Rejection harder for women?

A few days ago I was browsing Netflix for some decent stand-up and saw Iliza Shlesinger's special called "Elder Millennial". Thought it might be decent seeing as I'm a millennial myself, but I only made it about 15 minutes in before I had to stop. Now she isn't a bad comedian, not the best but has some pretty good jokes. What turned me off was when she started talking about rejection and how it's a mans job to hit on the women. I actually agree with her to some extent, but the first reason she gives for why men should do it was her only rational argument in my opinion. The first argument she gives is that women put way more effort into looking good so it should be more incumbent on the man to act first, which I agree with for the most part.

She then goes into how women are treated unequally by society, so when they try to be alpha and hit on a guy it hurts them far more than a guy being rejected. She says that women are more emotionally fragile than men and cannot handle rejection as well because men are better at suppressing their emotions. Rejection hurts women on a very deep level she says because in some way it means their eggs were rejected. Before I explain why these arguments are extremely weak I want to point out I very much dislike groups such as MGTOW which believe that women are the cause of all problems and it's better to just live without them, but nor am I a fan of feminist ideologies which try to paint men as the problem to everything.

The first misconception here is that men don't feel as many emotions and are better at handling rejection. It may be true to some extent for some guys but men are still perfectly capable of feeling deep emotions, just because they may not show it all the time doesn't mean they don't feel it. Take Elliot Rodger's for example, he flatly stated on video that his plan to indiscriminately kill people was spurred on by the intense pain and loneliness he felt due to constant rejection by women. Obviously that's no excuse what so ever for what he did and I'm guessing he also had other mental health issues, but it does show us men are perfectly capable of suffering from deep emotional scarring that effects them for long periods of time.

Also, when a women rejects a man, on some level the guy knows she is rejecting him as a potential mating partner, thus rejecting his sperm, so the egg argument holds no water what so ever. Not to mention a women is far less likely to be rejected when hitting on a man, because as we all know, and as studies have even proven, men have much lower standards and many traits that women find unattractive on men are actually desirable for women. For example a women with pale skin is often something men find attractive, a guy with pale skin is a geek. Even a nerdy girl with glasses is considered cute by a surprisingly large fraction of men. A short girl is also attractive to men because they tend to like petite women which are shorter than themselves.

Although it's also fine if a women is tall because men like long legs. Doesn't really matter if a girl has small or large breasts, there's a large group of men for every shape and size, many guys don't even care about the size... guys have one main thing where women care about the size, obviously some women don't care much but it's clear that percentage of women isn't close to the percentage of guys who don't care about breast size. Eliza mentions that maybe one day in a Utopian world where men and women are treated equally, maybe women will be able to hit on men just as much as men hit on women. So if the chance of rejection is so much lower for women, why is it so hard to do it now, the patriarchy isn't going to stop it.

I'm sure most guys would love being hit on by a women. Now I'm not saying women should go out and hit on men out of empathy or some moral code, just do what ever feels right and makes you feel good. See I don't understand what it is these feminist want most of the time... do they want women to hit on them most of time because they put in so much effort to look attractive and because they want to protect their fragile emotions, or should we stop hitting on women and stand against the evil patriarchy so that everyone is treated equally and fairly? I just don't understand. It's like the only time these feminist truly want equality is when that equality doesn't involve taking on any undesirable responsibilities.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Like you, I don't think gender has anything to do with who takes rejection harder.

It all depends on one's personality and level of self confidence.

Personally, I think women still prefer to have men initiate contact. I believe the majority of women still like a man who has a "take charge" personality, proving that they're capable of taking charge of difficult life situations once they partner up.

a reply to: Deetermined

Personally, I think women still prefer to have men initiate contact. I believe the majority of women still like a man who has a "take charge" personality, proving that they're capable of taking charge of difficult life situations once they partner up.

Well I think if Iliza proved anything with her rant it's that. I made a thread not too long ago where I was trying to get across why it's dangerous to teach young boys to grow into these feminist sissies, because in reality that's not what the majority of women desire. Of course the responses from several women were quick to tell me why I'm wrong for making assumptions about what women like.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Of course the responses from several women were quick to tell me why I'm wrong for making assumptions about what women like.

Once again, I think that depends on the personality of the woman. There are plenty of women who are control freaks these days, but I guaranty that someday they're going to end up complaining that they resent the fact that they have to be the one to take control of everything! That's usually how it turns out! LOL!

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Like you, I don't think gender has anything to do with who takes rejection harder.

It all depends on one's personality and level of self confidence.

Personally, I think women still prefer to have men initiate contact. I believe the majority of women still like a man who has a "take charge" personality, proving that they're capable of taking charge of difficult life situations once they partner up.

As for who should make first contact, I think we live in different times. It was always the man who generally was expected to get the ball rolling. These days you do see women taking the lead more often than not.

It depends on personality and if you are willing to put your heart out there, knowing there is a chance it could get burned.

I agree. I don't think gender has anything to do with how well you take rejection.
Myself, I take it quite badly and too heart. Having been rejected more often than not throughout my life, I can't get a hold on it and I don't think i ever will.

a reply to: Deetermined

Try rejecting a female wanting some, no matter the cause at the moment, and see how you dont get get some when the timing is right for you.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Hmmm... I just wrote a comment in another thread about how we all need to stop telling people who and what they are based on our sex organs.

