The tumor on Americas soul and the people that want it

originally posted by: highvein

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
But the question remains - Who spends their entire life working for free just because it's the right thing to do?

There is one working for free in the White House right now.

The billionaire? How noble.

a reply to: DBCowboy

No that is big pharma. Cancer drugs are worth mega bucks ... political angles can be bought .

Money talks .. b.s. walks.

Sad but true. The longer we live, needing their meds ... the better they live !

Cough cough, anyone got some benadril ? (Sp)

a reply to: DBCowboy

It's really simple their job is to make us need them. Offer the illusion of subjective freedoms and let the peons use them against each other subsequently allowing us to ask for less freedoms due to those who cant handle that responsibility.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Pharmaceutical companies don't find cures.

They find treatments.

Cures mean that the customer only visits once. Treatments means you have a customer for life.

_______________________________________________________

Now wars.

If we actually fought to wina war, then it'd be done.

But we don't fight wars to win anymore.

We fight wars to perpetuaute wars.


__________________________________________________________

Imagine a doctor saying you have a tumor.

Now conventional chemotherapy would get rid of it, but instead, they give you just enough chemo to reduce the tumor and keep you coming back.

Over and over again, chemo just enough to keep youalive and coming back, but not enough chemo to end the cancer.


___________________________________________________________

That is America, and American politics today. The politicians don't want to find a cure, because they want you to keep coming back over and over again.

Be it poverty, drugs, economy, social security, healthcare, national defense.


The powers that be want the tumor to exist just enough to keep us as a customer but not enough that it'd kill us.

I have been a nurse for years and have witnessed the profit driven element in current medicine taking over in the US. If you ever need to seek medical attention, please remember that this is now about making money. Have your guard up like you would when buying a car.

If someone wants to put you on a long term medicine do your research before you make that decision. In many instances there are alternatives that will actually help your body, rather than mask your symptoms. People always talk about drug side effects, they are not side effects, they are effecting your body as much as the effect you are taking the drug for...Just asking you guys to be cautious and research, get a second or third opinion before you get on the drug bandwagon.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BrianFlanders

My favorite quote from "Serenity" was when Jayne said, "If you can't do something smart, do something right."


Not too many want to do whats smart or right any more.

If your job is politics, then doing it smart and right is creating a perpetual job. That means you never want to solve problems. If you did, they wouldn't need you anymore.

Perhaps this is why the Founders never envisioned or wanted a professional political class.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
Of course they find cures. Are you seriously that nieve

There are actually great alternatives to chemo and radiation therapy for cancer . The mainstream medical practices have largely ignored these therapies because chemo and radiation are so profitable. I guarantee you they could have had much more effective treatment years ago, that were much less harmful to the patient but they were not allowed to become mainstream. This is not conspiracy theory, I could do a thread on this alone. Profit drives medicine today and no one wants to loose it's most profitable treatment.

Type 2 diabetes is another huge one. It can be managed with diet alone, not the diet given to you in mainstream medicine, but you will be told you need pill or shots. I know this cure, requires more of the patient and frankly, some would just prefer to take shots and eat what they want, but their is an actual cure for this and it is food.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: highvein
a reply to: BrianFlanders

His salary is nothing compared to his wealth.

It also has nothing to do with him doing the job for free.

If he didn't have any savings or any other source of income, do you think he'd be giving his salary away?

If the moon was the color of black could we still see it? If the sea was made of acid would you still swim in it? See those questions don't matter because they are based on a scenario that is not part of reality. The reality is, he is doing the job for free.

This is really bizarre logic but it comes from someone who is apparently a Trump supporter so I'll leave it alone.

And just so you know. I'm not a partisan so I'm not going to get into a protracted debate with you over that foolishness. The point is if you need medical care and you go to a doctor who has no other money (source of income), he will get compensated for his time in some fashion or he won't help you.

As a general rule, people do not work for free. The mindset that believes the world will be fine without money (or something that is used as a substitute for it) is insane. Your doctor isn't doing his thing as a hobby. He wants to pay his bills. If you drag yourself into an ER staffed with people who don't get paid at 3 AM on a Friday night, you will probably find an empty building.

The OP didn’t speculate that the doctor should work for free. I believe the theory was the doctor shouldn’t perpetuate the illness idefinitely as a source of income but should instead honestly treat it to resolve it as fast as possible. Unfortunately quickly resolving maladies would deeply cut into the profits of medical CEOs, big pharma, medical insurance companies, etc.

