have never poked their nose in the businesses of rogue nations......
Here comes the interesting part...

Damn! I didn't know that quebec was a rogue nation! The Air India incident was a tradgedy, indeed, but I do not believe it directly targeted Canadians. As for domestic terrorism, the US has quite a bit of that, wot with abortion clinic shootings, your own citizens exploding buildings and such.


CANADA’S INTERNATIONAL RESPONSIBILITIES
3.Terrorism is a global phenomenon, and the struggle against it must therefore be carried to the world stage. The 1999 Special Senate Committee on Security and Intelligence (the Kelly Committee) found that “to be effective, the fight against terrorism must be through a united international front.”(1)

4. Targeting terrorist financing is a key element in the fight against terrorism. At the 1996 Sharm El Sheikh summit in Egypt, Prime Minister Jean Chrétien said that all like-minded nations must take “whatever measures are necessary to ensure that no country anywhere in the world can get away with giving support” to terrorists. CSIS Public Reports since 1996 all refer to terrorist fundraising as a source of concern for the organization, and in a 1997 report by the Security Intelligence Review Committee (SIRC), the review body agreed that these activities could be of interest to CSIS as it plays a pivotal role in preventing politically motivated violence.


Excerpted from.
www.csis-scrs.gc.ca...

Wait a second....the canadian government is saying that the war against terrorism must be carried to the world stage?.....

Do you know what that means?....no?....

Yeah, but see, it also means that you shouldn't run halfway across the world to kick over a regime that had nothing to do with terrorists. Hey, I was all for the war in Afghanistan. Canadian troops were there, and it was righteous. Now, the Americans have turned the War on Terror into some half-cocked global quest for vengeance, and that ain't exactly fair since you're going to suck Canada into whatever mess you get into.

BTW...what does Prime Minister Jean Chrétien means when he says that "no country anywhere in the world should get away with giving support to terrorism"?....

Let me put another quote in here from the same Canadian site....


“Those who freely choose to raise funds to sustain terrorist organizations bear the same guilt and responsibility as those who actually carry out the terrorist acts.”


Strange, I seem to recall the United States doing extremely little to prevent the spread of money to the IRA. Hell, I remember who trained OBL! Does this mean that, *GASP* it's your own damn fault that you suffer the threat of terrorism? Because, I seem to remember things in the 80s, like the UNited States engaging in and supporting terrorism. Iran Contra ring any bells? what about the first afghan war?

On the contrary, it is a natural response by many people to act in this way...and it is also natural to go after the countries that support terrorism and are planning on doing terrorist attacks on any country....

Interesting. So why are you in Iraq, then?

BTW....are you forgetting the fact that the Russian government, Vladimir Putin, told us that Saddam was planning on carrying out terrorist attacks on US soil?......


Russia warned the United States on several occasions that Iraq's Saddam Hussein planned "terrorist attacks" on its soil, President Vladimir Putin said Friday.

"After the events of September 11, 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services several times received such information and passed it on to their American colleagues," he told reporters.

The Kremlin leader, who was speaking in the Kazakh capital, said Russian intelligence services had many times received information that Saddam's special forces were preparing terrorist attacks in the United States "and beyond its borders on American military and civilian targets."


Excerpted from.
www.perryonpolitics.com...

Frankly, I liked Boris better. As far as the validity of that statement goes, the united states actually had plans laid to commit terrorist acts on their own soil to instigate a war. Hell, the CCCP had plans to detonate dozens of suitcase nukes on your soil during the cold war, there's an excuse for you! Anyways, Putin just told you what you wanted to hear. Due to his country's internal problems, he can't be bothered with your ridiculous crusade. Just tells you what you want to hear, and gets back to bussiness.


The original article was from CNN.


You forgot that too huh?....your memory is very selective for some reason.....

Oh, CNN. Damn, you got me trumped, with an American media outlet!

Hummm...is that why it has been found that the Ukranian elections were rigged...and this rigged election was supported by Putin?...

Damn! That's a civil liberty violation happening not even in his own country, much like how the US is supporting opposition of Hugo Chavez! Hell, the US backed the attempted coup in that country.


