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NEWS: Pope Calls Gay Marriage Part of 'Ideology of Evil'

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posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by CAConrad0825
Why can't the people of Africa control themselves until marriage and then get tested for AIDS? If you don't know if you have it then don't do it! They send condoms down to Africa you know what they do with them? they think they are balloons! Also the child molestation thing is a side issue. The people of the church are not perfect, however their actions are still evil. Homosexuality is against the Bible, so is premarital sex, so is sexual abuse. They are all evil. The Catholic Church has apologized for their sins. It is about time for the rest of the world to take responsibility for their and to stop whining about the past and worry about the present! Personal responsibility is the basis of not just the catholic church but also a stable society. People need to realize that their actions affect the world. Whether you know it or not you may have AIDS. Get tested! Stop having sex until you know! That will stop AIDS! AIDS doesn't just show up out of no where!


I think you need to do some research into the position that women hold in some of these countries! They have very few choices in most matters. So, well, there isn't an issue of personal responsibility as far as they go, is there?




posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 07:15 AM
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thank you ZeroDeep, what a refreshing change to read a well informed and clearly very intelligent post. This site seems to mainly attracts a bunch of racist homophobic stupid right wing looneys, luckily the fact is the majority of people do not have these ridiculously stupid views whether their political views are left or right. If we could just encourage more well informed intelligent people such as yourself to contribute it would make this site so much better.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 07:19 AM
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No but the lord bless those who are forced into such situations. The unfaithful shall be punished. Why isn't the UN making a better effort of coordination with other AIDS groups to educate these people. According to Oceanographer Jaques Cousteau in an article
Published in the Courier, a publication of the United Nations Educational, Scientific
and Cultural Organization (UNESCO):




"In order to stabilize world population, it is necessary to eliminate 350,000 people a day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it's just as bad not to say it."


Is the UN really against AIDS? or maybe this is a bigger conspiracy to stabalize the worlds population? I apologize for getting away from the Pope, but i read this article with Cousteau's quote and it struck me with shock that one who loves animal life can have total disregard for those that are living. Is the UN really a good thing? Or is it the global government that some speak of as under the supposed antichrist? I personally do not agree that there is a spiritual motive behind the UN, however the hands of this organization are bloody. Just like any other government. But how can it be held accountable? Everyone acts like it is infalliable, worse than a republican defending Bush to the gates of hell. A global organization only infringes on rights of others not allows for them. I see the same with the Catholic Church during many times in history however as of late i feel that the heirarcy of the Church are more distant from common parishoners than controling. What's ur opionion of the UN or other world governments stances on AIDS?



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
.......................
I wonder about him...all his comments arent right...


And your comments are alright?....

No wonder protesters were turning agaisnt "old" Republican people at the inauguration.... that seems to be en vogue of the lefties these days....

He has his own ideas which are different with yours or others....deal with it.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by CAConrad0825
First of all i want to see proof to support your claim Zapata. Also, the pope was not addressing people like you. If you do not believe in Catholicism then he hopes that you will turn to God. The reason the Church sticks to tradition is because that is why the church has lasted. Not because it is an evil power hungry organization *cough UN cough* but a religion that has strayed from the path and is trying to make things right. I do not expect any of you to believe what the church says. I only ask that you respect the pope and those who believe. I have nothing against others and their right to their opinion but the second anyone says the words, "You are wrong" in a debate then you have lost. The issue here is not about saying that one person is wrong or right but the sharing of ideas and the denial of ignorance. I have an idea that i am the only Catholic here, so please unless you actually have something that can be supported do not comment on the church. I only try to say what i can document, not always because like all humans i make mistakes, but i try my best. I ask that the rest of you will attack the issue and not the poster or the individual. The pope is a fragile old man, who barely makes it day by day. How can you fools jeer at him without sympathy? Do you really think he wrote this book? Yes he may think this way but he can barely speak. I highly doubt that he is responsible for this book, but that does not diminsh my faith in what he says. It is my belief and i support my faith. I do not attack your beliefs, please do not attack mine.
You have a god given right to use paragraphs


While I respect your right to faith, its not reciprocated by the Church. Those of us who dont believe in god are made to think we're heading to Hell. You know, that Middle Ages construct that didnt appear in Christian texts in Jesus's time.

You ask for sympathy for the Pope. Wheres his sympathy for the victims of rape who cannot go through a pregnancy? Wheres his sympathy for those who are gay? Where? I'll tell you, no where.

