Human mutations.

I didnt really know where else to put this..

Ive always wondered about future human evolution. (I was inspired by a game called shadowrun wwaaay back when i was younger, which consisted of a world filled with human cybernetics, complete corporate rule,Mega cities, USA breaking into diffrent republics and the human species branches off into 5 different classes of meta-humans, such as, 1 out of 5 humans mutate in a meta. While the other 4 stay the same)

Anyhow irrelevance aside.

^Is that possible? Ive emailed a DR. in DNA who is helping research the GENOME project and he said no it wasnt possible, Im not quiet sure what his exact words are but he said we all whould have to evovle as awhole since we`re the same species and we all have the same basic human dna patterns, but dont quote me on this.

Also, ive read that in about 90 years most humans will have a 6th finger..theres already medical reports of this.

Any other predicted mutations expected or known about?


[edit on 22-2-2005 by stricklyrubbadub]

As far as the 6th finger goes, I'd heard the exact opposite. As time passed, we were going to lose our pinky finger.

So one of two things are possible: Either pinky ring makers are a looooong term stock to invest in, or they aren't. You make the call

hey the greys have 4 fingures and their an old race.....

The mutation as given in the Shadowrun universe is really not possible, given what we know about the process today.

While it's technically possible for Homo Sapiens Sapiens to speciate into multiple sentient varieties, the Goblinization (or mutation-of-an-individual-into-another-species-post-birt) isn't going to happen.

Speciation would happen were several groups of humans trapped in radically different environments, and were forced to adapt to the environments. The change would take place over a long time (ie. more than one human lifetime) and would probably be unnoticable at first. It's also most likely that it would be a physical change (given that we don't have scientific proof of any magical- or psychic abilities.) A widening of the eyes, reducing binocular vision but improving peripheral, perhaps, or the development of larger feet if dealing with wet, spongy ground.

The important thing would be to keep the groups isolated. Current predictions for human evolution don't assume this, though, because of our interconnectedness due to technology. Because of that, evolutionary trends are made on a species-wide scale, simply because there are no sufficiently isolated pockets of humans to evolve differently. While there are isolated groups, they're either not completely isolated (the Yanomami, for example, still interact with outsiders), or are not expected to survive as an isolated culture for long enough for biological differences to be noticed.

As for the increasing- or decreasing number of digits? Polydactyly is a dominant trait, so if you were born with extra fingers or toes it's likely that any children of yours will also have more than the usual number. In reality, outside of our nice technologically-insulated society though, it's currently selected against by environmental pressures: The make-up of the human wrist provides the strongest support for a hand with 5 fingers, not 4 or 6.

I don't know about that. My pinky fingers are abnormally smaller and skinnier than average when compared to the rest of my finger & hand size vs. everyone I know. My hand functions normally except when playing Bass guitar. It's a real stretch on the frets. When lifting weights I notice my pinkies don't even do anything. They barely reach far enough to hold the bar or dumbell. Suppossedly I'm related to British Noblility with Irish land titles thus the genetic defect.

Goblinization is possible, but it would occur over a matter of months/years, not in a few minutes, and certainly not instantly(too much energy required for the change, even massive doses of radiation would not be sufficient alone).

It could be possible with if a severly damaged DNA (radiation or telemorase mishap?) structure replicated with cancerous speed, perhaps after stem cell anti aging treatments? when you look at the speed at which some forms of cancer metastasize, it's not impossible to see a persons entire body changed internally in a matter of months.

The exterior changes shown in Shadowrun are obviously fictitious embellishments (green skin, big teeth, squinty eyes), but that doesn't mean they're all impossible (but all the conditions probably wouldn't occur on all the people, it would be a sort of Mr. Potato Head mutation, build-a-random-freak). The Ogres had bony protrusions, bone spurs sticking out of their skin in some places, if I'm remembering the source book correctly. That's medically possbile, if the cancerous speed somehow manifested itself in the bones.

Maybe some researcher is combining cancer and stem cells with the genetic code from a fast growing mold. He's successful, hoorah they all say! What do we do with it now, someone asks. Shaking heads they all wander home, thinking of all the wonderful possibilities. Coming in the next day still full of dreams, spores are in the air. The mold dried out in the night. Unknowing they breathe deep, and oops, it replicates in the lungs. Coughing on the kids it reaches the school. The neighborhood catches the stuff in a week, in a month it's on the border of the state and in isolated pockets across the country. In a year it's everywhere, thick. The original sufferers are starting to show more severe symptoms. Nobody even knows and it's already way too late. The government radiates the population in a last ditch effort to contain the spread(you know they would too). The move backfires, the radiation speeds the growth of the mutation by a factor of 10, and on top of that, damages the DNA of all those affected, causing hideous mutations.

A rapidly advancing mutation could twist the spine or hunch the back by causing runaway growths that displace muscle and fat, and bad exzema polishes the look off with lumps and bumps and a leathery texture in addition to the oozing radiation sores. If that's not a goblin, I don't know..

How's that for a bed time story?
Mua ha ha.

I think goblinization is possible, maybe in lots of different ways. I've never really given it much thought, but I'm fairly sure medical science can't dispute it, at least not the core idea. Like I said, the speed and some of the drastic exagerations like magic reappearing and dragons and what not, ehhh...

But Goblinization/Ogreixation(I can spell it with an X if I want to damnit, it's my word!) is not only possible, but coming soon to a city near you, if I ever become a mad scientist. And I'm bringing back the Dire wolf to lease as guard beasts, but that's neither here nor there...