Although there is no direct evidence of US involvement in the assassination, the website www.venezuelaFOIA.info... reveals the documents that show that the US congress-controlled National Endowment for Democracy (NED) has provided funds to opposition groups that participated in the failed coup. Four leaders of the opposition group Sumate face charges because they got US$53,000 from the NED. The US government has seized on this case as evidence of Chavez's "authoritarianism", despite the fact that in the US, it is also illegal to receive money from a foreign power for the purposes of bringing down the government!


From:www.arena.org.nz...

"I am sure there is money from abroad," asserts Moncada. It's a good guess: prior to the coup on April 11, the U.S. National Endowment for Democracy stepped up its funding to opposition groups, including money funneled through the International Republican Institute. The latter's funding multiplied more than sixfold, to $340,000 in 2001.

from : www.commondreams.org...


Tell me how many tv stations has the US government shut down because they don't paint a pretty picture of our president?....

ha! The american media knows the score, they just need to paint a patriotic picture and everywhere's happy. Flags waving, Americans are the heroes of the world, and they get to make big bucks. When it boils down to it, almost the sum total of your media is owned by like two companies. There have been no media outlets shut down because there is no need to disrupt the fantasy life of the united states.

So, what happens in Canada or any other country in the world, including socialist countries...when people want to protest and turn to violence and rioting?.... The police just let them do whatever they want right?......Riiiight....

So now America is the world's police?

i find it hilarious that you are so selective...just to promote your agenda against the US government...

I find it curious that an educated man like you simply takes what is handed to him and believes it, especially from his own government.

My suspicion is that you will use any excuse and exagerate points trying to "spread" your own agenda against the US....

My agenda doesn't need the spreading- it's already all kinds of places thanks to the continued acts of the US government. You seem to be the one exagerrating my personal opinion. What next, slander? I'm rather enjoying this debate. At any rate, your adamancy that the US is the true protector of all thigns right and fair is rather shocking, but I don't believe that message will get anywhere.


I just find it amusing that your reasoning is so out of whack... and you prefer to ignore evidence that clearly shows you are wrong.

I find it sad that you refuse to consider anything but the highest opinion of your country, which has been without a shadow of a doubt, the most destructive force on the planet for the last sixty years.

DE




[edit on 25-2-2005 by DeusEx]



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 09:28 PM
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Here's an interesting article from today:


A defiant Martin declared again today that the United States must seek permission before firing any missile over Canadian airspace.

He was responding to warnings that Canada has abdicated sovereignty by refusing to take part in the U.S. project.

The top U.S. envoy to Canada - Ambassador Paul Cellucci - says Canada would be "outside of the room" when his country decides whether to fire at incoming missiles.

But Martin said today: "We would expect to be consulted.

"This is our airspace, we're a sovereign nation and you don't intrude on a sovereign nation's airspace without seeking permission."

Martin repeated today that Canada reaffirmed its sovereignty this week with a $12.8-billion investment over five years to help rebuild the military.

But critics said the prime minister is deluding himself if he expects a heads-up. Bercuson said only military officials involved in missile defence would be in on any strike.

"Somebody has obviously not explained to the prime minister how these arrangements work," Bercuson said.

"The reason you put these arrangements in place beforehand . . . is that you don't have to run back to your respective government every time you have to make a decision.

"The White House would be informed that there was a missile launch against North America. It would not be asked for its permission to shoot the missile down."


Missile Defence



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 09:47 PM
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as posted by parrhesia
A defiant Martin declared again today that the United States must seek permission before firing any missile over Canadian airspace.

--snip--

But critics said the prime minister is deluding himself if he expects a heads-up. Bercuson said only military officials involved in missile defence would be in on any strike.

--snip--

"The White House would be informed that there was a missile launch against North America. It would not be asked for its permission to shoot the missile down."


Isn't there an old adage that says that you can't have your cake and eat it too?

Mr. Martin needs to be briefed on this matter, seriously. He is starting to remind me of Bush and what happened in Slovakia with the protocols of removing the gloves before shaking hands.....






seekerof



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 09:55 PM
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.
.
.
As Paul Martin says,

"This is our airspace, we're a sovereign nation and you don't intrude on a sovereign nation's airspace without seeking permission."


Obviously, US intrusion into Canadian airspace would be an act of war. How unfortunate that US "foreign policy" continues to be hostile and bullying.

