Russia says space station leak could be deliberate sabotage

a reply to: BigDave-AR

I am not an expert but i have experience with such. Perhaps the zirconium is what is throwing things off for me. Never the less the properties resemble steel. The capsule is said to be made out of aluminum.

According to the diagram the plate is about 1/2 in from the rest of the layers. In the pic we see some type of ledge where the plate is bent out 3 or 4 inches. That does not happen according to the diagram where the walls appear to be spherical. That is why i say something is off. You have one big hole drilled from the outside and one small hole drilled from the inside.

a reply to: Wolfenz

Nice pics. That clears most of my questions up.

The bigger hole was not on an outside layer of the craft but the smaller hole was drilled toward the outside of the ship.

There really is no way to know how long those other layers of shielding could hold pressure or if any of them were damaged.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
There really is no way to know how long those other layers of shielding could hold pressure or if any of them were damaged.

The outer layers are only protection against micrometeorites, they are not under any kind of pressure, the pressure is sustained by the aluminium alloy hull.

I still remember MIR problems and collision. Russians have low standards and lack of safety procedures. The hole was probably made on Earth when someone was high on vodka.

a reply to: ArMaP

Just adds to the mystery then.

Someone would have had to get a drill and get under those ducts and such.

Now i wonder how they get an airtight seal with those large holes???

We can see where the small hole is that the two layers come together at that point and it was drilled through the over lapping metal. There are two 90 degree angles that create a cavity where something was passing through the large holes.In order for that metal to form a seal there would have to be another layer of something to hold the pressure.

not trying to be a bother but i am slow at visualization i suppose.

www.dailystar.co.uk...

Russian space bosses are reportedly planning to send their cosmonauts out to investigate the leak in Soyuz MS-09.

Looks like they may go out for a walk to see how deep the person drilled.

SS cosmonauts will hope to find out more information about the hole – and find what “plugged it” until the leak on August 30

I still think there was no plug and the other layers may have been holding pressure until they failed. Otherwise someone would have to have been messing around in that area in order to accidentally remove the plug. Also there would have been some remnants of a plug found in the area.

I would not want to be up there right now while they all give each other funny eyes and in the back of their minds and thinking someone is trying to kill them.

Now if we compare this to the movies then someone recently drilled the hole and they will strike again at anytime.



eta if they are going out to look for the plug then that suggest there would be a hole all the way thru the craft. Perhaps bad reporting and they just want to check. I gather that they must have swept the inside for any trace of the plug if they are now extending the search area to outer space.

originally posted by: howtonhawky

Russian space bosses are reportedly planning to send their cosmonauts out to investigate the leak in Soyuz MS-09.

Looks like they may go out for a walk to see how deep the person drilled.

I saw that on another forum and someone that speaks Russian said it was a bad translation, what the original source in Russian said was that they would look for the leak/plug in their next extra-vehicular activity, they are not going do one EVA just to look for the hole/plug.

I still think there was no plug and the other layers may have been holding pressure until they failed. Otherwise someone would have to have been messing around in that area in order to accidentally remove the plug. Also there would have been some remnants of a plug found in the area.

The other layers are not airtight, they are only there to stop/slow down the micrometeorites. Their idea is that, if there was a plug it may have lost any moisture it had while in the vacuum and pushed outside by the pressure inside the craft. If that happened it's likely that plug would still be in the space between the hull and the micro meteorite shield.

I would not want to be up there right now while they all give each other funny eyes and in the back of their minds and thinking someone is trying to kill them.

I doubt they think it was done after lift-off.

eta if they are going out to look for the plug then that suggest there would be a hole all the way thru the craft. Perhaps bad reporting and they just want to check. I gather that they must have swept the inside for any trace of the plug if they are now extending the search area to outer space.

See above.

a reply to: ArMaP

So they are kinda saying in not so many words that the hole goes all the way through the craft.

Well that theory is lacking to. They spec pic you posted shows a 1/2in void between the aluminum and the rest of the shielding. So the plug if pushed out would be in that void unless the plug was very long and extended through the wall of the craft and not just the aluminum layer.

Doubtful that they would not have found the long plug extending out through the outer shell of the craft during inspection on the ground.

It is all adding up to sabotage and the culprit being on board.

Perhaps they are being tight lipped and throwing everyone for a curve in order to placate the crews until they get home.

No way that craft was sent to space with a plug in the hull. The drilling likely took place within an hour or so before they noticed the oxygen loss if we are getting correct facts here.

Hopefully they have bagged up the drill bits for finger printing but that may cause someone to panic.

What would the headlines looklike if it turns out that an american tried to sabotage a russian ship...

There is no way the ship left the ground with a hole drilled all the way through the hull. If that were the case then that would mean the plug was over looked during the various inspections and other flights.

No way someone on the ground could get away with doing such and not be noticed.

I highly doubt their is a relaxed atmosphere where these ships are made.

How many times has this craft been used?

originally posted by: howtonhawky
So they are kinda saying in not so many words that the hole goes all the way through the craft.

No, they are saying nothing like that.

Well that theory is lacking to. They spec pic you posted shows a 1/2in void between the aluminum and the rest of the shielding. So the plug if pushed out would be in that void unless the plug was very long and extended through the wall of the craft and not just the aluminum layer.

That's why they said that would be looking for the plug, because, if there was one and was pushed out by the pressure inside the craft it would be somewhere between the aluminium hull and the micrometeorite shield.

No way that craft was sent to space with a plug in the hull. The drilling likely took place within an hour or so before they noticed the oxygen loss if we are getting correct facts here.

