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Who Owns The Water Above and Below ?

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posted on Sep, 7 2018 @ 08:35 PM
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originally posted by: Groot

originally posted by: Specimen
Kids cant even have lemonade stands no more without pretty much having a swat team breaking it down pretty much.

Hell, they are pretty much trying to use the residential carbon tax for breathing, which they could of made legit years ago when the economy was booming and denied any idea of climate change for years...which does nothing for the environment at all!


I totally agree.

America is free !

Right......





Free Market more or less, but drinking water and toiletry is a neccessity, but a pool, or washing a whole bunch cars, or hour long hot showers is really pushing it.




posted on Sep, 7 2018 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: BrianFlanders

Actually here in the US the population per acre is very low. There are no crowding or natural resources availability issues here. Plenty to go around, just problems with the people making the decisions and abuses by industry and other users like farms.

You think it's OK if a farmer or industry, just goes ahead and sucks all they want from wells without regard for others, lowering the aquifer so the neighboring farms or communities have no water, its OK or fair? I don't think you understand the topic here. You should read what I linked and there is plenty more info on it if you just do a search.

You have to regulate that. It's just common sense and rational.

I'm not into the Chinese idea of regulating how many children you can have. You are for that kind of regulation though?

Many of the water issues are caused by stupidity prior to modern regulations. For instance Los Angeles and Southern California. The water never existed there so they deplete other areas water. Las Vegas may be fun, but developing that where there is no water was pretty stupid.

There is no water shortage anyway. We know how to desalinate. Costs go up but its easy to do. Coastal cities in water short areas should have switched to desalination plants years ago, but it's cheaper to reroute it from somewhere else.
edit on 9/7/2018 by Blaine91555 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2018 @ 09:04 PM
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a reply to: norhoc

When greed rules our world, these things happen. Yes very sad.



posted on Sep, 7 2018 @ 09:06 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: BrianFlanders

Actually here in the US the population per acre is very low. There are no crowding or natural resources availability issues here. Plenty to go around, just problems with the people making the decisions and abuses by industry and other users like farms.


That really depends on where you live. If you were born in a populous city, you were born into the slavery of the system that allows people to live beyond nature's limits.


You think it's OK if a farmer or industry, just goes ahead and sucks all they want from wells without regard for others, lowering the aquifer so the neighboring farms or communities have no water, its OK or fair?


Nature isn't fair. Nothing is OK (or not) in reality. It's all in our heads. If the land you sit on can only support ten people without taking a thing from anywhere else and you deliberately reproduce and turn your population into 20 on the same land, you can't really complain because you already knew you were going to break the balance. And I know this has already been done. And now we're all bickering over the circumstances we were born into and the resources that we have to work with.


You have to regulate that. It's just common sense and rational.


I'm not arguing with that. I just think we should start at the root of the problem and ignore the leaves. If you live in an area that has an artificial life support system that is designed to support exponentially more people than that land would otherwise support, you're playing with fire.

All the farms and so forth are there to support a population that is far bigger than it should be. And therefore, the farms are critical systems that can't fail. Ever.

edit on 7-9-2018 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2018 @ 09:23 PM
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a reply to: BrianFlanders

No cities, no customers for farms, no income for farms, no farms.

Are you saying you want to go back to hunter gatherers? Learn how and move up here.

Some like cities, I do not, some like isolation, I do not, some like small communities, I do also. We all have the right to chose. Isn't it wonderful.

If I understand you then if the large cities got their own water through desalination, that would mean they can keep having children? They can do so if they wish, it's not future tech and then plenty of water and the wonderful thing about water is it self recycles.



posted on Sep, 7 2018 @ 09:35 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: BrianFlanders

No cities, no customers for farms, no income for farms, no farms.

Are you saying you want to go back to hunter gatherers? Learn how and move up here.

Some like cities, I do not, some like isolation, I do not, some like small communities, I do also. We all have the right to chose. Isn't it wonderful.


People (supposedly) have the right to choose. Not everyone has the wherewithal to choose. Just so you know, when I speak of things like this, I do so from a purely observational standpoint. A person like me would not survive a week in a hunter gatherer type scenario. And that is the source of much of my dissatisfaction with the way humans are living. I shouldn't be here and my existence is a blight upon the natural order of things.

I am something of a Darwinist in that I believe nature will eventually even things out regardless of whether we like it or not. Nature will force us to live within it's limits even if we get away with cheating for ages. You can't get away with cheating indefinitely. Or at least we can't as a species. You personally might be able to get away with it your whole life. The generation that is alive when the time comes to pay the piper will pay the piper whether they like it or not.

I believe humans should emulate the animals. But we won't as long as we can choose not to. So I guess it's all a moot discussion at the end of the day. When the time comes there won't be an internet to debate the matter. I guess you can enjoy the illusion that there's plenty to go around while nature still allows it.
edit on 7-9-2018 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2018 @ 09:40 PM
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The reason I first signed up to ATS was to get the word out that Michigan was trying to pass a bill to place ground water into a state owned trust. Thankfully that never passed, however, all surface water in Michigan is state or federally owned, including heavy regulation of streams, rivers, lakes, ponds and "wetlands" that include seasonal mud puddles basically.

