NTS The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world

a reply to: ketsuko

It's possible that Christ simply had to die to demonstrate that He would come back to life after 3 days. He had to do that as proof that he was not just a false prophet like the rest of them. So His sacrifice lifted Him above all prophets & established Him for all time as The Son of God who was without sin.

That Sin was the sin of Adam & Eve, & the curse it brought to all of the flesh. He proved by rising again from the dead that He was not held in death as all mortals are cursed to do. So He was free from the sin. The sin. Not that we will be free from all of our sins. We are just free from Adam & Eve's Sin if we follow Jesus & become sons of God instead of remaining as sons of Adam
But if we continue sinning daily & imagine that Jesus has paid for all our sinning then we are probably deluded. God can still forgive us but it would be better for us if we were made to pay for our sins

The most recent thread in this series is God is faithful

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SourcePage

Upon reflection, my comment above looks like it leans toward universal salvation.

That's not true, I was replying to the people in the thread so far whom I know to be all professing Christians, and Christians believe Christ died to redeem us. If we believe in Him and what He did ... the central reasoning in this series of Disraeli's threads, then I don't believe we will see Hell, but we will face Judgment. All do that.

I like me some history. I just delved into my memory banks, so thank you for the poke, I have enjoyed the contemplations on history and religion you provoked.

Reflecting on ancient Christian teachings, speckled with some Plato metaphysics, I *think* the conditions of Salvation and Damnation work like this in the oldest traditions :

Only through Jesus you can reach the Father. Through faith. Through being Christlike.
Christ and Plato's metaphysics are kinda in alignment regarding the projection of the form creating the half real reflection of the physical world. If we are not understanding being Christlike (reflecting Christ in your daily lives) and/or Platos metaphysics we would mistakenly call THIS existence REALITY, which it is not, it is a reflection of an Original.

The condition of life on earth (half existence or reflection of original existence) allows you through Christ to become part of the original condition (heaven or true Reality ), that is be with God in the heaven condition, as they were before original sin. Remember God said to the first man ' where are you?' I believe the ancient Genesis text simplistically describes how humans broke away from their original condition (disobedience in the ACTUAL reality) in paradise (btw the apple is a metaphor it wasn't really an apple)

It is the receiving and building up of Grace through life that will lead you to heaven

When you die having either Built up Grace or not, you will:

1. Be in heaven ,which if you are Christlike you already are kinda there in life. "On earth as it is in heaven".
Saints have received the Grace required to Go straight to Door 1 (eternal)

2. Go to Purgatory/Paradise (people debate if heaven and paradise are the same) let's just call this a higher condition where you are in a state of cleansing or purifying in order to go into heaven.
Luke 16:22 Purgatory = "bosom of Abraham" where Lazaraus was taken by angels, which both the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, following early Christian writers, understand as a temporary state of souls awaiting entrance into Heaven.

The Harrowing of Hell was when Christ changed the "Condition" of the righteous after death. Allowing for Condition 1 and 2 for humans.
The final condition in 1 or 2 is the Resurrection of the Dead and the return to the ACTUAL reality of God condition aka heaven, aka "on earth as it is in heaven"



3. Be in/ Be broken down in "LIMBO' or hell/ Sh'eol, the condition of hell is the opposite of heaven and where/when what remains of you is broken down to nothing in this condition (non eternal)

When the Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek in Alexandria around 200 BC, the word "Hades" (Hell /Greek underworld) was substituted for She'ol.

The end condition of 3 Hell, is the breakdown of your existence to nothing. The means of breaking down whether in flames or recycling of energy or smiting is irrelevant imo.
In this condition they have no access to condition 1 or 2 (original reality with God aka Heaven) their end condition is they eventually cease to exist, and that is what I believe is the point of condition 3.


At the end of the day it is your building up of Grace in life which takes you to Door 1 2 or 3

How to build up grace through works or just faith or works and faith is up to the busy doctrinal bees to battle out.

In a nutshell, Luke 16 describes Doors 1 through to 3
…22One day the beggar died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. And the rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham from afar, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me..."

We take ourselves to each of these conditions by our building of grace in the existence in the half reality. We aren't sent to these conditions, Receiving grace IS ALREADY A JUDGEMENT.

The judgments, that is the rules to becoming one of these three conditions were already in existence before before we were born, how you have faith and live is what condition you become. The end judgement has already happened SOMEWHERE/WHEN. Judgement is simultaneous with your first moment and your entire life and afterlife. Our half reality timeline is not Christ/Heavens timeline.

The "end judgment" is possibly being with Jesus in the condition of 1 or 2 after YOU became by YOUR lives and faith that condition. Bit like the Harry Potter's "the sorting hat " , it already knows where you need to be by WHO you ARE.

According to Jesus, the end condition for this half reality is "Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven". That came out of Christ's mouth. Pretty simple huh.
I've always admired the Orthodox church that mostly didn't include Revelation in their bible as it contradicts their Lords words which technically should have been the last word on the subject and perfect.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

wow you waffle allot and you failed to mention the relevant truth affecting us adversely in todays world.
That the Baphomet is flooding the world with anti christen evil baphomet archetypes (trannies). The end judgment day is where they be sent to the lake of fire.

originally posted by: AthlonSavage
a reply to: zazzafrazz

wow you waffle allot and you failed to mention the relevant truth affecting us adversely in todays world.
That the Baphomet is flooding the world with anti christen evil baphomet archetypes (trannies). The end judgment day is where they be sent to the lake of fire.

I don't post in this forum often, so I'll say as much as I like, how I like.


I personally don't think the Christian tradition on Salvation is a simple paragraph.
But thank you for your reply about what I missed out, I wasn't discussing "Baphomet" or trannies (how odd you felt the need to post that) but replying to Ketsuko about Judgement.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Excuses, excuses. Salvation is actually very simple its simply the path to saving ourselves from the things which lure us to downfall. My reply wasn't rude it just interrupted you making something sound allot more complicated than it really is. Another trick of the devils minions and them are easy to spot cause they ride in the Baphomet chariot to earn their points of approval.

a reply to: AthlonSavage

OK I'll let you speak for me in future on all matters Christian, will that make you feel better?

a reply to: AthlonSavage

What exactly did I post that was not part of Christianity?

The most recent thread in this series is;
If anyone is in Christ

I'm curious, what kind of animal do you believe that God slaughtered in garden of eden to cover the effects of the sins of Adam for not defending his wife and that of Eve for disobeying God? Any corrolation between this act of sacrificing one of his creations for us, and that of Jesus Christ on the cross?

a reply to: Theocrat
We are not told that he sacrificed anything in Eden. Since the sacrifice of animals does not really cancel out sin (we learn that from the epistle to the Hebrews), why would he bother?
I'm working on the premise that God never needed animal sacrifice; all he ever wanted from us was the self-offering. The practice of sacrifice in the Old Testament was simply a symbolic act pointing towards the need for self-offering.
See, for example, the thread Atonement in the Old Testament
The work of Christ as a decisive self-offering is covered in detail in my most recent thread, so I won't repeat it all now.