When they first noticed the leak the crew was sleeping and it was a very small leak, at a rate of 0.8 mmHg per hour (the maximum considered normal is 0.5 mmHg per hour), but during the night it increase to 4 mmHg per hour. I suppose that's one of the reasons they think the hole was plugged with something that got lose.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: howtonhawky
There really is no way to know how long those other layers of shielding could hold pressure or if any of them were damaged.

The outer layers are only protection against micrometeorites, they are not under any kind of pressure, the pressure is sustained by the aluminium alloy hull.

I agree the Whipple shield isn’t designed to hold pressure but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t holding back some pressure despite not being expressly designed for it. As far as the people that think it could have been drilled on station they would find the metal chips and shavings in the filtration system, samething would be true if it was a MM strike they’re would have been anymore debris in the filters, and I can guarantee they’ve checked the filtration system.

What do you think about the possibility of bringing the module back to terra firma? I know they can’t rented with that module attached to the reentry capsule.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
How many times has this craft been used?

As it still exists, once, they burn on re-entry.

originally posted by: BigDave-AR
I agree the Whipple shield isn’t designed to hold pressure but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t holding back some pressure despite not being expressly designed for it.

How would that happen, if the shield is not airtight?

As far as the people that think it could have been drilled on station they would find the metal chips and shavings in the filtration system, samething would be true if it was a MM strike they’re would have been anymore debris in the filters, and I can guarantee they’ve checked the filtration system.

Exactly, the ISS is a highly controlled space, they monitor everything.

What do you think about the possibility of bringing the module back to terra firma? I know they can’t rented with that module attached to the reentry capsule.

That module is made to burn on re-entry.

I do not understand why they would consider going outside to view the damage if the hole did not protrude completely thru the hull.

Dave is correct that there would be some metal shavings.

I will let them figure it out but it seems like the hole was only drilled through part of the ship and the outer layers held some pressure even though they were not designed to do so.

No way the ship passed inspection with a hole and a plug all the way through.

Looking at the marks it was done quickly and in a spot to not be noticed. Perhaps they did clean up the shavings.

later

Exactly, the ISS is a highly controlled space, they monitor everything.

Everything except the soyuz. I suspect there are no cameras in that area and it would the perfect spot to drill a hole without being seen. Maybe one of the only spots someone could get away with such unnoticed. Add that to the fact the hole was drilled in a spot where there was not easy access and it was covered by ducts. They were hoping for total depressurization of the iss.

Most likely to me is that the hole is through the first layer only and someone was paid to go in while on the ground and put the hole in it. If the hole is all the way through then it was done in space.

Well I understand that but say the shuttle was still operational it could swallow it up no?

originally posted by: Starhooker
a reply to: Wolfenz

The big holes are probably for cutting weight and could double for tie offs of needed. But why so sloppy? One would think that anyone working on it would be very skilled and know how to drill a dang hole. It's fishy. Like someone made a quick last minute effort to sabotage it. But if that's the case, why such a small hole? It's a mystery

NO Sabotage..

MY Guess is that the Thermal insulation Cover/Padding kept on floating .

Seeing that it was in space ! no Gravity .. and it also explains why the Drill Skips

who ever tried too do this.. was not Grounded/Anchored properly
when they attempted too drill, is my assumption ..

i still say someone tried place a screw too hold down the Thermal Cover/Pad
and place some black substance ( like glue ) on the bulkhead too hold down the cover or Padding ..


and not realizing that the would drill deeper then the should of.. causing a leakage out in space ?

ive seen many new sites saying sabotage .. or a Suicidal Astronaut ? WOW! LOL

I have a feeling a it was a Accidental Error

The Mystery Driller :: Now if i drill here and place a Screw
too hold down the Thermal Cover/pad in Place who would know !!

originally posted by: howtonhawky
Everything except the soyuz. I suspect there are no cameras in that area and it would the perfect spot to drill a hole without being seen.

Vision is not that important when they are monitoring air pressure in real time. If someone made the hole when Soyuz was already docked to the ISS the air pressure would drop at that moment, but that was not what happened, as they noticed the pressure drop while all the crew was sleeping.

Unless there's someone else aboard the ISS they don't know about.

Maybe one of the only spots someone could get away with such unnoticed. Add that to the fact the hole was drilled in a spot where there was not easy access and it was covered by ducts. They were hoping for total depressurization of the iss.

Only if they didn't know what they were doing, such a small hole would not result if total depressurization.

Most likely to me is that the hole is through the first layer only and someone was paid to go in while on the ground and put the hole in it. If the hole is all the way through then it was done in space.

The hole is only on one layer, that aluminium alloy shell, the astronauts/cosmonauts said they could see something behind the hole, that's why they ruled out it being made by a micrometeorite.

originally posted by: Wolfenz
i still say someone tried place a screw too hold down the Thermal Cover/Pad
and place some black substance ( like glue ) on the bulkhead too hold down the cover or Padding ..

What black substance are you talking about, there was none of that there.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Wolfenz
i still say someone tried place a screw too hold down the Thermal Cover/Pad
and place some black substance ( like glue ) on the bulkhead too hold down the cover or Padding ..

What black substance are you talking about, there was none of that there.

I think he’s mistaking post epoxy patch.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Wolfenz
i still say someone tried place a screw too hold down the Thermal Cover/Pad
and place some black substance ( like glue ) on the bulkhead too hold down the cover or Padding ..

What black substance are you talking about, there was none of that there.

Say Again????

glue? Tar ?

care too explain what is ? and what purpose its on the bulk head ?

MY guess was too Keep the Thermal Sheet/Padding what have you.. attached too the inner wall ( bulk Head )