It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Left-right madness in the USA

page: 2
22
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 02:20 PM
link   
One of the issues I see in this madness:
It's a fact that pretty much everyone (on all sides) agrees that the US government is corrupt/falling apart/needs to be fixed/what have you. However, anytime someone (again, from any side) makes a suggestion, the other sides immediately attack that person ("leftist moron", "right wing dick", etc). The actual suggestion is never TRULY looked at, and only because of the political leanings of the person suggesting it.
Political parties/sides should be entirely taken out of the equation. "well, the democrats/liberals/conservatives/whatever believe this, and I consider myself a (insert same affiliation), so I think I should also believe that" is a terrible reason to believe something. Think for yourselves, don't listen to what anyone tells you without first thinking through it with the critical voice in your head saying "hmm, is this really the best idea?" at every point.
Forget what political party someone is. Do they have a good idea that you agree with? Awesome, then help make that idea a reality.

Side note: It'd be awesome if, during political debates (and the entire process of running for a political position for that matter), it was against the rules to state your political affiliation. "My name is ____, this is my platform, I think you should vote for me because of my platform". If you mention "I'm a republican" or "I'm a democrat", you're disqualified.
Along those same lines, keep your religious affiliation out of it too.
edit on 29-8-2018 by narrator because: wording

edit on 29-8-2018 by narrator because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 02:30 PM
link   

originally posted by: wheresthebody

wtf does any of that even mean? I think that you forgot to leave yourself a trail to follow back out of that rabbit hole you've gotten lost down.

It's simple. If someone wants power, then they don't deserve it.


Alright then, let's put aside the tongue-in-cheek and explain it to a bright guy like you. I'm a Christian. To a Christian, homosexuality is perversion, "gay marriage" perversion. We do not approve of making homosexuality a societal institution. We do not subscribe to Hollywood sleaze. Everybody knows liberals are quite socialistic. People that subscribe to evils are, in fact, as possessed of their evil as the child of God His Spirit, hence all the rabid anger form the left and consistent, anti-Christian agendas. Though I believe that was in what I said, another way, there then, in plainer English.

Now, I do have a moral compass, and I do have a God, do have eternal life by His Spirit. I am quite stable, know what I believe and don't evaluate anything by shallow emotions, don't really even feed at your left-right trough. I also know exactly why I believe what I believe, in fact, know God in the Greek epignosis sense, that is personally know Him. (And maybe it's some of you that don't really exist? In fact, God calls the spiritually challenged man, shall we put, dead.) So, if that's falling down the rabbit hole, hand me the carrots, as rabbit holes are, therefore, a very good thing.

As to somebody that wants power not deserving it, that's a prescient declaration that I also find true. This then begs the question, if I also hold that belief, how many feet you, therefore, have in the rabbit hole? Perhaps you need to consult a mirror, if somebody in a rabbit hole seconds your thoughts. You think? I do suspect you need more rabbit hole, as a matter of fact.

Peace.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 02:38 PM
link   
a reply to: Scrutinizing

All you abrahams are crazy.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 02:42 PM
link   

originally posted by: wheresthebody

All you abrahams are crazy.


Flattery will get you nowhere.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 03:36 PM
link   
a reply to: Freeborn

Those in power, those with endless wealth love a country divided.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 03:59 PM
link   
I think the left-right madness could easily be stopped by focusing on something a bit different. Truth or Lie.

This is the only divide we need to have, if we are to have one.

If we gave a three strikes policy on lying and over time removed the greatest offenders on both sides, I really feel the division would go away and cooler heads would have a chance to prevail.

When people believe lies, it encourages the politicians to lie even more because:

a) they know they can do it again and get away with it
b) they believe more and more that we are morons and will swallow anything they say

Both of those are true as long as we allow lies and make excuses for them.

I want to be optimistic, but I live in USA and I see my fellow Americans and talk to them every day when I go out. I see about a 1% chance of people waking up and holding lairs accountable. We can thank our programming and conditioning for that.

Does anyone really think that after years of programming by watching Kardashians and Snookeys lie and cheat their way around and getting popular and rich for it, that we will hold our politicians to a higher standard?