You also ask for people who cant support what they say to remain silent on church. Well I guess you'll have to take our misgivings about organised religion on faith.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by General Zapata
THE POPE IS GAY!

On a less serious note, the catholic church is a lumbering dinosaur in today's world. In no way is such outmoded rhetoric and archaic dogma relevant in the lives of modern, intelligent people.


And i guess from your title you think that the ideaology from old people like Zapata is alright and only intelligent people would follow?......



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 07:36 AM
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arnold_vosloo, keep your insults out of the forums. We are not here to listen to your insults. if you can't discuss a topic without insults then do not discuss at all.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 07:38 AM
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Where is your sympathy for a man who from his birth knew he would die for humanity? Where is your sympathy for a man who spent 40 days without food or water, came to meet with his friends was betrayed by his number one and two, then beaten, crusified, and died in front of his own mother, who from the day he was concievd knew her son would die as the messiah of his people? Where is your sympathy for a man who took responsibility for what was given to him, took the hard road, and did not complain? I think death by crusafixtion and knowing it would happen is worse than being gay or having a baby that is by rape. I am not against rape in those cases, or am i against homosexuality. I just want people to see Catholicism from the other side. Also, abortion has not become an issue till this century. What a society we live in when a girl bears a child and because "she doesn't want it" (not refering to rape, incest or harm to mother cases though the percentage of these is very small in abortions) she can get rid of it. What a society we live in when a man is overjoyed that his sperm do not work? There are men in Africa who have 8 wives because they believe that it is impossible for men to be impotent. Men need to take responsibility for the child too! I cannot tell you how many rape cases there are because a guy doesn't care what happens. That is half his child too. It's a womans body but half his child. The decision of abortion (though this is not possible because of ignorance and disregard for a womans needs after a night with her tunrs into a pregnancy) needs to be made by both the mother and father.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 07:52 AM
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Please please use paragraphs. Its hard enough to read as it is.

Let me get this straight:


Originally posted by CAConrad0825
I am not against rape in those cases


And I thought we were talking about lack of sympathy for the Pope and not Jesus Christ.

I happen to respect what Jesus did but quite frankly thats about where my respect for anything Christian ends.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:10 AM
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I have two questions :

1) What does AIDS in Africa have to do with catholicism? The vast majority of africans are not catholics... yes christians of some hybrid of another but not catholics. So speaking about contraception as advocated by the pope and the catholic church is naive; and
2) The pope seems to be healthy enough to sprout condemnation on homosexual marriages, yet has been awfully silent about (a) the pedophillic and homosexual activities of priests around the world and (b) removing these same priests from the priesthood. Why would that be?




[edit on 23-2-2005 by Mynaeris]



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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He is not silent about those alegations and he
has spoken outright against them.

The issue of child abuse is not dead within the church. Also i do not believe that it is the pope who is making these statements.

Further more, the pope is not the issue of this post. His statement is. Stop attacking the speaker and attack the issue!



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by CAConrad0825
He is not silent about those alegations and he
has spoken outright against them.

The issue of child abuse is not dead within the church. Also i do not believe that it is the pope who is making these statements.

Further more, the pope is not the issue of this post. His statement is. Stop attacking the speaker and attack the issue!


You really have to indulge me by showing me details of how many of these priests were excommunicated for homosexual acts against children? If they were not is it not a reflection on the head of the church?



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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No it is not. Excommunication has not been implimented for many years. After the change from Vatican II the powers of the church have become very lax. However the frontrunner for the papacy, a Cardinal from Germany seems to be one to bring back that practice. A very hardlined conservative, he has mentioned how many should be excommunicated, such as John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, and Ted Kennedy due to there pro-abortion stance in politics.

I am not in favor of excommunication however, this is the rule of the chruch and can be implimented if the Pope wishes to. It's like our constitution. There is a process to change the rules. If you do not wish to follow that process you can leave the group. That's mainly why i love the Episcopal system of the Roman Catholic Church. The system of religious government reflects the best system of government know to man, though it is a bad one. All government is bad, it's just better than no government at all.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by CAConrad0825
No it is not. Excommunication has not been implimented for many years. After the change from Vatican II the powers of the church have become very lax. However the frontrunner for the papacy, a Cardinal from Germany seems to be one to bring back that practice. A very hardlined conservative, he has mentioned how many should be excommunicated, such as John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, and Ted Kennedy due to there pro-abortion stance in politics.