I have a nice deep water well on my property, and although there is controversy over Ice Mountain pumping a crap load of water from the area, I will stand by their right to do so because ultimately my water rights are in the balance too. Mineral rights are a bit different here, that's more about oil and natural gas. I have those rights on my property, though often the state owns those rights and can sell them out from under you literally.

However, it is probably a matter of time before they get their mitts on my ground water, hopefully I'll be grandfathered in, likely not eventually. Best to do what you have to in regards to your water rights, be they yours or the state's, and keep your mouth shut.
edit on 7-9-2018 by MichiganSwampBuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2018 @ 09:53 PM
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If water falls or is under, where you happen to be standing? It's yours. It's that simple.
Water is pretty essential, to your," life, liberty and happiness".
My thinking is, wars have been fought over less... Sugar? Oil?

A "GOOD" cup of coffee is 80% water.

Bring "body bags, a lunch and dinner". You're/...they're, going to have a "long day".



posted on Sep, 7 2018 @ 10:45 PM
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originally posted by: murphy22
If water falls or is under, where you happen to be standing? It's yours. It's that simple.
Water is pretty essential, to your," life, liberty and happiness".
My thinking is, wars have been fought over less... Sugar? Oil?


Also, pepper, IIRC. That kind of makes me laugh when I think about it but they were damn serious about it, apparently.



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 12:12 AM
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a reply to: Groot

I may be wrong on this but collecting rain water can be harmful to ones health. Assuming you take zero measures to filter that water. It can be very acidic. I used to collect rain water illegally but I had a pebble and charcoal filter to help make it safe when I was in Oklahoma. BTW I hade a very good system working that was well hidden. I am proud of that.

Technically to federal law you could get away with it but it may cost you a pretty penny to do so. With that said doing so without the knowledge of how to clean it can be deadly.

I collect rain water here in Henderson NV during the rainy season for my plants. SHH it is illegal BTW so don’t tell mom!



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 12:31 AM
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posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 01:17 AM
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originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: Groot

I may be wrong on this but collecting rain water can be harmful to ones health. Assuming you take zero measures to filter that water. It can be very acidic. I used to collect rain water illegally but I had a pebble and charcoal filter to help make it safe when I was in Oklahoma. BTW I hade a very good system working that was well hidden. I am proud of that.

Technically to federal law you could get away with it but it may cost you a pretty penny to do so. With that said doing so without the knowledge of how to clean it can be deadly.

I collect rain water here in Henderson NV during the rainy season for my plants. SHH it is illegal BTW so don’t tell mom!


collecting rain water is illegal boogles my mind.

Have a friend who lived in Bermuda and that was basically they're only source of water . If they ran out, they had a water truck come out to fill they're tanks.



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 02:59 AM
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a reply to: Groot

Just think in 1934 the US was deemed insolvent by pres Truman,sold out the US,you think you own your land in the US?,the property and mineral rights were all sold,now the US is going broke again,these guys are going to start protecting their assets,we are only renting



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 04:40 AM
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In Finland they have started to bill in some cities of the rainwater which rains to your property and goes in city sewers, it is ridiculous and they even bill properties which do not have a city sewers nearby so basicly they are billing of a rainwater that pours down. The amount of bill for a house owner is about 30 euros a month.

I am pretty sure in future they will bill you of the air you breath.
edit on 8-9-2018 by dollukka because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 05:41 AM
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I think air will also become government property, too.

We'll all have to buy our air from Home Depot.... for only 50 bucks a tank!

Plus the standard 5 dollar environment fee.


I can't wait until that fine day, when I can start buying my oxygen tanks, can you?



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 06:08 AM
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originally posted by: turbonium1
I think air will also become government property, too.

We'll all have to buy our air from Home Depot.... for only 50 bucks a tank!

Plus the standard 5 dollar environment fee.


I can't wait until that fine day, when I can start buying my oxygen tanks, can you?


Perri-air.



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 06:21 AM
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Sparkling mineral air, bottled in France, and imported to America!


Dasani-air, smooth and silky - but very expensive. Air you might only suck up for those very special occasions!



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 06:26 AM
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Of course, air is a precious, limited resource. It is another fossil-fuel, like oil is.


Dino-breath.



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 06:31 AM
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Knowing a bit about water and water rights, there's an age old saying in the west...

"Whiskey's for drinkin'; Water's for fightin' over!"

And, boy is it ever true!

Then there's the law, the age old law...

"First in time; First in right"

Think about that one for a minute!!



ETA - Not so incidentally, it is the 'First in time; first in right' laws which are the source of the collecting rain water issue. Just because you're at the source of the water does not mean you have rights to the water. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but it's true. This is not something new either! These laws date back to the early 1800's.
edit on 9/8/2018 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 06:43 AM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Knowing a bit about water and water rights, there's an age old saying in the west...

"Whiskey's for drinkin'; Water's for fightin' over!"

And, boy is it ever true!

Then there's the law, the age old law...

"First in time; First in right"

Think about that one for a minute!!



ETA - Not so incidentally, it is the 'First in time; first in right' laws which are the source of the collecting rain water issue. Just because you're at the source of the water does not mean you have rights to the water. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but it's true. This is not something new either! These laws date back to the early 1800's.


That was probably right around the time we were still murdering the native Americans for their land, right?



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