Are there any reports of people with extra muscles in their hands? Cause on the sides of my hands under my pinks I can make them go in and out. Its pretty cool, but it hurts if Im writing for to long.

Originally posted by Croat56
Are there any reports of people with extra muscles in their hands? Cause on the sides of my hands under my pinks I can make them go in and out. Its pretty cool, but it hurts if Im writing for to long.

I can do that, too. It's probably just an unusual muscle control thing, just like some people being able to move their ears back and forth at will or being able to flare their nostrals at will.

I think Whiskey Jack is the one that's closest to the mark. HOWEVER...PERSONSPNALY, I think The Human Race (biologicaly) is going nowhere...REALLY-REALLY fast!

Technology has padded us to the point where evolution is damn near impossible, which brings up another very different future. Can we possibly regress to a more primitive species, until our rate of technology falls off...then start over, finding ourselves in an endless loop, contantly bumping into the technological "wall" before we fall back again...and again...and again...

I head hurts!

[edit on 23-2-2005 by Toelint]

Human controllled enhancement. That is how the next stage of evolution is going to go. Genetics and Nanotechnology will be the tools to Goblinize our species.

My cousin had a son that was born with a 6th toe and is inordinately giagantic. It had never happened on either sides of the mom's and dad's family.

Interestingly, Dr. Brook Agnew writes in the Ark of Millions of Years that nephelluim children are being born again. They were the gaints and the sons of the fallen gods who mated with humans. They were 8' to 15' tall and had six fingers and six toes and some had 2 rows of teeth.

Originally posted by junglejake
As far as the 6th finger goes, I'd heard the exact opposite. As time passed, we were going to lose our pinky finger.

So one of two things are possible: Either pinky ring makers are a looooong term stock to invest in, or they aren't. You make the call

I love my pinky fingers. How are we going to type with out them?!!?!?

How about we lose our apendix? We don't need that - - maybe in a thousand years we might though??

Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by Croat56
Are there any reports of people with extra muscles in their hands? Cause on the sides of my hands under my pinks I can make them go in and out. Its pretty cool, but it hurts if Im writing for to long.

I can do that, too. It's probably just an unusual muscle control thing, just like some people being able to move their ears back and forth at will or being able to flare their nostrals at will.

Finally someone else who can do it. I show it to ppl and i love the look on their faces when they try to do it It may be a control thing, but i prefer to think we're more evolved

I can see us naturaly losing our pinkies and our noses becoming nasal slits, the most unusual thing I can do is pick things up with my feet, my toes are more flexible.

Originally posted by stricklyrubbadub
^Is that possible? Ive emailed a DR. in DNA who is helping research the GENOME project and he said no it wasnt possible, Im not quiet sure what his exact words are but he said we all whould have to evovle as awhole since we`re the same species and we all have the same basic human dna patterns, but dont quote me on this.

Also, ive read that in about 90 years most humans will have a 6th finger..theres already medical reports of this.

Any other predicted mutations expected or known about?

I am not sure I understand your question. Are you asking that are mutations possible or are you asking is the mutation of having six fingers possible?

Either way the answer is a yes. Having six fingers is dominant over having five fingers, especially in African Americans than any other ethnic group.

As far as it becoming prevalent in the next 90 years, I haven't got a clue.

Surf

Originally posted by iori_komei
I can see us naturaly losing our pinkies and our noses becoming nasal slits, the most unusual thing I can do is pick things up with my feet, my toes are more flexible.

I can pick up stuff with my feet to! Infact I can move my pinky toe independently from the rest of my toes. Dont know if thats unusual though. Also my middle toe is the same length as my index toe.

Originally posted by iori_komei
I can see us naturaly losing our pinkies and our noses becoming nasal slits, the most unusual thing I can do is pick things up with my feet, my toes are more flexible.

The problem is that, at least right now, pinkies and noses are useful to us, as a species. The pinky functions as a stabilizer when gripping things, and at least currently there's no environmental pressure to move homo sapiens sapiens towards removing this feature. Were we to find ourselves in some future condition where pinkies are a detriment, or even a beneficial gene needed to survive also tended to cause poorly-formed pinkies, you'd see it start to dissappear.

As for nasal slits, again, there's no pressure on the human genetic code to produce smaller noses (aside from the computer geek tendency towards yellow fever ). If there is, in the future, or if there's a beneficial gene that's also linked to having a smaller nose, then that may happen.

Part of the trouble is, I think, that here in the US there's a very poor understanding of evolution (or micro-evolution if you're a YEC and insist). Our understanding comes as much from RPGs and comics like the X-Men as it does from science. We've been fed stories, at least since the 1950s about the "future form of humans" being short, bald, with a big head, four-fingered hands and psychic...basically the present popular-culture view of Grayliens. So when people talk about the future evolutionary path of humanity we ignore the facts of the evolutionary process and jump straight to "We're gonna look like the aliens from X-Files."

I agree with sardion2000 if human speciation occurrs within our cultural lifetime, it will be a deliberate action. We may create people who can breathe underwater, or who can function with a low-oxygen atmosphere, for example. But that's still currently the realm of science fiction. I'd say that for our lifetimes, at least (at current 80-year estimates) we probably won't see anything. Wouldn't it be cool, though, if we could live long enough to witness it

As an aside, I just want to say that although I may sometimes seem like a grump here on ATS, I really do enjoy this place. Where else, online, can you have a discussion about Xenolinguistics, the veracity of biblical texts, and the future of human evolution in one place, with relatively educated folks