I am not in favor of excommunication however, this is the rule of the chruch and can be implimented if the Pope wishes to. It's like our constitution. There is a process to change the rules. If you do not wish to follow that process you can leave the group. That's mainly why i love the Episcopal system of the Roman Catholic Church. The system of religious government reflects the best system of government know to man, though it is a bad one. All government is bad, it's just better than no government at all.


but.....no mention of excommunicating preist who defile young boys??? just political leaders who have chosen to support the right of choice, and well, in the case of gay marriage, the rights of the states to chose.....



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by dawnstar

but.....no mention of excommunicating preist who defile young boys??? just political leaders who have chosen to support the right of choice, and well, in the case of gay marriage, the rights of the states to chose.....


The vatican does not publish who they excommunicate or what they do.... you are merely trying to look for an excuse to bash at the church....and btw kerry has not chosen the right of choice.... who gives the right of choice to those fetuses that have been aborted?

Why do gays want to marry anyways?...it is a Christian tradition...done by......the church. is not like people have to get married to be together....so why do something which is Christian if they don't agree with some of the principles of the religion?...


---edited for errors---

[edit on 23-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:29 AM
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actually, umm....what do you think people did in places like England, or Ireland, ect, before the Chatholic Church state came and took them over.....THEY partnered off and married....it might have been called by different names, but well, if was about the same thing..
thus christianity isn't the source of the ideal of marriage....

and well, just what I am susposed to be excusing here?



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
actually, umm....what do you think people did in places like England, or Ireland, ect, before the Chatholic Church state came and took them over.....THEY partnered off and married....it might have been called by different names, but well, if was about the same thing..
thus christianity isn't the source of the ideal of marriage....

and well, just what I am susposed to be excusing here?


That's the past dawnstar....and Celts used to be united by a druid, and that i know of they never did unite two people of the same sex.

and the excuse that you are looking for is to bash at Christianity. i am not a very religious person myself, but i will speak up for the rights of anyone to choose whatever religion they want. i think most religions have some good to teach people, except if these religions teach hatred towards others and condones the killings of others.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:58 AM
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well, let's see, first you say that marriage is:

"it is a Christian tradition...done by......the church. is not like people have to get married to be together....so why do something which is Christian if they don't agree with some of the principles of the religion?... "

and then you say:

""That's the past dawnstar....and Celts used to be united by a druid, and that i know of they never did unite two people of the same sex. "

which only serves to prove my point, marriage is not solely a christian intstitution, now is it?

and well, I just find it kind of humorous, that someone would mention some preist calling for the excommunication of political figures, but not the priests that molested kids!!! sorry, but come on!!! we live in america, and I am sorry, we are susposed to keep our religious views separate from government funtions, or at least try to....maybe those like Kerry and Kennedy do not necessarily believe in abortion, but feel that this is too strongly tied with their religious veiws, and therefore no acceptable to enforce on others? Gee, my bible says we should stone adulterers, so should I get elected into the congress and try to pass laws that mandate stoning as the sentence for adultury??

and well, if I am knocking the christian religion about anything, it can be tied into this statement that I made:

""I think you need to do some research into the position that women hold in some of these countries! They have very few choices in most matters. So, well, there isn't an issue of personal responsibility as far as they go, is there?"

which I am sorry, but the extent to which a society enforces their will on a portion of it, definately elimates some of the responsibility that those they enforce their will on, does it not?

so, 30 years or so down the line, just how can the neocons still use their "responsibility" excuse when talking about women's financial state, if they are working so hard to put her back into the home, dependant on their husband for the money needed to supply the family of their needs?



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 01:25 PM
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Like earlier stated the church does not publish who is excommunicated. It is none of the business of the general public. Also, since you do not agree with Christianity why do you care who they excommunicate? Maybe they have excommunicated the pedophiles, or maybe they pray for them to have a change of heart.

God forgives people for their sins. If a pedophile repents then he is forgiven by the church for his crimes against the church. Learn about the system before you comment and if it is such a joke to you why do you concern yourself with what the catholic church does? Can you not be content with your own faith and allow those who believe to enjoy theirs? Isn't the right to practice religion allowed in this country? None of us have infringed upon your beliefs, at least i have not. Attack the statements not the speaker.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
For real now: Dude the Bible flip flops on just about everything! Its the John Kerry of religous texts
The Church however has been consistent with its genocide. Ill give you that:

Some examples por favor:

God dwells in chosen temples 2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples Acts 7:48

God is seen and heard Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/ Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16

God is tired and rests Ex 31:17/ Jer 15:6
God is never tired and never rests Is 40:28

Lying approved and sanctioned Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8

Had enuf or should I keep going?????

[edit on 2/22/05 by FredT]


Out of context is fun!



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