And then there’s that pesky “Do no harm” issue...

a reply to: Lab4Us

The difficulty with some things is that a cure may not be possible now or ever.

Some thing, like cancer, are as much genetic as they are anything else. Some diseases are highly individualized depending as much on you as they do on anything else making a cure that will work for everyone very tough to come up with.

The biggest problem I have with the "they have cures for all of it" conspiracy is that given what we know about some of these diseases, it just may not be true.

I also know that the way intervention into the market operates, things are skewed beyond all recognition of how things would be without that tampering. How much is too much? I don't know, but the reality is that we have a global market with pharma, and lots of countries have price controls and interventions that other countries ending up subsidizing. That means we have a lot of pricing inconsistencies.

I'm not sure that instituting a globally controlled price system would fix anything and might actually end up meaning less overall, but hey, we'd all suffer and continue to blame the companies together. And when the government of the world finally nationalized it all, then we could shift the blame onto them for wanting us all to die except for their chosen few in Elysium.

originally posted by: Lab4Us

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: highvein
a reply to: BrianFlanders

His salary is nothing compared to his wealth.

It also has nothing to do with him doing the job for free.

If he didn't have any savings or any other source of income, do you think he'd be giving his salary away?

If the moon was the color of black could we still see it? If the sea was made of acid would you still swim in it? See those questions don't matter because they are based on a scenario that is not part of reality. The reality is, he is doing the job for free.

This is really bizarre logic but it comes from someone who is apparently a Trump supporter so I'll leave it alone.

And just so you know. I'm not a partisan so I'm not going to get into a protracted debate with you over that foolishness. The point is if you need medical care and you go to a doctor who has no other money (source of income), he will get compensated for his time in some fashion or he won't help you.

As a general rule, people do not work for free. The mindset that believes the world will be fine without money (or something that is used as a substitute for it) is insane. Your doctor isn't doing his thing as a hobby. He wants to pay his bills. If you drag yourself into an ER staffed with people who don't get paid at 3 AM on a Friday night, you will probably find an empty building.

The OP didn’t speculate that the doctor should work for free. I believe the theory was the doctor shouldn’t perpetuate the illness idefinitely as a source of income but should instead honestly treat it to resolve it as fast as possible. Unfortunately quickly resolving maladies would deeply cut into the profits of medical CEOs, big pharma, medical insurance companies, etc.

And then there’s that pesky “Do no harm” issue...

Have you considered the doctor may have been taught to perpetrate that illness , for this to be a thing it could only be a thing if it was taught, therefore implemented on an educational level.

a reply to: DBCowboy

So if I get an STD in the US what do they do, give me a sponge bath?

I develop a hernia and they just try to push it back in every week?

Mother needs a hip replacement, here's some opioids?

I mean the politics I somewhat agree, bipartisanship isn't seemingly popular in the US. So inevitably an issue that could take a few months can drag on for years... Yet McCain was the scum of the earth...

When it comes to war their is rules of engagement and human rights. Can't exactly get away with annihilation of people's these days.

I've never experienced war, hope I never do but I'm not blind to it's effects. The suffering of your own soldiers during the Iraq and Afghan war was a defining thing for me in understanding conflict. Train warriors and ask them to Peacekeep without the proper training (mainly mental) and you end up with civilians dead and soldiers suffering. You tell me how you "desert storm" campaigns like that.

I never even got into fighting wars for profit and testing the morality of dedicated troops. It all has an effect.

Again I agree with some if what you said but I've came to the conclusion that most governments of the world operate on a reactionary basis, I think sometimes we give them too much credit in their foresight.

I see it more like witchdoctors trying to cure cancer, they're unequipped for the job and their efforts end up equalling complacency.

Then again there's plenty of idiots in the world, enough to go round. A guy goes to the doctor's and says "doc, I have a lump on my elbow" and the doctor proceeds to say "yes Sir, that's your elbow" then you've got a problem. Sometimes the system is abused, sometimes it's hardly ever utilized, like the education system.

The UK isn't all that different, when it comes to issues like the ones you present I can't say it's complacency on government's part or some kind of conspiracy against decent people.

Fact is people are not all that decent, we're good and bad individually. The "get yours" mentality of the world and the maybe 1/100 who attempt to fight the rising tide.

Face it we're all screwed up and kinda crazy. Been this way since recorded history regardless of what aspect of human life you wish to look at.

So yeah, don't put too much stock into any government. Heck even people. Life's often like a game of hungry hippos, eat all you want but you're still losing your marbles if you know what I mean?

a reply to: DBCowboy


Maybe you should try some of Alex Jones' amazing concoctions. I hear they cure everything plus bring salvation and eternal life.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Lab4Us

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: highvein
a reply to: BrianFlanders

His salary is nothing compared to his wealth.

