I have Aphantasia, my 'Minds Eye' starts working--what in the Hell am i seeing and why *this*?

a reply to: theantediluvian

I don't have literal conversations with myself in my head.

Tell me you are kidding.
I am starting to feel weird.

I not only have literal conversations with lots of other "mes" in my head but I talk with both people from my real life (yes they talk back in their voice) and people that I just make up in order to run ideas by.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

I'd just be sitting in the forest naked in my own little holodeck until I died of starvation or a cougar attack.

Imagining is not the same as experiencing.
I can imagine a naked women but I would much rather have one in person.

Even if a person could imagine movie quality scenarios it wouldn't be enough.

I mean think about it. Do you really want to live alone doing nothing but watching movies? Even movies that you made up?

Yes, yes I would--since apparently I can't imagine anything worth a damn, nor can I have a real woman

Looks like another double whammy for old buddha

As I said before, hats off to anyone who has this ability. I'll just get through on extra difficult mode somehow.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Justshrug

Oh w-t-actual-f! I just looked at it and now there's this "internal monologue" thing? What's that about? I don't think I have that either. I mean, I think about what I'm going to say before I say it but I don't have literal conversations with myself in my head.

I use an "internal monologue" quite frequently when I'm building or analyzing something. My curiosity is partly manifested in my minds eye based on a discussion I'm having with myself.

If I'm testing a circuit, and the DMM gives me a reading that is completely out of normal range, then it is not unusual for me to use some variation of the WTF exclamation.

Depending on the situation, I will also resort to "egocentric speech" where I'm conducting an actual audible dialogue with myself. One of my shrinks told me this is abnormal. It took me several years before I realized how full of crap he was...

So yes, "internal monologue" is a thing.

-dex

a reply to: Justshrug

and *feeling* at the same time

There is for sure an aspect of feeling when it comes to "seeing" with the minds eye.
I wish our society valued questions like this and we had schools were we could go and study this topic.

i would have seen something very different than what appears and there wouldn't be these strange "rules and structure" that controls my interaction with the 'stars'.

Maybe not. If I close my eyes And actively think of nothing. I will see blackness full of stars. But after a few mins those stars will move and shift and form random geometric shapes. Changing from one perfect shape to another.

I have a very high confidence that what Im experiencing in these moments is not simply a self-manifesting fantasy

I would agree. Especially because you never saw or even realized that you should be seeing anything.

a reply to: Justshrug

Imagine what it would be like to not have the ability to do so.

You have created a paradox.

It has broken my mind.

a reply to: scraedtosleep

Nope. Nothing.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: theantediluvian

I don't have literal conversations with myself in my head.

Tell me you are kidding.
I am starting to feel weird.

I not only have literal conversations with lots of other "mes" in my head but I talk with both people from my real life (yes they talk back in their voice) and people that I just make up in order to run ideas by.

I know what you mean. I have several of my mentors making comments about my approach to certain problems.

Unfortunately, I find that some of those imaginary entities are real assholes.


I think the old phrase "a little voice inside my head" really applies here. Even those who don't recognize the full potential of that "internal monologue" have probably experienced that.

-dex

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Justshrug

Oh w-t-actual-f! I just looked at it and now there's this "internal monologue" thing? What's that about? I don't think I have that either. I mean, I think about what I'm going to say before I say it but I don't have literal conversations with myself in my head.

Well that explains a lot. Jordan Peterson describes thinking as creating multiple characters with differing opinions and letting them duke it out in your mind.

I'm not surprised that you lack this ability.

a reply to: scraedtosleep

Yes! I absolutely wish there was some aspect of our culture providing a formal framework for the teaching, mentoring, and experimenting of the *very* real metaphysical phenomenon. Its such a loss that *something* is definitely happening behind the curtains, yet we have no institution or organization to guide further exploration (while at the same time protecting against corruption or self-enrichment of a figurehead). To have a framework with guidance for recreating testable 'spiritual' experiences by independent human consciousnesses....can you imagine?

a reply to: Bone75

I was surprised to hear anti say this because of how smart he is.

Obviously imagination is not required to be intelligent.

Anti and the op would prove this.

The more I read your replies the more I think I have it. I take very few pictures of myself, my loved ones, my important events and can go longer period of times without seeing my loved ones. They don’t understand and think I somehow don’t love them. Of course I do. They are my family. My everything. Also my memory is based on feelings more than anything. For example if someone asks me a question about something that happened a while back I say “I feel like the answer is....”