So I agree with you that the idea that rejection is harder for women than men is ridiculous. Neither gender is more sensitive -- or insensitive -- than the other. Lots of men are more sensitive than lots of women... and vice versa.

a reply to: rhynouk

Relationships are hard for everyone, but they're worth the risk once you find someone that you have a lot in common and can share your life with.

As a woman, I've probably done more rejecting than being rejected, but it still took me until the age of 40 to marry someone I thought I could spend the rest of my life with and who I thought was capable themselves of honoring a life long commitment.

Don't give up. Do what you need to in order to booster your self confidence in order to keep moving forward towards building meaningful relationships.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Try rejecting a female wanting some, no matter the cause at the moment, and see how you dont get get some when the timing is right for you.

It's true. For many, it's all about self satisfaction with limited compromise. It's the same for all genders.

a reply to: Deetermined

Dudes dont get some the first time they try and they keep trying, and trying, and trying, and trying, and trying, and trying, and trying.

a reply to: Deetermined

I'll take your advice and see what happens. Thank you.

Having recently had a promotion at work, I'm having to deal with people on a different level, which helps confidence wise. I have helped others dealing with rejection, which is odd because I'm just as bad.

a reply to: rhynouk

I have helped others dealing with rejection, which is odd because I'm just as bad.

Ha! Sounds like the best form of therapy to me!

Congratulations on your promotion!

I disagree with her contention that women are more emotionally fragile than men. I think it is the opposite. Because women will share their feelings with friends and family, they have an emotional support system. Men, being encouraged to not be emotional since childhood, will try not to experience the feelings and / or not share them with anyone. And I think this is a big part of the reason why men don't live as long as women. Feelings are such an important part of being human- and "feelings management" is an important thing to get right.

That being said, I think there is a very good reason for women to let men do the chasing. If a woman asks a man out and he says yes, he may have no real interest in her and only be using her for sex, while at the same time the woman thinks she is in a relationship with someone who cares about her. It is a generalization to be sure, and there are exceptions.


Sal



a reply to: ChaoticOrder

a reply to: ChaoticOrder



You do realize that was just a comedy bit , right?

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Deetermined

Try rejecting a female wanting some, no matter the cause at the moment, and see how you dont get get some when the timing is right for you.

Ah, the vending machine male. Put a few words in their ear and they put out any time. If they don't they obviously aren't in to you and you must move on to a more malleable guy.

I think it's harder for women because they don't experience it as often as men. Men get their feelings hardened by the frequency of it. It's the way of our nature to have men chasing women so it only makes sense. That said my wife pursued me. 30 years later I'm glad I didn't reject her.

I think chris rock summed it up best in his stand up.
He said something like
"pussy's expensive, dick is free"

We live in a time when we are supposed to believe everyone should be treated the same. But in reality we are not the same.
Physically, emotionally different.

Instead of embracing the things that make us unique we are told the differences make us weaker.

originally posted by: SallieSunshine
If a woman asks a man out and he says yes, he may have no real interest in her and only be using her for sex, while at the same time the woman thinks she is in a relationship with someone who cares about her. It is a generalization to be sure, and there are exceptions.

Yeah, I'd say that's a pretty gross generalization, to be honest. Oddly enough, many guys are shy, so maybe it takes them a long while to actually work up the nerve to ask said woman out. Sometimes it takes entirely too long, and if they're not careful, some other guy will ask her out first. Other guys are just dumb. Maybe they really like the woman, but they don't think the woman likes them, no matter what signs she gives. They may also fear that if they ask out this woman that has no interest in them, then things will just be weird ever since.

Yes, it is dumb, but many of us guys are like this, which is why rejection can be hard for us as well. It hasn't stopped us from dating or anything, but it can be nerve-wracking. I've been with my wife for almost 9 years, spending practically every single day together, but she's the one who initiated the entire thing. I knew I wanted to get to know her the moment I laid eyes on her, but it was taking me a lot of time to get up the nerve to ask her out. Well, she came up to me at work one day, grabbed my hand, and wrote her number on it.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Rejection is a killer for everyone and as a bloke, I can tell you from personal experience being rejected can be painful as heck depending on the how you're rejected. In my own past I've been rejected let's be nice and say more times than you have fingers and I'm only 32 and most of them have been pretty good and nice about it but there have been a few where I was told: 'Nice personality but shame about the looks' another 'Are you joking? Sorry but I'm out of your league' those two of the worse that I've had although the nicest was 'Can I be honest? I'm not really sure we'd be a match' (she was way out of my league).

I agree with you, men have the same emotions as women. Rejection sucks for everyone. Also women deserve the same respect as men. The human experience is universal and we all need to start recognizing each other as human first.

My only nitpick is please do not confuse a female comic with a feminist. Feminism has been getting a really bad reputation lately which is stupid because women DO deserve to be treated with respect, they deserve to make the same amount of money for the same jobs as men, and they deserve equal representation in positions of power. (And I believe feminists should be working harder to eliminate the habit of sexually objectifying women in the media *especially commercials* and *ESPECIALLY places like billboards where young children are exposed to these messages every day* To get a sense of what that feels like, imagine every day on the way to work you were bombarded with images suggesting your dick is too small... men everywhere would be asking their girlfriends “Do these pants make me look to small?”).

I would argue that the feminist position is that women have as much right to take the initiative as men and should feel free to hit on men. Studies show women who make thd first move on dating sites end up with more appealing mates. Also, hitting on guys works great for me!