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SCI/TECH: Ice Man Continues To Yield Secrets, And Curse

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posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 07:11 PM
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"Oetzi', the alpine iceman found years ago, gives up more secrets everytime he is studied. Its already been discovered that he was probably murdered, and he even has the blood of four other individuals on him at the time of discovery. Its beleived that he was a shaman, as medicinal mushrooms were found on his person. Additionally, his body had anomolous levels of arsenic, beleived to be contamination from bronze-smelting, such as the sort that produced his bronze-axe.

 



story.news.yahoo.com

Data from tooth enamel, soil and water samples has already shown that Oetzi probably grew up in the Pustertal region south of the Alps and left his home valley when he was 20 to 30 years old.


Archeologists believe he may have been a shaman. He used medicinal mushrooms, and his tattoos -- a series of short, dark, parallel lines -- had been placed to treat his arthritis as an early form of acupuncture.


But even the best scientists have been unable to explain the exact circumstances of his death.


In 2001, with the help of digital X-ray images, doctors detected an arrowhead in the iceman's shoulder blade.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


This fellow just won't quit. As if the orignal discovery wasn't exciting enough; alpiners thought he was a modern person caught in an avalanche and tried to rescue him; now even more stunning results and information, with more to follow.

I find it very interesting that he has something very unique. A combination of tattooing and acupuncture, with tattoos at possibly important points on the body, some areas used in modern acupuncture. I find it amazing that something so bizzare, and obviously so ritualized and that certainly didn't occur in a vaccuum, has left no other traces in archeology and culture. It was just, missing, nothing even hinted at the practice. It truly shows that its a bizzare world out there.

I am somewhat sceptical of attemps, as the article notes, to 'identify his ethnicity' beyond european. I don't think that past ethnicities, especially stone age types of all things, are particularly informative. I suspect that austrian, swiss and italian authorities are going to make far too much out of what 'nationality' the iceman is, which is absurd, because this is a man that was possibly around before the european langauges had even entered Europe. If anything he might have more to do with the basque between Spain and France than anyone else. But such things are meaningless and unimporant anyway.

I also think its pretty fantastic that he has blood from other people on him, and that he may have been a shaman or 'big man' (perhaps evidenced by the possibility of him being a bronze caster). This extraordinarily ancient find might also be a victim of, politics.

Related News Links:
www.fasebj.org
www.talkorigins.org
www.nature.com
www.eag.aa.schule-bw.de

[edit on 22-2-2005 by Nygdan]

[edit on 22-2-2005 by Spectre]




posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 07:49 PM
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It's wierd that you posted this tonight - Discovery had a program on Otzi last night that proposed a new theory on his death. A little far-fetched maybe but it did cover all known aspects.


As he emerged from the ice, the mummy was still wearing goatskin leggings and a grass cape, while a copper-headed axe, a quiver full of arrows and a medicine kit with herbal remedies were lying nearby.

"Only a leader would have owned a copper axe. Copper was very precious and a symbol of power at that time," Leitner said.

According to his reconstruction, the Iceman was assaulted not far from the Similaun Glacier where his mummified body was found.

The assailants kept Ötzi at a distance because they were afraid of him, Leitner said. One attacker hit him with an arrow in the back, near his left shoulder, others threw more arrows at him, while another one got closer and hit Ötzi's right hand with a knife.

"Then the attackers removed the arrow from Ötzi's shoulder and left him there. As they came back to the village, the murderers said that the old man got lost in the mountains. For this reason, they did not steal his precious axe. It had to look like an accident, not a murder," Leitner said.

*snip*

The researcher believes Ötzi did manage to flee up the mountain until he collapsed and was entombed in the Similaun Glacier's ice.

Probably caught in a storm at 10,000 feet, the right hand cut to the tendons and the left arm possibly bent in the effort to stop the blood, Ötzi spent at least three days in excruciating pain before he died, according to Egarter, who carried out histological and biochemical analysis on the deep knife wound.

"The presence of haemosiderin containing macrophages in skin wounds would indicate that the injury happened between three to eight days before Ötzi's death. Most likely, he managed to escape in the mountains and there he died after a few days because of blood loss, hunger, cold and weakness," Egarter told Discovery News. Discovery


I've always wanted to know more about Otzi - who he was, why he was there and how he died.

B.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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Good find Nygdan. Thanks for posting this.

That tattoo - acupuncture connection is very interesting. Thanks for pointing it out. ...Does make one wonder.


.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 08:47 PM
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Your headling mentions a curse? Can you expand on this?

Curious.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 09:07 PM
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Yes, I saw the bit about the curse too, and thought 'good greif'.
Anyway, here is the relevant section of the article

Science has also been unable to explain a series of sinister accidents since the iceman was discovered.

Forensic medic Rainer Henn, one of the first to touch the mummy, died in a car crash on his way to a lecture about Oetzi. A mountain guide who helped with the find plunged to his death, and a journalist who filmed the excavation died from cancer.

Last October, Helmut Simon fell to his death in the Alps after a sudden onset of bad weather near the spot where he had discovered Oetzi.

Walter Leitner was close to the scene the night Simon died.

At the time, he was explaining his iceman theory to a team of U.S. American journalists when they too were suddenly engulfed by the storm and had to be rescued by helicopter.