It also has nothing to do with him doing the job for free.

If he didn't have any savings or any other source of income, do you think he'd be giving his salary away?

If the moon was the color of black could we still see it? If the sea was made of acid would you still swim in it? See those questions don't matter because they are based on a scenario that is not part of reality. The reality is, he is doing the job for free.

This is really bizarre logic but it comes from someone who is apparently a Trump supporter so I'll leave it alone.

And just so you know. I'm not a partisan so I'm not going to get into a protracted debate with you over that foolishness. The point is if you need medical care and you go to a doctor who has no other money (source of income), he will get compensated for his time in some fashion or he won't help you.

As a general rule, people do not work for free. The mindset that believes the world will be fine without money (or something that is used as a substitute for it) is insane. Your doctor isn't doing his thing as a hobby. He wants to pay his bills. If you drag yourself into an ER staffed with people who don't get paid at 3 AM on a Friday night, you will probably find an empty building.

The OP didn’t speculate that the doctor should work for free. I believe the theory was the doctor shouldn’t perpetuate the illness idefinitely as a source of income but should instead honestly treat it to resolve it as fast as possible. Unfortunately quickly resolving maladies would deeply cut into the profits of medical CEOs, big pharma, medical insurance companies, etc.

And then there’s that pesky “Do no harm” issue...

Have you considered the doctor may have been taught to perpetrate that illness , for this to be a thing it could only be a thing if it was taught, therefore implemented on an educational level.

No, I don’t really think it’s that deep or ALL docs would do it. I do think the American Medical Association keeps medical costs artificially inflated by controlling access to mecical schools and limiting the amount of MDs practicing.

But here’s an example...real life. I am 60, blood pressure averages 110/70 or so, cholesterol around 120, etc. Every time I go to my primary care manager, verify everything is good, they try to reschedule me 3 months later for my next check up. Every time I tell them that since I have zero medical concerns and all blood tests were normal (or better than the norm), I’ll take an appointment six months from now for my next check up.

I would actually go a year, but have had three stents placed in my heart and one lithotripsy on each kidney, so I like to see my blood work more than annually. My cardiologist also reviews annually. Quarterly PCM visits is way overkill unless there was a reason to follow up. I have access to all bloodwork the day it is taken, with any anomalies highlighted, so Inalways know if there is something to follow up. I wonder how many of his patients just blindly come in quarterly with zero medical concerns just because they were scheduled?

a reply to: DBCowboy

Yep, pretty much, for the elderly and the unfortunate ill, the US is death camp.

I live in an area heavily occupied by retirees and every year, we watch one get their cancer and then be kept miserably alive for 9 to 12 months on useless chemo, and then they die of the side effects. Basically, we are all just sitting out here waiting to get our cancer.

a reply to: DBCowboy

a reply to: BrianFlanders

good job turning it into Trump

a reply to: DBCowboy

Makes me want the imperial court back where a king/Emperor demands people to be cured or you'll be killed for it if not cured. Also people aren't trying to survive with money like crazy because king is too busy trying to protect his borders by hiring everyone in arms.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
But the question remains - Who spends their entire life working for free just because it's the right thing to do?

If you do that, they'd call you communist and attack you for it.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

As a general rule, people do not work for free.

Except for the people that do. Like volunteers and our current President.

a reply to: Jefferton

The billionaire? How noble.

And yet it is more than past Presidents have done. What would you call them?

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BrianFlanders

My favorite quote from "Serenity" was when Jayne said, "If you can't do something smart, do something right."


Not too many want to do whats smart or right any more.

If your job is politics, then doing it smart and right is creating a perpetual job. That means you never want to solve problems. If you did, they wouldn't need you anymore.

Perhaps this is why the Founders never envisioned or wanted a professional political class.

I pretty much agree with this but they did set it up wrong if they didn't want that. There should have been more strict term limits and there should have been term limits on every single political office. I'd go as far as to say that it shouldn't even be possible for someone to make a career out of working for the FBI.

Anytime you have a large number of people who get lodged in high offices and never leave you're going to have problems with corruption. Corruption is always going to be a problem anyway but when you have professional government employees who are in for life, that just makes corruption easy.

However, it does need to be said that government is an inherently bad idea. It's just that there really isn't a better one so we have to go around and around and debate about what's the worst government we'll tolerate. We would prefer not to have to tolerate anything unpleasant.