In the knowledge of the humor of true understanding, there is God realization.

a reply to: Noinden


Oh well. Can't say I didn't try to offer a refreshing point of view. Guess you would push away from the table and walk away grumbling "not enough Gods. You're all too boring."

Good luck and all the best!

Bear in mind with all this that I'm not talking about conceptions, ideas and personal "beliefs" but about something deeper that's accessible in the domain of one's own personal experience or a "grokking" together in koinonia.

It's not everyone's cup of tea.

Just remember not to ever get your Gods confused. There are tricksters who would like to steal your attention.

Personally, I think that a model of authentic servant leadership is better. It has to do with what's worthwhile and worthy, and trustworthy and true.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

You miss the point. As a polytheist, I see all possibilities. To claim just one, is to be parochial and have one eye shut. I also see the possibility of NO Gods. It is called an open mind neighbour.

I also never confuse my Gods. That is the providence of monoists and monotheists. Each god is unique and distinct.

a reply to: Noinden

I also see a hierarchy of kingdoms, founded on universal principals framing a table for all God's children, and it's a BIG table, so don't assume too too much about what you think I assume.

But the whole idea of separate God entities isn't much different from a separate God.

Ironically, your Gods probably honor the same one that I am many of us do who is also the Spirit of the Universe that blows as love through the pair of opposites.

Have you ever considered the concept of a gateway access point?

I'm asking you to try on and consider these things, and I'd be open to hearing about your pantheon of Gods. Maybe we have something in common you never know..

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

It is a lot different neighbour. Hard polytheism (which I follow) says that every god is unique and separate, and non supreme. My Gods do not bow down to any other diety.

So I am asking you to consider that perchance there is no supreme being, just like there are multiple roads in life, not all lead the same way.

a reply to: Noinden

How do you know they're not fallen angels just lying to you.

a reply to: Deetermined

I don't. How do you know they are not Gods? It is a matter of faith. Unverifiable Personal Gnosis.

The principle of non-possessiveness is foremost. We are not free when we are attached to life or the things in it. To know spirit is to die to life and awaken to the eternal. To live within the contradiction and hold both at once is the balance we seek. When done properly there is no life and death, only eternal consciousness/existence.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Deetermined

I don't. How do you know they are not Gods? It is a matter of faith. Unverifiable Personal Gnosis.

Sorry, I mistook you for someone who might have faith in something, but I see that I was wrong. Your posts went from many gods to no gods. You obviously have chosen not to choose. Have a good day anyway.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

God’s love and wrath are never more visible than at the cross.[8] God’s redemptive purposes for his creation will continue through history until consummation when heaven and earth come together as a new creation. Both Testaments offer an enthralling vision of the new creation, one to which we may look forward with glorious hope. A superficial look may make the Old Testament God out to be a moral monster or a merciless judge who exhibits disturbing behavior. However, a closer study of his word establishes his character as a holy, loving, faithful, suffering, merciful, and just God, one who yearns for an intimate reconciled relationship with us.

As with God's character being ever unchanging, why should we strive to undo what he has created as us humans? I think we are free to enter into self-realization perhaps comparing ourselves (our egos, our emotions, our fears) with God's wrath and love (being the same thing). Fire can burn but fire can also give warmth and comfort.

a reply to: InTheLight

By talking about undoing the ego-self, I'm talking about a kind of grasping, self-serving personality that mistakes itself as the self. The Christian model of death and resurrection applies to this self, which must be willing to die in order to be reborn of/by/in the Spirit as our true self and true self-nature as children of a loving God ie: reborn from above in Spirit.

Who we presume and take ourselves to be isn't who we really are.

Many have too much infested in it to see this, so they aren't able to access the domain of limitless love, joy, humor. They have to put their own conceptions and spin on it to remain comfortable within themselves, but it's all a kind of farce to shield themselves from the truth, and worst of all, at bottom, it's inauthentic and a whole lot of posturing.

In many cases, it involves a certain bias and rebellion against any and all "religious" conceptions seeking another way in.

This is as much the fault of the Christian church as it is the individual seekers.

Doesn't get us any closer to that messianic vision and hope for redemption and a new creation, sadly.

invested, I might to type, but it is a type of infestation and invasion of the self by the self in an effort to protect itself from the inevitable dilemma but which only keeps the angst & the suffering alive..

..but what happens when we become more fearlessly present to that whole notion that the activity or the action of the personality or the ego-self with all of it's hidden agendas & misconceptions & assumptions & reality tunnels, was both clueless and absurd... as a coping mechanism to try to put on a brave face that pretends to know who and what it is (they are) and what and why it's been functioning the way it's been functioning all along while continually projecting the past into the future... this is a very constraining and limiting conception of the human being, including one's own self!

Absurd, ridiculous, nonsense!