Our political climate was primed for exactly this by years of accepting such behavior on TV, that preceded it.


edit on 29-8-2018 by Kharron because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 04:08 PM
link   

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: Freeborn

Those in power, those with endless wealth love a country divided.



You know what also goes on is most of the issues they're pushing may as well be non-issues, compared to K Street corporate lawyers literally writing legislation, that's your laws, mind you, they hand over to their creatures in Congress, to get passed in their corporate interests, including war, the manufacture of the goods of war, being a corporate interest to perpetuate. They have lobbying offices right there, walk back and forth to visit their Congressional creatures, hand them the laws to pass that are hardly read, the quid quo pro for the likes of "campaign contributions", which is sort of like calling somebody dead "life challenged", that is, what are bribes, pure and simple. People in Congress are allowed to accumulate obscene wealth that would be impossible on their salaries, and nobody says boo. Do you recall the legislation, barring the government from seeking competitive drug pricing? Where do you think that came from? Was that to benefit Grandma, Grandpa and reduce the government debt burden? And the hits just keep coming, every damned day.

Then we have the CIA and Pentagon creating boogeymen to fight, if there were no villains a threat, they'd create one, to keep the juice flowing for their bloated budgets. If there's no war in sight, they'll spark a war. Afghanistan must be the warmonger's dream, perpetual war. And they'll have you pissing yourself over Hillary's server or who Trump slept with, while they're slaughtering your children and robbing the treasury blind, right in front of your noses, but how often have you heard about your government being on the take, in the press? Who's gone to jail? This has been going on for freaking decades, while they have you at each other throats, over a Tweet involving some press bimbo or whatever. Most of you don't know what the real issues even are, and that's a fact, though I've never known what part of "follow the money" has never clicked.

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
edit on 29-8-2018 by Scrutinizing because: Typo.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 04:39 PM
link   
a reply to: Kharron

I love it, and I'm in 100% agreement. Lies should be called out for what they are, and the liar should absolutely be held accountable.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 07:54 PM
link   
a reply to: lakenheath24



Many people leap out of one thread to start another thread of nearly identical content.


And in all these threads it tends to be the same members posting the same opinion and repeating the same old same old time and time again without even attempting to consider the opposing viewpoint simply because one is deemed right thinking and the other leftist.

a reply to: wheresthebody



"Great men do not seek power. They have power thrust upon them."


Indeed.

a reply to: Gothmog


Look at the title of your own thread.
Get it ?


Err, no, but then again I have just got in from the pub.

Are you saying that madness is in fact rampant in the USA at present?



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 08:14 PM
link   
Just spent another 15minutes or so writing another reply to people only for the computer to eat it.

Guess that's what happens when you've just got in from the pub.

I think I'll try again in the morning.




posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 08:24 PM
link   
we are dealing with a pack of new speak-terms such as "active shooter" "active shooter drills", "mass shooting", "lone wolf", "domestic terror", "sources say...", "manifestos", "lockdown" even phrases like "ISIS inspired" and on and on. All of these terms are part of the psyop which is contributing to the chaos, confusion, lies designed to disrupt everyone's lives and instill fear.
we have a generation that doesn't know what order, calmness and peace looks like.
They have no idea what it's like to NOT be at war......



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 08:35 PM
link   
a reply to: madenusa



They have no idea what it's like to NOT be at war......


Snowflake bollocks.

I grew up during The Cold War when the fear of Mutually Assured Destruction was real!

And none of that explains this obsession with outdated and no longer fit for use left-right politics.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 08:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: Freeborn
I'm not one for staring threads but I've got to say my head is getting well and truly battered with all this left-right bollocks that is so prevalent at present.

We have serious issues here in the UK that need to be addressed as a matter of urgency.
Most are exacerbated by the outdated party political politics that promotes the maintenance of the status quo and is traditionally divided along left-right lines.

But you guys in the US are taking it to a completely different level at present.

There seems to be so much division and from the outside looking in it appears to border on hatred at times.
Its as if there is no convergence on anything and one's respective viewpoint dictates how one must view any particular situation.
There is a clear demarcation line between the two that must never be crossed by either side.

