U.S., Mexico reach NAFTA deal, turn up pressure on Canada

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It isn't greed when US citizens are currently hurting and need better trade arrangements.

Agree , our politicians sold out the American people with bad agreements with Nafta and globalism.

However, I hope the details of the new agreements is better than just making Corporations pay the mexican work force 16 bucks an hour minimum wage. If that is the big key factor of the new agreement than sadly this is likely just a PR stunt and not much of a game changer IMO.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Why does American dairy need to be in Canadian markets so badly then? Not our fault you dont buy dairy products. Or your farmers over produce. But in all honesty, it's not the farmers it's the company's that label and distribute the dairy, they just want to push their products even further for corporate gains.

a reply to: strongfp

you seem to be worried about how fair things are to you, rather than what's best for everyone. I can see how you would think like that, but when it's a global issue, you have to think of more than just you. If Trudeau doesn't negotiate for what he wants, he likely won't get what he wants. That's basic business.

Trump is trying to get the best deal he can for the US, it's what his base wants. If that sounds like something you might like, then tears aren't likely to solve any issues. Sometimes you have to get involved if you want the results to favor your ways of thinking.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Why does American dairy need to be in Canadian markets so badly then? Not our fault you dont buy dairy products. Or your farmers over produce. But in all honesty, it's not the farmers it's the company's that label and distribute the dairy, they just want to push their products even further for corporate gains.

If you were a dairy farmer in the US, would you:
A. be all about more sales, and more profits

or

B. concern yourself with how you selling more product will hurt the competition?

One answer is along the lines of good business, the other, won't get you anything but unemployed.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It isn't greed when US citizens are currently hurting and need better trade arrangements.

Agree , our politicians sold out the American people with bad agreements with Nafta and globalism.

However, I hope the details of the new agreements is better than just making Corporations pay the mexican work force 16 bucks an hour minimum wage. If that is the big key factor of the new agreement than sadly this is likely just a PR stunt and not much of a game changer IMO.

Correct...the details are what matters. Im all about raising the standard of living in Mexico. It'll help the illegal immigration problem, and shut people in the US up.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Why does American dairy need to be in Canadian markets so badly then? Not our fault you dont buy dairy products. Or your farmers over produce. But in all honesty, it's not the farmers it's the company's that label and distribute the dairy, they just want to push their products even further for corporate gains.

We buy quite a bit of dairy in the US. That said...lactose intolerance is much more common amongst non-europeans like the latino's (my wife and both kids are lactose intolerant with painful results). So there are reasons we don't drink as much milk as more eurocentric populations....and they aren't our fault either.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I'm Latino. Many of us have European blood....(Spain). I'm not lactose intolerant either. *Shrugs*

a reply to: network dude

Just pointing how greedy and petty it is. That's all, why should we care about your farmers when they over produce and signed into contracts with companys like Nestle?
Trump dragged Canada into a trade war. So don't play the whole hate on Trudeau bandwagon thing here, hes doing what he's doing because it will hurt our dairy farmers. Like I said things were 0refectly fine until Trunp started this mess. All for what? Greed!

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: network dude

Just pointing how greedy and petty it is. That's all, why should we care about your farmers when they over produce and signed into contracts with companys like Nestle?
Trump dragged Canada into a trade war. So don't play the whole hate on Trudeau bandwagon thing here, hes doing what he's doing because it will hurt our dairy farmers. Like I said things were 0refectly fine until Trunp started this mess. All for what? Greed!

We will have to agree to disagree as the way I see it Americans should not be subsidizing another countries "anything" by allowing unfair trade practices. A country slaps a 20 percent tariff on American products but if America returns the favor America is greedy ?

The population of a country pays for the tariff through higher prices so it actually hurts everyone.. Thus it is better to say let the market dictate the prices. Those who can compete will prosper while those who can not will perish .

Some countries with deep pockets will subsidize an industry (which is wrong IMO) for years so they can capture an entire world market....China comes to mind with their past dumping policies.

IMO everything will shake out and settle down given time and will hopefully be fair for all concerned.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It isn't greed when US citizens are currently hurting and need better trade arrangements.

Agree , our politicians sold out the American people with bad agreements with Nafta and globalism.

However, I hope the details of the new agreements is better than just making Corporations pay the mexican work force 16 bucks an hour minimum wage. If that is the big key factor of the new agreement than sadly this is likely just a PR stunt and not much of a game changer IMO.