This doesn't mean that we can project any degree of certainly about much of anything, nor does it allow us to comprehend the Godhead of which we're a part, or even an infinite number of Gods, it just means that we're no longer limited or constrained by our prior conceptions and often very low estimations of ourself and our fellow man and woman.

So we squabble and fight and argue over it, to maybe try to reclaim the highground, but that too is absurd and ridiculous, and even entertaining from the POV of the one who's released from the suffering of the bad strategy and tragedy of a life not fully lived.

..what happens when we courageously and fearless get present to that, what's left on the other side?

Is that not humor and a funny joke and whole series of them with lots of comedic material to be had, while also liberating the person to play their role, authentically, with the awareness that it's just a role they play and a certain strong suit they've developed along the way to protect themselves and to try to succeed in the world relative to others, while also making accessible and available a whole domain of new possibility in terms of our human experience in who and what we REALLY are and are becoming in the true knowledge which can only exist within the context of our experience? It's both a field of awareness and a field of play on really green grass, or new pasture, while also free to freely come and go.

This is the gateway access point and wise is the one who hears and recognizes the voice of the good shepherd and his follower. We too call people to new pasture, and to cross the bridge, but we can only do that if we also have the courage to walk into it or over the troubled waters as the case may be, ourselves.

Best regards, (it's nice!)

Ankh

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

God is also a jealous God, a wrathful God and a deceitful God and we are told we are made in it's image. To deny this is to maintain a make-believe existence to fulfill others' perceptions of redemption and their reality. Once again, when we entangle ourselves with others' paths we lose our own.

a reply to: InTheLight


I think you're missing the context and the frame of reference that I'm pointing to whereby we all share the same ground of being and becoming. There's no need to pull out one's axe and sharpen the bias to create an unnecessary seperation.

As to the Bliblical frame, there are deeper and richer interpretations, which don't evoke the same kind of animosity.

And since no man or woman is an island unto themselves, we are still left with the same kind of dillemma and predicament.

Our story describes our path and the one we are charting, but I think what we're looking into and examining here are first causes in the activity that we are engaging in from moment to moment with all it's accumlated prejudice, bias, and misconceptions including, perhaps, the true meaning and intent of the Bliblical frame through which Jesus entered the scene to perform a great work for the sake and cause of love and Liberty to complete the law of life and love and set the story straight re: old testament "eye for an eye" etc, etc.

We don't need to dwell on it, however, or our differences, to explore the ground and territory that we all share in the joy of koinonia or an intimate, participatory fellowship.

And if what i think is true is true, then Jesus heads that table out of necessity anyway whether we like it or not.

I just think it's best if people don't bring their axes to the table.

I think perhaps we should take a look at what provokes offense, from either direction, to put that aside, but many people cling tightly to their axe, their fears, their preconceptions, and their hatred.

I suppose if the table frame is strong enough that axes won't work to break it apart..?

Trying to understand the comedic aspect of divinity, can be a lot like looking at a cup of water. Whether the glass is half full or half empty is up to the viewer all the while the reality is, there is still water in the said cup... then the Devil shows up an asks this question..."Are to going to drink it or can I have it, I'm very thirsty for Hell is barren an dry the waters of life an spirits."

Then God says " Dam me, Jinn, I already gave you some, your cute off!"

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

I did not miss any context, what I am bringing to the table (without an axe) is clarity and transparency, but, of course, you have the choice to deny and ignore and cling tight to your comfort. I, however, will explore and interpret that which is truth within the written word as well as experience and accept it and move forward with the realization of what we all are made of and what we can strive to correct and perhaps grow beyond to a place of peace and love. We are not there and as such I can not find any humor within divinity or God's grand plan.

www.academia.edu...

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

I never know how to reply to your posts except to say that you are a brilliant person.

I will assume that some up to all is Christ light refracted.

Light is Light however and we like it.

a reply to: yughii

Why thank you so much!

Then again >I< can't take any real credit!

I think that when we get right down to it, that we reside within a great predicament gird round on all sides by Truth and Light.

I think that first things first, instead of trying to pretend that we know or understand our true nature & that of the world around us, including the entire cosmological unity within which we are immersed, which is really quite absurd & the height of arrogance & presumptuousness - we get present to the quandry.

Put another way, if you could draw a circle of all potential knowledge & understanding, as a felt experience (there is no other real knowledge, just attributes, labels, categories, and descriptions combined with an opinion that it describes the actual territory or reality), there's this super thin slice, nothing more than a line really, containing everything we actually know for sure. If one were to then include everything that you know you do not know, say quantum physics, the line would thicken - while the entire sphere or field of potential knowledge fills the rest of the whole of the circle.

Ignorance.

They say ignorance is bliss, but the way that's usually interpreted is as an insult. (is that not funny?)

We can't be open minded until we get past the fear of unknowing, or even of going crazy or temporarily insane as the ego-mind tries to grasp it and get a hold of it and call that the light at the very heart of everything.