Look at how ATS has been inundated in recent months with threads openly promoting these divisions.

I know people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and I've already acknowledged the UK's own problems but if ATS is representative of the USA - which is by no means a given - then I hate to say it but you guys have some serious problems and you urgently need to start recognising this and working together to fix your great nation.


Most people just go about their daily life with out talking about politics. And even when we do talk about politics in real life with our friends and colleagues its usually calm... or at least quickly forgotten. Its online that our worst selves come out because we feel protected by the separation... it's like road rage; even the nicest people get caught up in road rage because they feel insulated behind the wheel separated from their foo.

So no I'd say ATS is not an example of real life in the US any more than survivor is an example of being stranded on a deserted island.
edit on 29-8-2018 by DanDanDat because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 08:47 PM
link   
a reply to: Freeborndivide and conquer left and the right.... the masses remain relatively unaware of the fact that their liberties are being gradually taken away, while this new generation beleaves its normal everyday chaos.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 09:41 PM
link   
a reply to: Freeborn

It certainly is a problem, and it is one not limited to any respective party/ideology. I am a Trump voting libertarian right-winger personally, but am also "conservative" and "liberal" on various issues across the spectrum. I do not believe anyone (including a majority) has the right to enact their will onto others. I believe in using government to enforce contracts, resolve contract disputes, provide for the national defense and primarily to uphold our unalienable rights and restrict the government according to the Bill of Rights.

As far as your assessment, I agree it does feel like "hatred"

Watch the lies told about Trump (not everything is a lie, but a lot is) or listen to a right-wing online talk show for an hour, the tension and sometimes hatred will be palpable. Look at protests where extremists on both sides face off, sometimes with fatal results. There are a good number of Americans concerned at the prospect of political violence like we witnessed in the 70s and even the prospect of a new civil war.

The problem isn't our understanding/agreement of the basics. The vast majority of us agree that things like murder, arson, rape, assault, kidnapping, etc should be unlawful. We agree that private property, contracts and individual rights should be respected. We generally agree that ideas like freedom, liberty and independence are important and that working toward the realization of those ideas is a worthwhile pursuit.

Where we disagree is when large groups of people seek to impose their will on others in regard to a specific topic. A good example is a mass shooting. A mass shooting, like any other violent crime involving loss of life, is a tragic event orchestrated by criminals and terrorists. When such an event occurs, the response from all political ideologies across the board is very predictable. Instead of allowing the law to prosecute the attackers and recognizing that bad people sometimes do bad things, some will seek to limit the rights of others by calling for gun control. This is clearly not the correct solution, as it amounts to "one person soiled themselves now everybody wears a diaper." Clearly the call for gun control is not based in logic, as everyone knows criminals do not follow the law to begin with. Law abiding citizens do, however, and will be very likely unarmed as they obey the law by definition making them less safe while doing nothing to reduce the criminal's access to vast numbers of unregistered firearms.

It isn't just limited to the left or the right, I see it a lot from both sides. Heck, I am guilty of participating in more than a handful of these mudslinging+ incidents. Like I said, I don't think anyone is without some responsibility. I echo your sentiments in that hopefully we get our act together here



edit on 8/29/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2018 @ 02:14 AM
link   
I feel this is the growing pains of free thought.

At no point in history has human beings had so many modes of communication, methods of seeking and imparting information and expressing ourselves. As a result we are exposed to views and arguments we may have otherwise avoided, and segregate ourselves into groups based on ideological division.

But this is a good thing. We are just discovering how painless it all is. Having differing views does not hurt, We have to embrace the division, grow comfortable with it, cultivate it, and bring in a new Age of Enlightenment before we toss away our freedoms because we’ve grown to fear them.



posted on Aug, 30 2018 @ 06:23 AM
link   
a reply to: kelbtalfenek



But it also speaks to the erosion of the middle class, which both sides disagree on how to fix.


Not sure what its like in the US but here in the UK the middle class seem to be doing ok - not as well as the elites, but ok nonetheless.
However, the working class are either taken for granted or casually dismissed.

