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What political party you vote for does not make you moral

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posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:21 AM
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So I have been hearing the argument today on ATS and elsewhere that somehow voting for certian political parties makes you more moral, and vice versa.

Or it will be applied to Christianity, saying that because Christ helped the poor, voting for lowering taxes is not Christian.

These arguments are absurd.

Here would be how the argument goes.

I analyze what I think is a problem, lets say homeless people. Now I could donate my personal time and energy to helping the homeless. Or I could say that other people should be taxed and their money be used to help the homeless.

Having that second position does not make me a moral person,. Helping people because it is mandated by law does not make you a moral person.

Now perhaps these arguments of moral superiority would be more founded if the person advocating for others peoples money being taken to help the poor was giving all of their excess money to the homeless, but that is almost never the case.

And this applies to any issue.

Just because you advocate for the government to force everyone to follow a law that you favor, doesnt mean you are personally a moral person.

Nor does advocating for the other side make someone immoral.

For example, I believe free markets have lifted more people out of poverty than any system in the history of the world. And thus I am in favor of lower taxes, which I feel will help the entire economy, including the poor.

In addition, I also feel that often times social programs make people dependent on them, and hurt them in the long run.

Now you may think i am wrong, but that doesnt make me immoral.

I am so tired of people on either side acting like the people on the other side arent just wrong, they are evil or immoral.

Now this same argument applies to the christian argument.

No, advocating against universal heath care does not make me anti christian.

People that make this argument are seeking to avoid the substance of the debate, and instead smear the person.

In other words; its a way of arguing feelings, not facts.

And this can get twisted so bad that people actually (as I have seen argued today on a thread) argue that although they are advocating for the murder of trump supporters, they are more Christian than people voting republican, because they're INTENTIONS are good.

Your political party does not make you any more or less christian or moral; your actions do.




posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:26 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

The people who argue morality comes from party affiliation probably think that Bush and Obama were vastly different.
edit on 29-8-2018 by CriticalStinker because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:29 AM
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I didn't vote for trump because of moral reasons.


Edit, the above could be taken wrong.

I voted for trump.
The decision wasnt because of morals.
edit on 29-8-2018 by Bluntone22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:30 AM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Grambler

The people who argue morality comes from party affiliation probably think that Bush and Obama were vastly different.


Exactly.

Its just a way to silence rational debate, and to virtue signal how great they are, without actually personally doing anything that would make a difference.

These are the people that also think posting a facebook message about helping poor people makes them great people, and so there is no need to actually go out and help the poor.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:31 AM
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It appears one party can show your immorality however. No dancing around..... the Democratic party



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:31 AM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22
I didn't vote for trump because of moral reasons.


Thats fine.

But that doesnt make you a more moral person than someone who did vote for trump.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Bluntone22
I didn't vote for trump because of moral reasons.


Thats fine.

But that doesnt make you a more moral person than someone who did vote for trump.



I should edit my post..

I voted for trump but it had nothing to do with morals.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:34 AM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Bluntone22
I didn't vote for trump because of moral reasons.


Thats fine.

But that doesnt make you a more moral person than someone who did vote for trump.



I should edit my post..

I voted for trump but it had nothing to do with morals.



Oh hahahaha!

Yeah that could be read multiple ways!



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:37 AM
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"What political party you vote for does not make you moral"


No, instead I believe it 'reflects' your moral compass.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: Plotus

No one thinks that they themselves are immoral.
No one does something because they think it's the wrong thing to do.
Everyone believes what they believe for reasons that seem rational to themselves at the time.

This is true for all things human, we're all generally wrong though.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

Who decides what's moral? That's a valid question. All individuals are responsible for deciding their own standard of morality. Are our moral compasses forged by our upbringing, our religion (or lack of religion), or a combination of both? Religions can brainwash people at an early age in believing something that most normal people would consider barbaric. Take for instance Sharia law. I think Sharia law is horrific and evil, but why do people in some parts of the world support it? Do all Liberals support abortion? Do all Conservatives support LGBT rights? I think for the most part, people adhere to their own moral values, regardless of belonging to a club, religion or "political party." If they feel the particular club, religion or political party they belong to, goes against their own moral values, most people leave that group. However, there are people I suppose, who are easily manipulated into believing in ideology that goes against their own beliefs. These people want to be "accepted" and "follow the crowd." I bet there are many radical activists in Antifa who go along with the crowd mentality, but are too weak minded to walk away from something, that deep down, they are truly against.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:45 AM
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originally posted by: Plotus
"What political party you vote for does not make you moral"


No, instead I believe it 'reflects' your moral compass.


I disagree.

For example, take the issue of taxes.

Equally moral people could have totally opposite views on this; one want high taxes to help the needy, the other wants lower taxes because he feels high taxes will hurt the economy and the needy even more.

It doesnt matter what side you think is right, it just shows that one person isnt a worse person than the other for their belief on what will work better.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 11:49 AM
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originally posted by: Plotus
"What political party you vote for does not make you moral"


No, instead I believe it 'reflects' your moral compass.


Well certainly one's moral 'rhetoric' anyways. Which was the well-made point of this OP.


edit on 29-8-2018 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 12:02 PM
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Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 12:02 PM
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The thing about morality is that it's highly subjective. It can contrast vastly from door to door and neither would be right or wrong at the end of the day. So this notion that we're all supposed to think and feel a certain way is complete nonsense. How you live your life and what you experience along the way is what ultimately shapes you.

And with that being said, a LOT of people need to go out and experience more life.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 12:15 PM
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originally posted by: Plotus
It appears one party can show your immorality however. No dancing around..... the Democratic party


Before the election, Trump skepticism, of the man, was definitely in the air, to any thinking person of Christian moral persuasion.Though his campaigning hit on moral points, there is never knowing how much is lip service, the proof of a person their actions. But the point? Look at the alternative, Hillary, a definitive, liberal, very corrupt, Democrat scumbag. Whatever could be said of Trump, Hillary was a dog that just don't hunt, for any Christian that simply believes marriage is only between a man and a woman, that bribes are bribes, or that the Hollywood agenda is evil. You also see proof of the evil, in that all the Satanic scumbags are rabidly anti-Trump. You learn a lot about people, by their friends and enemies. Nope, no dancing around, Satan would say of Democrats, "I'm Satan, and I approve this message."
edit on 29-8-2018 by Scrutinizing because: Typo.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Theft is immoral, so no, someone who's voting for higher taxes is not equally moral as those voting for earners to retain the money they worked to earn.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: Grambler
Morality, per se, may be a subjective concept but who you chose to represent you does speak to character. Yes, your vote can define you.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 12:32 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: Grambler
Morality, per se, may be a subjective concept but who you chose to represent you does speak to character. Yes, your vote can define you.



So vote for bill clinton means you are an immoral rapist supporter?

Vote for hillary means you cheer for people being murdered in the street and the laugh about it?

Or maybe there were perfectly well reasoned factors that led to people voting for these people that had nothing to do with their personal behaviors.



posted on Aug, 29 2018 @ 12:39 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: Grambler
Morality, per se, may be a subjective concept but who you chose to represent you does speak to character. Yes, your vote can define you.

So vote for bill clinton means you are an immoral rapist supporter?
Vote for hillary means you cheer for people being murdered in the street and the laugh about it?
Or maybe there were perfectly well reasoned factors that led to people voting for these people that had nothing to do with their personal behaviors.

Simple question...were all of these allegations front and centre on election day? How much is partisan hyperbole of the 'are you still beating your wife" sort?
So hands up anybody who didn't know that Trump was nekulturny from the git-go.
Like I said above...



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