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Justshrug

I have a very high confidence that what Im experiencing in these moments is not simply a self-manifesting fantasy

I would agree. Especially because you never saw or even realized that you should be seeing anything.

Im curious, you've read my first three posts, what do you think the 'stars' are? What do you think i end up seeing?

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist
The more I read your replies the more I think I have it. I take very few pictures of myself, my loved ones, my important events and can go longer period of times without seeing my loved ones. They don’t understand and think I somehow don’t love them. Of course I do. They are my family. My everything. Also my memory is based on feelings more than anything. For example if someone asks me a question about something that happened a while back I say “I feel like the answer is....”

Definitely check out the link i posted written by Blake Ross. You'll know after that. Then ask people around you what their visualization capabilities are. Most pull up full color floating 'movies' behind their eyeballs

I NEVER take pics of myself and i do not like to be in them. Its been a point of contention with every partner ive ever had. I never associated this behavior with Aphantasia but it does seem to make sense that it is related as well.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Bone75

I was surprised to hear anti say this because of how smart he is.

Obviously imagination is not required to be intelligent.

Anti and the op would prove this.

Personally I think they're both full of crap.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Bone75

I was surprised to hear anti say this because of how smart he is.

Obviously imagination is not required to be intelligent.

Anti and the op would prove this.

Awww now I don't even pass for intelligent. What is a buddha to do

a reply to: Justshrug

Without being able to see what you call the stars I would feel foolish making a guess about what you are seeing.

I think when I see darkness and little pinpoints of light it is just what my physical eye is really seeing.
The back of my eyelids and the points of light are my eye attempting to gather in any light that it can. Even in the darkest of places there are still photons. Think about how a cat can see in what you think is pitch dark.

So I am seeing my eyelids and gathered tiny amounts of light and my brain starts to use my imagination to "move" that light around.

I think at the point when the light points start moving and forming shapes is when my third eye has started taking over.
It may be the same with you.
I suggest you try and consciously move the stars around and form shapes. Just think to yourself. Circle. circle. circle.circle. Over and over. See what happens.

a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

I don't really know you though. 8(


Stranger danger! stranger danger!

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Bone75

I was surprised to hear anti say this because of how smart he is.

Obviously imagination is not required to be intelligent.

Anti and the op would prove this.

just off what ive read from others at the sub-Reddit Aphantasia - Reddit and based on the complete lack of substantiated/robust scientific and medical studies (as the first one is still currently underway) we can't make generalizations about the IQ of this population group. We can, however, begin to see patterns that Aphantasiacs may be more analytical (more AI-like, if i can use that extreme comparison) and i would certainly support the statement that we could be less creative, in general. I'd also state, that for most of my life, my 'emotions' were of secondary, tertiary or complete non-importance in a ranked Pareto of 'Who' i want to be and 'What' I will accomplish.

Only recently, have i discovered that i can be 'creative' but the way that works for me, when im 'in the zone' is quite strange. Its very much like being inspired by a Muse, where the 'Muse' is an external third party. Ironically, my first burst of creativity was in the form of writing, and happened here on ats with that first post i made 6 months ago detailing my NDE experience and the amazing phenomenom i started experiencing every day.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha




Stranger danger! stranger danger!

Yeah you better!

I have aphantasia and nothing to lose!

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Justshrug

I suggest you try and consciously move the stars around and form shapes. Just think to yourself. Circle. circle. circle.circle. Over and over. See what happens.

I have tried that, so many times, probably at least a hundred hours, maybe twice that. I can't. I can't manifest or generate even a simple point or dot at will. The exercise i attempt is to manifest a dot, then a second one, then try to connect it to form a triangle. I cant get even a single dot.

If i get something, its one of the stars, and then it is immediately connecting through the three points of my body that i have tested and acknowledged to be congruent with a metaphysical interaction. As soon as the first 'dot' of the star appears, im already connecting my consciousness to it, and it immediately takes off racing, trying to get out of my grasp. Always shooting up to the up and right side of my FOV. So strange!

Edit to add: nearly every time i was in meditation and trying to catch a star, im in my bedroom with black out curtains. Any significant amount of light makes the starscape invisible to me. I believe it is still there, i just cant visualize it in any way at all.