Both countries suffer from an obsession that our respective political and electoral systems are best suited to our countries needs and we are trapped in party political systems that are no longer fit for purpose.

a reply to: narrator

Amen to that brother.



posted on Aug, 30 2018 @ 06:36 AM
link   
a reply to: Scrutinizing



I'm a Christian. To a Christian, homosexuality is perversion, "gay marriage" perversion. We do not approve of making homosexuality a societal institution.


Not the topic under discussion but quite predictable that you'd squeeze that in somewhere.

I know lots of Christians of various denominations who aren't homophobic and don't see it like you.
Would they be Christians in your eyes?

That in itself is quite revealing as to how locked in your pre-conceived ideas you are.
That's not a criticism but rather an observation.

Many with opposing views are equally blinkered.



We do not subscribe to Hollywood sleaze.


Who does?



Everybody knows liberals are quite socialistic.


Again, stereotyping and pigeon holing people.

Why is being even slightly 'socialistic' viewed as such a bad thing?



People that subscribe to evils are, in fact, as possessed of their evil as the child of God His Spirit, hence all the rabid anger form the left and consistent, anti-Christian agendas. Though I believe that was in what I said, another way, there then, in plainer English.


So anyone who has leftist leaning views is evil and possessed by some evil spirit?



Now, I do have a moral compass....


So Atheists, Agnostics and / or Leftists don't have a moral compass?
How does that work?



and I do have a God,....


As is your inalienable right.

I'm not getting into the rest of the religious stuff, not here.
Another time and place maybe.



As to somebody that wants power not deserving it, that's a prescient declaration that I also find true.


Some common ground!



posted on Aug, 30 2018 @ 06:40 AM
link   
a reply to: madenusa



divide and conquer left and the right.... the masses remain relatively unaware of the fact that their liberties are being gradually taken away,


Which of your 'liberties are being gradually taken away'?
Please be specific.



posted on Aug, 30 2018 @ 10:13 AM
link   

originally posted by: Freeborn

Not the topic under discussion but quite predictable that you'd squeeze that in somewhere.

I know lots of Christians of various denominations who aren't homophobic and don't see it like you.
Would they be Christians in your eyes?

That in itself is quite revealing as to how locked in your pre-conceived ideas you are.
That's not a criticism but rather an observation.

Many with opposing views are equally blinkered.

Me: We do not subscribe to Hollywood sleaze.

You: Who does?


That I squeezed anything in translates, "I don't like seeing that." LGBT is a major, major agenda the left is pushing you'd, apparently, rather not see mentioned, from a critical standpoint. The thread topic is left-right matters. I was explaining part of a real divide, LGBT a major bone of contention the Christian right has major, major issues with. In any event, do not tell me what I may or may not mention, to substantiate a point.

The Christian stance, of scripture, is that homosexuality is perversion. This is not about me, rather about where God stands. And, yes, I am locked into what you're trying to pejoratively spin as pre-conceived notions, as if it's bad to have fixed standards, even locked into some notions that come from God, regardless what I may personally think or wish to believe, adding I've not once found Holy God's stand the wrong one, in the end. But, to me, it's always been what homos do with their private parts gags a maggot, nature telling me doing that poop shute thing or tonguing the same sex takes away my appetite to think about, can't help that, don't have a problem with God's thinking there, find it grotesque, though I'd not tell any sinner to cease and desist anything legal, that's not in my home or face: this is for the Lord to judge, in a judicial sense. Put it this way, you've got to be damned staight I'd be phobic somebody wanting to rear door me, or want to see that, may wonder where that hand has been to shake it, or think, especially, a couple homo men, adopting little boys, belongs on this planet, any more than marriage is actually anything but between a man and woman, the past thousands of years, mind you. And I don't apologize for this, for letting God be true and every man a liar, then. Read Romans 1:18-31. Homosexuality is perversion of fools, thougn I would hasten to say this is true of all sin, but homosexuality is strongly called out as evil, is the same as liars, murderers, etc. All sin is damned. Go ahead and call me a homophobic, then, and let me help you extend your condemnation: I'm also an adultererophobic, a liarophobic, a thiefophobic, a murdererophobic, a covetophobic, a devilophobic, a general scumbagophobic, let's just insert et cetera, guilty as charged! I'm as phobic as a sterile environment is to a landfill, then. Just call me Phobe, for short, and praise the Holy Lord Jesus!