Strongly disagree, actually.

This isn't (just) about helping the Mexican worker or economy.

Consider this WSJ report from 2016:

Ford is scheduled to open a new $1.6 billion small-car assembly factory in San Luis Potosí in 2018 and hire 2,800 workers. People familiar with the matter say Ford will produce its Focus there, which is currently built in Michigan.

 

A contract reviewed by The Wall Street Journal puts factory wages at the facility at about $1.15 to $2.30 per hour, on par with what other auto-assembly plants currently pay in the region. The move to Mexico will yield cost savings of about $1,300 per vehicle, or about $300 million a year, according to manufacturing experts familiar with the Detroit car maker’s finances.

Raising autoworkers wages in Mexican plants helps American plants stay open or expand. The reason they move production is for dirt cheap labour.


Even if this was the sole provision (there has been zero indication or reporting that this is true), it'd still be a boon to American manufacturing.

Another side effect is every Mexican workers making 4-8 times what they were before is another worker who has no need/desire to cross the border and send money home.

a reply to: RadioRobert

Raising autoworkers wages in Mexican plants helps American plants stay open or expand. The reason they move production is for dirt cheap labour.

First I thought the same as you, then I started to think more about it and from what little has been released in details I don't see the incentives yet for Americans company to bring back those jobs and plants.

I agree its about cheap labor , but its also about no workers rights , no benefits, no unions and no overtime pay among other things.

As I wrote in my previous post I don't think raising the wages to 16 Bucks for Mexicans working on American products will be enough or will it make a significant impact overall.


In essence:

1. The manufacturing plants are already in Mexico

2. The Mexican workforce is already experienced and knowledgeable on the manufacturing process.

3. The American work force needs to be educated and brought up to speed with the Mexican work force.

4. The American work force will likely require more than $16 bucks an hour and according to some stats Americans get paid $58 bucks on average to do the same as their Mexican counterparts.

5. The American work force has to comply with American rules and regulations such as workers comp,benefits, unions, and workers rights such as 40 hr work weeks and overtime, etc....


So despite raising the wages from pennies an hour to $16 an hour its still not enough of incentives to motivate Americans Corporations to move their manufacturing back to the US.

I just don't see why would US car manufactures like ford would want to spend hundreds of millions to move factories back to America to only then pay higher wages ,benefits, unions, workers rights in America?

a reply to: 727Sky

What favor is the US going to give in return?
Other than reversing back to before the trade war began, only the US gets a free ride and Canada has to "let the market settle".

We have American dairy brands here, those brands just want to flood more of their product into our market. They just want massive profits and kill off Canadian brands and weed out Canadian farmers. That's why we have big tariffs, it's not to screw over the states, it's to stop the states from barging in.

I find it funny how so many people who support trump have this anti globalist mind set yet are calling for free trade and open boarders for trade. How about make America first, stop worrying about controlling other nations economics. If you want to do a deal dont let the federal government do the dirty work of capitalism, because that's what happening. Talk about big government little people. Holding the hands and bailing out failures.

originally posted by: interupt42

In essence:

1. The manufacturing plants are already in Mexico

2. The Mexican workforce is already experienced and knowledgeable on the manufacturing process.

3. The American work force needs to be educated and brought up to speed with the Mexican work force.

4. The American work force will likely require more than $16 bucks an hour and according to some stats Americans get paid $58 bucks on average to do the same as their Mexican counterparts.

5. The American work force has to comply with American rules and regulations such as workers comp,benefits, unions, and workers rights such as 40 hr work weeks and overtime, etc....


So despite raising the wages from pennies an hour to $16 an hour its still not enough of incentives to motivate Americans Corporations to move their manufacturing back to the US.

I just don't see why would US car manufactures like ford would want to spend hundreds of millions to move factories back to America to only then pay higher wages ,benefits, unions, workers rights in America?

1) This isn't about repatriating the jobs that left. In the absence of tariffs those plants aren't likely to go anywhere. That's sunk costs. This is about helping to preserve the manufacturing base and encourage domestic investment in new manufacturing.

2&3) The US has plenty of qualified workers. Most of the jobs that have left are unskilled labour positions.

4) US workers will always make substantially more. Moving to Mexico would save about 90% on labour costs. This will help reduce this to about 40%.