My short story

As for me, I was once touched by Grace while in the midst of my personal quandry & predicament where I was an addicted person, filled with anxiety, twisting in ego, the desire to be perceived in a certain way, to prove something to the world, but inwardly I was lost & failing desperately. This was back in 1991 or 92 I guess it was.

I was a very bright kid in public school thought to be a little gifted, top of my class but not off the charts. So I still had a remnant of the ability to learn & comprehend.. (not bragging)

So there I was in a tiny condo in downtown Toronto in my late 20's, beside myself, twisting, yearning inside. All my pursuits to know stuff were really all in vain.

Anyway, I decided to read and to really "grok" a book I'd picked up off my mother's shelf (she was an ordained Minister & Psychotherapist) called "The Road Less Traveled; A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values and Spiritual Growth" by M. Scott Peck, MD, a smash hit best seller from the late 70's that was actually in the Guinness Book of World Records as the best selling book of all time next only to the Bible. I ate that book up, and when I got to the last chapter on Grace, by which point the author himself had become a converted Christian in the process of writing the book, I became.. undone. I wept, and wept, and I was touched, and it would seem, healed by the loving hand of God. It was a psychic transformation, at all levels.

But my ego wanted a piece of it, this Grace, and so I cracked up & fell apart yet again! LOL I've experienced this, more often than not around Christmas time, about 5 times in my life since then. But it's all good now!

And of course the net of God's Grace was always there to catch me and protect me. If not, I'd be a total loon & schitzo now, instead of a light-hearted, happy man who's never lonely.

Where am I going with this..?

Some among us are called and some are chosen, to find this light, this boon to humanity and then somehow convey it to our fellow man. But it can't exclude the Teacher who is a Spirit & a who, not a thing, not just a light.

Otherwise, we would be at grave risk of taking our personal selves too seriously, and, where the is no amount of Christ that's capable of ruining a personality!

So we're in another predicament (falling in love with Christ, or in love with love), & even another level of temptation of the ego, but because of experience (ego pop), it learns! It know to let go and let God & be reintegrated, rather than resist, buck the Spirit like a wild horse & try to lay claim to some sort of special, personal take on things, or a personal power which seeks to usurp & exclude God while placing the self in the seat of the throne of power. Then we're in even worse trouble, if such a thing were possible, where the split (there's always a choice) leads either to damnation or salvation. And even still the net is there to catch our fall when what goes up, must come down again! or where it could be said that pride, in this case, spiritual pride, always goes before the fall. Ha HA!

God is very very funny! This was one of the main themes that came up for me. As funny and filled with a sense of irony, as loving, protecting, caring for, and raising up, like a child.

When we run from the fundamental predicament we are already in whether we like it or not often blindly into a knot of paradox, we are running away from God. It's as simple as that.

But when we fling ourselves into His hands & into his care & protection ("into thy hands I commit my spirit") enough times, eventually we find that it's much more reasonable to just rest & take comfort there (instead of going wild or selfsure), even if it's in the space, the domain & the field of a great mystery that we cannot really fathom, certainly not intellectually (how absurd!) - the Spirit is there to teach us, & to comfort us, and even to co-mingle with our Spirit in partnership WITH God, as it was intended and as we were created and created to function as co-creators (see Wheeler Experiment of delayed choice).

Prior to judgement, the true nature of our consciousness is a non-localized phenomenon.

Therefore, in the space of absolute forgiveness, we are truly free to fly in the spacious firmament of love & freedom. We in the world but not OF the world.

When we understand at last, that even in spite of ourselves & our own character defects that we are beloved children of a loving God who is like a parent and a teacher in the Spirit, even death itself loses its sting!

Oh to laugh with God!

To have a friend that never leaves us or forsakes us.

It's an absolute marvel, as we are surrounded by bejeweled skies, even without knowing precisely what, is really going on or who and what we really are as people playing roles.

Blessed are you who grok and laugh at your prior absurdity in the face of the truth of which there should never have been fear except perhaps from the devil within at who's expense our better nature gets the last laugh, if we so dare to be utterly reasonable.

Or... one can just pay no heed and take life and everything for granted, until you die. That's also an option!

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

You miss the point. As a polytheist, I see all possibilities. To claim just one, is to be parochial and have one eye shut.

the One True God encompasses all possibilities. All are subject. This God is the only one that was never born from something else, because this God always was and always will be. All other gods and creatures were created from this Source.

Plato did a pretty elaborate logical analysis of this concept in the Timaeus. Essentially, since something cannot come from nothing, and something exists, then something must have always existed - Plato presumes this always-existent-one to be God. i.e. the Alpha-Omega.

a reply to: cooperton

NO, a single deity does not encompass "all the possibilities". In the very least it dismisses that there may not be a one true god. It can be none, or many. Thus no.