I wonder how the rest of the world might react if such ridiculosities did come to pass? But most likely they won't,

"The leader of the NDP said the only delusion is in the minds of people imagining scare scenarios of some potential missile attack.

"These are the kind of hypothetical questions that (George) Bush has tried to create in the minds of people to elevate a sense of fear.

"The fact is that if Canada is a part of a program like this, then we become a target." "



Still, few in the world will forget the fact that the US chose to threaten its peaceful neighbor, Canada.



.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 09:56 PM
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Parrhesia it looks like America's spin doctors are working overtime playing duplicit politics. If Martin signs he gives up soverignty as the US will automatically shoot down any incoming missile. If he does not, they shoot it down anyway, how is that soverignty? The question I have of Bush's goons is, what idiot is pushing this PR when it is clearly six of one half dozen of the other? The only difference is that with approval Canada has no recourse for wayward behaviour on the part of the US, as they will say, you signed, you agreed, while on the latter the US would have to explain its action after our soverignty is violated.

I prefer the latter, since this is nothing more than a bullying tactic and once more, rhetoric aimed at the mindless who cannot think for themselves. The Bush government is saying, whether you agree to do it our way is inconsequential, for we will do as we choose regardless. Such magnanimity! and we are to believe he really cares to respect other countries. Bush proves that everything emanating from his administration is nothing but hostility disguised as care and concern.

If one bomb flies overhead, there will be many more, and since the US can't shoot straight anyway, we have to hope the enemy can. In either scenario, millions at both borders die, and no one wins.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 10:06 PM
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as posted by soficrow
Still, few in the world will forget the fact that the US chose to threaten its peaceful neighbor, Canada.


Ain't no threat by the US, soficrow. Those are concerned Canadian's that are asserting what we are. At least there are a few objective ones left.
Ignoring what is implied by the article is your choice, not mine. The consequences of an incoming ICBM or missile transitting through Canadian airspace (targeting an American city) will also be your concern, either before or after it is shoot down.






seekerof

[edit on 25-2-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof

as posted by soficrow
Still, few in the world will forget the fact that the US chose to threaten its peaceful neighbor, Canada.


Ain't no threat by the US, soficrow.





Any nation's airspace is sovereign. It's international law. To threaten to invade that airspace is threatening invasion of the nation.

You guys need to get a grip. Take a chill pill. See a therapist. You're all getting way out of hand.



.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 10:25 PM
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Chill pill has been taken....long time ago.

Personally, lets all do a big fat group hug, cause your going to be protected for free anyhow, and despite that the program would not have cost Canada "a dime."

*spreads arms*




seekerof



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
your going to be protected for free anyhow,



Hug back.



The point is though, Canadians do not WANT or need your missile "protection." More to the point, Canada's sovereignty is protected by international law, including her airspace.

Most Canadians believe, I think rightly, that the real danger lies in US proximity - created by US hostility and expansionist military policies. ...Worse, Bush has challenged all comers - and now, every psychopath in the world is targeting the US.

This is America's problem, caused by her President's actions and demeanor. ...Why should Canada jump on the "big bad bully" bandwagon and make herself a target too?



.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 10:53 PM
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as posted by soficrow
Why should Canada jump on the "big bad bully" bandwagon and make herself a target too?



Being that the majority of Canada's major cities are located within 150-200 miles of the US, you are a consider a/an "indirect" target: its called close proximity fallout.

*hugs back*


seekerof

[edit on 25-2-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by DeusEx

Hey, lookit that. Exactly what I said when the US reduced a fair amount of Falluja to rubble. As I recall, the Conservatives harped on about how 'this is war, bad things happen, ends justify the means, etc.' You're right, women and children shouldn't be dying in these conflicts. But, then against, the conservative foreign policy platform has always hinged on 'bomb it until it goes away'.


My point was exactly that....people are protesting agaisnt what is happening in Iraq, yet not much is being said and done because it is also happening to fomer Russian states....



Originally posted by DeusEx
That is EXACTLY what I'm saying. Maybe, just maybe, if the US didn't bomb the bejesus out of countries so often, people would not be clamoring for the vengeance. Ditto supporting their oppressors, and backing out on promises. See, terrorists don't just wake up one day and say 'Hey! I'm going to blow up....umm...the united states! Yeah!' Since Canada is stuck next to you and a major part of your economy, we get suckered into being a terrorist target.