"At that moment I thought of my survival rather than the curse; of my family; my daughter's birthday the next day, and how I would maybe not be there," Leitner said.

"The next day, when I arrived at the institute, people were saying, 'Have you heard, Helmut Simon went missing in the mountains', and that's when I started feeling a bit queasy."


then it gets weirder


The archeologist explained Simon had been profoundly moved by his discovery, seeing it as a religious signal to convert to Christianity.

"But why should the mummy punish him for that?" Leitner added. "It doesn't make sense."


On the tatoos, I'd be interested if anyone more familiar with these things has heard of something similiar. Its so odd yet it seems like the sort of thing people would continue to do.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
On the tatoos, I'd be interested if anyone more familiar with these things has heard of something similiar. Its so odd yet it seems like the sort of thing people would continue to do.


Umm, we do. We tattoo medicinally, using various materials, using traditional meridian patterns at specific points. Some are clan or tribal identifyers, but others are purely medicinal tattoos.

The early Celtic peoples did the same thing. In Britain, you had the Picts. Which reminds me, we tend to speak in past tense: "The Indians used porcupine quills to tattoo...". I want to start a No Past Tense Project. We still do, some of us, everything we ever did. That's what we call 'living your culture'.

Most 'moderns' do it for looks. Some of us still Remember 'Why Chakotay Has The Marks Of Falcon On His Face'.

My wife and I are discussing the utility of tattoos in a survival situation. Our conclusions:

1) Visual Mnemonics: maps, tribal legends, and beliefs;
2) Pain relief (acupuncture);
3) Visual Identification;
4) Vaccination;

Note in the Native link that traditional dyes are not carbon-based. They are iron oxides. Machine Readable, like Memorex. Inventory control, if Richard Grass is correct and we are the decendants of the servants of long-departed Sky Gods...



[edit on 23-2-2005 by Chakotay]



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 12:38 AM
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When Otzi was first found I read a few early articles on the internet, and I think in our local paper, that as soon as authorities realised what was in the ice, a helicopter came over with some scientists, and removed the gonads off the body, before flying away.

Since then I havn't seen any more information on that event, yet one time I noticed that the body was indeed missing its gonads.

Anyone else know what happened to them and why they may have been removed??



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 02:02 AM
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Perhaps an attempt to prevent cloning? The skin and muscle looks fairly raveged and the gonands might have a higher chance of retaining clonable DNA.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by Netchicken
Since then I havn't seen any more information on that event, yet one time I noticed that the body was indeed missing its gonads.



This article says his bits and pieces are still in place:


Before looking at Spindler's attitude to this, it is necessary to make two points. Firstly, the Iceman's genital region is as intact as any man's private parts would be after being buried under tons of ice for five millenia or more. He is as complete in the penile department as can be expected in the circumstances; his testicles, although very badly crushed, are there; and there is no genital damage that cannot be attributed either to long-term glaciation, or to the initial, indelicate recovery of the body. Secondly, his bow, despite showing signs of hasty manufacture, seems to have been intended to be fully functional.


That article is a pretty interesting read for the skeptics out there.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 02:59 AM
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The problem is not one of a mystery man seemingly advanced in medicine etc. But instead we should be facing up to the fact that archeologists are yet again showing an arrogant attitude to the past. "They" know what it was like, how we lived etc. They have got our past very badly wrong and just can't bring themselves to admit it. There are many many artifacts around the world which just don't fit the current established theory about the past so they are ignored.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by malcr
The problem is not one of a mystery man seemingly advanced in medicine etc. But instead we should be facing up to the fact that archeologists are yet again showing an arrogant attitude to the past. "They" know what it was like, how we lived etc. They have got our past very badly wrong and just can't bring themselves to admit it. There are many many artifacts around the world which just don't fit the current established theory about the past so they are ignored.


What is your theory about the past, and the history of human's for the last 50,000 years? I'm not trying to be difficult or question your thoughts but what you mentioned got me curious. I can tell you though, that because of what you said I will research tonight and see what I can find out about "incorrect history". I've thought of this before in the past, and have contemplated, what was it like 1,000 years ago, what kind of medicines did they use?, was there magic? who knows. Then there's that whole theory on what happened to Atlantis, maybe they discovered atomic energy and blew them self’s off the earth? Who knows.
I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR what some of you think about out past history. What types of things are you referring to, that "just don't fit the current established theory about the past". again not questioning you, just very curious about your opinion as well as everybody else.
Come on guys, i really don’t feel like working today, so give me some stuff to read.

Thanks



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by Chakotay
Umm, we do.

I was thinking more in lines of the acupunture-tatoo connection specifically, but this is interesting.


using traditional meridian patterns at specific points

This is intersting. Can you explain it more?


malcr
The problem is not one of a mystery man seemingly advanced in medicine etc.

What advanced medicine? he had traditional shamanistic items like mushrooms and acupuncture related tatoos. Thats hardly 'advanced medecine'.

archeologists are yet again showing an arrogant attitude to the past

Without those 'arrogant archaeologists' we wouldn't know anything about this guy, or the society and culture that he came from.

There are many many artifacts around the world which just don't fit the current established theory about the past so they are ignored.

How does the ice man not fit the 'current established theory'?



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