The Mexican workforce for manufacturing has a much, much higher turnover rate. There are still environmental laws modelled after those in the US. You have to pay for higher international shipping rates (both imported components and exported products) and deal with customs which affects ship times by about two weeks in both directions. The corporate tax rate is 30% in Mexico instead of 21% in the US, and if you think our tax code is convoluted, good luck. Corruption is higher in Mexico than the US or Europe with some 43% of business admitting to making payments to facilitate business at the local, state, or federal level. Enforcing contracts is more difficult than under the US legal code. The threat of tariffs potentially making your billion dollar plant useless overnight. Etc, etc.

There are lots of reasons for a company with a plant in the US to stay there over moving to Mexico. Or we would have zero manufacturing. Raising the wage and closing that gap helps retain the plants we have and encourages domestic expansion of our manufacturing base.

a reply to: carewemust

Awesome idea! And if American companies that take their business over boarders to take advantage of cheap labor and don't pay them at least American "minimum wage". Said companies should be fed taxed for the difference, based on that countries worker and lowest paid employee. But x total number of workers.
It wouldn't be that hard to figure out the math. Plus it would give the IRS something to do other than enforcing "color of law" fraud on US. Private citizens that receive payment for services and not income.

a reply to: carewemust

You obviously aren't very educated to how other countrys work,they will pay whatever they deem necessary,just like the major appliances,furniture,they assemble them there,this has been going on for years,Mexico is a socialist state,you don't dictate wages,kids these days very narrow minded

originally posted by: Dembow
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I'm Latino. Many of us have European blood....(Spain). I'm not lactose intolerant either. *Shrugs*

Well of course.

But your individual story aside, statistics indicate lactose intolerance is typical among latin folks.

originally posted by: Dembow
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I'm Latino. Many of us have European blood....(Spain). I'm not lactose intolerant either. *Shrugs*

Well of course.

But your individual story aside, statistics indicate lactose intolerance is typical among latin folks.

a reply to: strongfp

Trade negotiations are about America first.

Its up to you to negotiate the deal you want. Not cry about greed when your leaders fail.

Blame Trudeau. He postured when he lacked strength. Yall all cheered him on.....is going to actually wotk out now that the anti Trump party is winding down and the bills are coming due?

Trudeaus job is to address these things to the benefit of his people. Id f i were you, before worrying about the US....id focus on Canada first by asking your leader to quit with petty biclering and actually come to the table

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Dembow
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I'm Latino. Many of us have European blood....(Spain). I'm not lactose intolerant either. *Shrugs*

Well of course.

But your individual story aside, statistics indicate lactose intolerance is typical among latin folks.

As it is with many Asians...
Canada Joins in Talks to Replace NAFTA after US, Mexico Reach Deal

WASHINGTON—Canada’s top trade negotiator joined her Mexican and U.S. counterparts in Washington on Aug. 28 in a bid for Ottawa be part of a revamped North American trade pact, as U.S. officials expressed optimism a deal could be reached this week.

But Canada will be under pressure to accept new terms on auto trade and dispute settlement rules after the United States and Mexico agreed on Aug. 27 to overhaul the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

www.theepochtimes.com...
Trudeau Has NAFTA Wiggle Room but Will Resist on One Big Issue

The rush is on for Canada to get a NAFTA deal, though a key stumbling block remains.

As analysts began parsing summaries of a partial U.S.-Mexico deal announced Aug. 27, most details didn’t jump out as deal-breakers for the other partner in the 24-year-old continental trade pact. The problems instead lie in a series of NAFTA fights always seen as squarely between Canada and the U.S., chief among them the pact’s dispute resolution systems.

“It seems like a set of things that are very easy for Canada to come in on,” Brett House, deputy chief economist at Bank of Nova Scotia, said in an interview about what the U.S. and Mexico agreed to. “We’re really just back to where we always were.”

Markets appear unconcerned, with Canadian auto-parts makers Linamar Corp. and Magna International Inc. extending gains on Aug. 28—signaling a bet Canada will make the cut on a final deal and that the Mexico problems were the biggest ones that needed fixing. “I am not concerned right now for Canada’s position,” Bruce Heyman, a U.S. ambassador to Canada under Barack Obama, told BNN Bloomberg television.

But the clock is ticking on the North American Free Trade Agreement. Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland arrived in Washington for talks Aug. 28, and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer wants to notify Congress of a deal by Aug. 31. It would be a lot easier to do so with Canada since U.S. lawmakers might fight the Trump administration if it tries to push ahead with only Mexico.

www.theepochtimes.com...

Well at least they are talking