Oh, i see...and what is the reason for the terrorists to want to attack Spain and France among other nations?..... oh yeah, France has always been on the side of the US.....right, i forgot about that one.....

You are blinded by what is happening.....countries that have been agaisnt the war on terror are being attacked, and plans have been set in motion by Islamic terrorists...not the US..... Even French intelligence said this is what is happening....as well as evidence from Spain and other countries...yet...according to you is all because of the US...that's BS...




Originally posted by DeusEx
Damn! I didn't know that quebec was a rogue nation! The Air India incident was a tradgedy, indeed, but I do not believe it directly targeted Canadians. As for domestic terrorism, the US has quite a bit of that, wot with abortion clinic shootings, your own citizens exploding buildings and such.


Where did i say that Quebec is a rogue nation?....as i was saying....your reasoning is out of whack....

And if you want to talk about Timothy Mcveight (or however you spell his last name) you should also mention the middle east connection that was found by an independent correspondent...



Originally posted by DeusEx
Yeah, but see, it also means that you shouldn't run halfway across the world to kick over a regime that had nothing to do with terrorists. Hey, I was all for the war in Afghanistan. Canadian troops were there, and it was righteous. Now, the Americans have turned the War on Terror into some half-cocked global quest for vengeance, and that ain't exactly fair since you're going to suck Canada into whatever mess you get into.


Nothing to do with terrorism?.....so you mean to tell us that Saddam was not funding suicide bombers and their families for blowing Jewish people and Americans?.... There were terrorist training camps in Iraq for the sole purpose of training terrorists to hijack planes... i am not talking about terrorists using aviation schools to train...but terrorist camps...

Even evidence came out from Spain that at least one of the terrorists involved in 9/11 had ties with the Iraqi embassy....

As i was saying, you prefer to ignore all this evidence and keep claiming it was for nothing...



Originally posted by DeusEx
Strange, I seem to recall the United States doing extremely little to prevent the spread of money to the IRA. Hell, I remember who trained OBL! Does this mean that, *GASP* it's your own damn fault that you suffer the threat of terrorism? Because, I seem to remember things in the 80s, like the UNited States engaging in and supporting terrorism. Iran Contra ring any bells? what about the first afghan war?


OBL was trained to stop the spread of communism in the middle east...but of course you would say communism is a good cause.... like *GASP* all the communist countries in the world have been so good and great towards their own people and the world......why try to stop them right?....




Originally posted by DeusEx
Interesting. So why are you in Iraq, then?


Read the above.... The Russians and the Spanish found evidence of Saddam plots with terrorist attacks on the US in the case of Russia, and in the case of Spain evidence was found tying at least one terrorist that was involved in 9/11 with the Iraqi embassy...




Originally posted by DeusEx
Frankly, I liked Boris better. As far as the validity of that statement goes, the united states actually had plans laid to commit terrorist acts on their own soil to instigate a war. Hell, the CCCP had plans to detonate dozens of suitcase nukes on your soil during the cold war, there's an excuse for you! Anyways, Putin just told you what you wanted to hear. Due to his country's internal problems, he can't be bothered with your ridiculous crusade. Just tells you what you want to hear, and gets back to bussiness.


Ok, back to the real world...terrorists are still trying to attack countries that have nothing to do with the US and they also want to attack US....



Originally posted by DeusEx
Oh, CNN. Damn, you got me trumped, with an American media outlet!


Let me guess, you get your news from Rense?....big improvement right?....

BTW...what are you going to say about the media in Spain and the evidence that came out from them about islamic terrorism, and not US terrorism..., the link to the Iraqi embassy, and the evidence from France, and from Russia...they are also bad news sources huh?...



Originally posted by DeusEx
Damn! That's a civil liberty violation happening not even in his own country, much like how the US is supporting opposition of Hugo Chavez! Hell, the US backed the attempted coup in that country.


Oh...so the US rigged all the protests by 2 million Venezuelans against Chavez too?... Did the US rig the elections in Venezuela?...no......by all intents and purposes at least two million Venezuelans are saying that Chavez is the one that rigged the elections....