To a true Christian, the word of God isn't negotiable. What you're calling a Christian, that also subscribes to things God has stated are evil, is not the stand of a true Christian, though, especially a baby Christian, can take awhile to come around, that is, we cannot say any Christian, especially one new to the faith, is not a Christian, for not being an instant Bible scholar or failing to "listen" to the Spirit of Christ, in favor of mucking around in the world. God will need to take those persons to the woodshed, read Hebrews 12: they will come around, or will be struck dead, as a matter of fact, if their sin is unto death. This, in fact, was my experience, have known that correction as a child of God. Like a person growing up, there are levels of faith maturity. But somebody that would promote homosexuality, as a long term so-called Christian? No, I cannot believe such a one can be a Christian, in defiance of God. The Christian of the Spirit is led into all truth and in the process of being conformed to the image of Christ, John 14:17 and Romans 8:29, must needs be that Christian grows apart from the devil's system we know as "the world" that damns, that world we cannot be a friend of and a friend of God, at the same time, James 4:4, Luke 4:8. Your fake Christian lives a life notoriously trying to serve two masters, is a fraud, a spiritual adulterer, that the Lord spews out of His mouth, Revelation 3:14-21. God must be worshiped in spirit and in truth, period, John 4:23-24, and God is not mocked or fooled by fakes, Galatians 6:7 and Hebrews 4:12. Only people like you are, apparently, fooled by fakes, to possibly think Christianity has an accord with homosexuality, despite such as Romans 1. These pro-homosexuality Christians you seem to know are simply dead wrong, and it's a granted the world is full of fakes, the true the few, Matthew 7:13-14. It's all in scripture, and God defines what a Christian is, not the world, and the Christian is of every living word that proceeds from God, Matthew 4:4, John 6:63. Anyway, show me somebody on the order of a decade or decades along in their so-called faith, cavorting with the corruption of the world, and I'll show you an unrepentant fraud of a Christian.

Otherwise, I am sorry, but your other points are putting words in my mouth and are a totally bent perception of what I stated, understandable, since you don't really grasp the deep truths of the Christian faith, are not expected to, no offense meant on that score, just things we could not discuss on the same page, to make you see where certain remarks were coming from, bottom line, things that come down to obedience, trusting in the Lord, God's holiness as the true standard. For instance, millions upon tens of millions do subscribe to Hollywood sleaze, around the globe, your most rabid leftists totally, your problem being you don't really recognize what is, in fact, sleaze of the world. Your remarks strikingly display a lack of acknowledging God's standards, asking who does, of a world that is nothing but who doing the world, flesh and the devil, and by popular demand, Holiness just escapes you, period. Obama sucked Hollywood's kneecaps, like most of the rest of you. You likely feed yourself a steady diet of the world's sleaze, everyday, just don't see it for what it is. In other words, there's a world of things you don't see as evil and wrong, worst case may never, if you never repent and come into agreement with God. Holiness is like a beautiful painting you, as a blind man, would argue with me against the beauty of, which is at the heart of your remarks, so clearly. John 3:19-20. You're at odds with the light of God.

The Christian faith is not up for debate, isn't a matter of politics, and, again, yes, there are many pre-conceived notions I fully stand with, if thus saith the Lord, and I don't apologize for that. I'm not here to be liked by you, or debate fixed truths, for that matter. You believe or you don't. That's about all she wrote, as you need to repent and come to faith in the Lord Jesus, to even have your eyes and ears opened to understanding where people like me are coming from, what evil actually is, as a matter of fact. Otherwise, it would all be senseless bickering, a useless discussion, as you reject the whole counsel of God. Again, you believe or you don't. If you don't, you need to repent and believe, to be saved from hell, this the only real issue. Beyond that, there's not much of anything useful I could say to you, anyway, you could even relate to.




top topics



 
22
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join