So, tell me, what's the difference between trying to oust a man who is obviously the spitting image of fidel castro, he says so himself more or less, and who wants to take Venezuela through the same road that castro took Cuba....and a bunch of terrorists who are sponsored by extremist regimes to kill civilians?....humm... that's a tough one.



Originally posted by DeusEx
ha! The american media knows the score, they just need to paint a patriotic picture and everywhere's happy. Flags waving, Americans are the heroes of the world, and they get to make big bucks. When it boils down to it, almost the sum total of your media is owned by like two companies. There have been no media outlets shut down because there is no need to disrupt the fantasy life of the united states.


Is it also the fantasy life of Canada?...the Canadian intelligence agency it's saying pretty much the same thing...and so is the evidence from Spain, and even Russia...

i guess it's all the fantasy of all these countries too.



Originally posted by DeusEx
So now America is the world's police?


So, should the US and the rest of the countries in the world just turn their back on terrorism?.... As you said it yourself Canada went all over the other side of the world to attack Afgahnistan too....

i could play the devil's advocate and say no evidence you can provide is going to change my mind....Afgahnistan was not supported by terrorists.... hey the French want to say that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization...perhaps the Taliban was not a terrorist organization either...

so does Canada want to be the police force of the world when they went to Afgahnistan too?... They wanted to take over the world huh Deus....?


Who is living in a fantasy world?.....




Originally posted by DeusEx
I find it curious that an educated man like you simply takes what is handed to him and believes it, especially from his own government.


Evidence comes from other countries that are not the US....including Spain and Russia... so, i am not basing what is happening just by the evidence given from the US....




Originally posted by DeusEx
My agenda doesn't need the spreading- it's already all kinds of places thanks to the continued acts of the US government. You seem to be the one exagerrating my personal opinion. What next, slander? I'm rather enjoying this debate. At any rate, your adamancy that the US is the true protector of all thigns right and fair is rather shocking, but I don't believe that message will get anywhere.


and what have the actions of France brought to them?....more plots of terrorist attacks by islamic terrorists....and the same for Spain...and other countries...



Originally posted by DeusEx
I find it sad that you refuse to consider anything but the highest opinion of your country, which has been without a shadow of a doubt, the most destructive force on the planet for the last sixty years.

DE


i find it funny that you prefer to ignore evidence which comes not only from the US, but base your opinion from sites such as Rense and other egomaniacs, who want to close their eyes to what is happening in the world and prefer to let the world go down the drain.

---edited for errors---

[edit on 25-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 11:25 PM
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Ok, back on topic....This Canadian says that the US must ask Canada for permission to stop a ballistic missile targeted at a US city......

He has seriously lost his mind.....

hey, perhaps we should do the same if a ballistic missile is targeted towards Canada and flies over US airspace....the Canadians should ask permission to stop it too right?....

[edit on 25-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Parrhesia it looks like America's spin doctors are working overtime playing duplicit politics. If Martin signs he gives up soverignty as the US will automatically shoot down any incoming missile. If he does not, they shoot it down anyway, how is that soverignty? The question I have of Bush's goons is, what idiot is pushing this PR when it is clearly six of one half dozen of the other?


Ok,
so say Canada rejects the defence system, and the American's will not intercept any potential missiles going through Canadian air space.
Is it a realistic expectation that it be observed, yet no action taken, allowing it to strike somewhere in America?

As much as I think it's wrong in principle, I wouldn't blame them them for shooting it down over our airspace, without our permission. The other possibility it completely unrealistic, given anything would be observed over our airspace due to NORAD, which is a continental defense program.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by parrhesia


As much as I think it's wrong in principle, I wouldn't blame them them for shooting it down over our airspace, without our permission. The other possibility it completely unrealistic,




Bush could stop picking fights with everyone and getting all the psychos p'od with his bullying. ...Everything that comes out of his office escalates hostilities - and now he's threatening Canada. Canada!?


.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow

Bush could stop picking fights with everyone and getting all the psychos p'od with his bullying. ...Everything that comes out of his office escalates hostilities - and now he's threatening Canada. Canada!?


How exactly is president Bush threatening Canada soficrow?....



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