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NTS Christ died for the ungodly

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posted on Sep, 9 2018 @ 06:44 AM
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originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: Raggedyman

Well, this is kind of my point in that, what IS the point of heaven or paradise or whatever afterlife people want to call it if it's nothing more than worshipping some one/thing?

It is not about worshipping any thing. Heaven is the end of all separate things. Things conflict and Heaven is about the end of conflict.
Heaven is here now and here now is not made of things. The PRESENT (the gift) is ever present...........but concepts and words and language make believe there are other things.
You assume that there is time where you did things and will do things....but now is happening as it is....who is doing now?
It is the thought stories that say that you should be a certain way....or thought stories that say that life should be a certain way.... that makes life not blissful.
Life is simply happening........there isn't a separate you.

edit on 9-9-2018 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 9 2018 @ 06:49 AM
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a reply to: noonebutme

Where do you get that idea from
Your concept of worship is as myopic as some pentacostal Christians

Loving other people is a form of worshiping God, we don't understand what worship really is and how it works
It's not just singing kum by yah or playing harps on a cloud

Remember God created earth for humanity, all the good things, all the love, joy, passion happiness, God knows what we like



posted on Sep, 9 2018 @ 09:39 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
Remember God created earth for humanity

That isn't evident. The earth was the result of billions of years of dust swirling and coalescing into a planet orbiting a solar mass. And a further billion(s) of years until life was present from the combination of inorganic compounds to form the basis of single celled organisms.

And what about the other billions of planets out there? Are they created for us? Funny how religious texts (which is the entire basis of your beliefs, regardless of whether you identify as a Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc) make no mention of the other planets out in the galaxy, many of which appear to have the conditions to harbour life.

Did your God also make them for 'other' types of people? Are we just one of his creations?

Based on the observable, there is nothing to suggest this planet is 'for us'. We've been here, what - 180k to 200k years? Dinosaurs dominated for many, many millions of years. Was the planet for them? If not, why not?

You've chosen a 'point in time' and declared it ours. I'm looking at the bigger picture and seeing out existence as a minute spec in that timeline. So why are we so important?

It makes no sense.



posted on Sep, 9 2018 @ 09:44 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
Where do you get that idea from

From the majority of language of religious texts which all 'command' people to love and worship God/Jesus/the spirit/Allah, etc.

And if you don't...well, it won't be nice for you. And it's interesting the language used by proponents of religion. They will say, 'Oh you don't *have* to love him. No one if forcing you. BUT...'. There's always a 'but'. Which is typically some form of punishment or maliciousness.



posted on Sep, 9 2018 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: noonebutme

If you know God then you will love him
But
If you don't you won't
You say it won't be nice for you, what do you really think you deserve from your life, do you really think you are a good person

I bet you think you deserve, because you think you are a great person
Not likely, sorry

Do you know why we have police and a legal system, because people are not very nice, go figure
You know why Christians want God to return, because we want righteous judgement and an end to pain

If you don't believe "this" was created for us then fine, I believe it was
The " others" are the non Jews, that's self evident, obvious to non conspiracy theorists

Why are we so important, because God created us to be like Him and He loves us. God values relationship, God is love

The problem here nobm, discussing this with you is pointless, you are just trying to point score and be a hero
I am not interested in that game

Don't believe, why go on but? Are you trying to evangelise me to atheism, why?
Look in the mirror



posted on Sep, 9 2018 @ 01:06 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
You say it won't be nice for you, what do you really think you deserve from your life, do you really think you are a good person

Nothing. I don't think anyone 'deserves' anything just for being alive and/or being good. At least not in the metaphysical or cosmic karma sense. However, in terms of society and human evolution then of course, being good and kind is required so that our species managed to survive to what we are now.


I bet you think you deserve, because you think you are a great person

No, not in the slightest. I don't 'deserve' anything. I don't feel or believe that I am special and better than the next person. (Unless that next person is a murderer, thief, abuser, etc - for which I think the majority of us *are* better)

As I alluded to, I do not think the universe owes me anything or that I deserve X or Y because I feel goodness in my heart.


Do you know why we have police and a legal system

Yes, most societies comprised of normal human beings do.


because people are not very nice, go figure

*Some* people are not very nice. Not everyone. I think you're a nice person as are the majority of ATSers. But a society works because we have rules, rules which should be followed and we need (ahem, impartial) people to manage and enforce those rules.


You know why Christians want God to return, because we want righteous judgement and an end to pain

What about me? I don't believe in the Christian God. Neither do many other non-Christian religions. Should all those normal, good people we cast to hell?


Why are we so important, because God created us to be like Him and He loves us. God values relationship, God is love

How is God love? A god that watches with indifference as children are raped and abused and does....nothing. A god that watches 6 million people gassed to death and does...nothing. A god that allows a child to develop brain cancer and die before it is 3. What sort of "love" is that?


The problem here nobm, discussing this with you is pointless, you are just trying to point score and be a hero
I am not interested in that game

Point score? Be a hero? Not in the slightest. I initially was countering your position about heaven and your claim that the Earth was 'made' for us. Granted this is the religious forum where proof and evidence are dirty words. But I was/am genuinely curious to know how and why you believe your position. Was/is it blind faith because a book says so? Or do you have different, more deeper assertions due to something you feel a connection to?


Don't believe, why go on but? Are you trying to evangelise me to atheism, why?
Look in the mirror

Evangelise? No, and if it sounds like that then, my apologies. I think my main point was going back to what you said earlier about 'deserve'. To me, everything I can see has no higher power moving it or governing it. The fact that at any minute an asteroid could smash into the earth and wipe us all out, or a solar flare could cleanse the Earth of everything suggests that life IS nothing more than a bright, microscopic flash in an otherwise cold and bleak universe. There is no supreme being keeping us safe or out of danger - look at all the atrocities committed in His name, and they keep getting away with it. Where's the justice? Where's the godly father keeping his children safe and showing them 'love' ? I just don't see it.

What I do see is an impartial, unbiased, logic-based universe ticking along with us blinking in and out of existence. Maybe that sounds bleak, but to me, it emphasises the idea that we (collectively) should embrace and love each other *without* the use of scare tactics like religion or deities or archaic belief systems that judge, separate and execute people.

As the youth of today so frequently say, "Just saying'..."

edit on 9-9-2018 by noonebutme because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2018 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: noonebutme

Well Said, Laddy...
Well Said.

Can You Tell God That For Me...
He Keeps Selling Me To Death... As If The First 100 Weren't Enough. He Always Sends Some Snarky Nutcase To Preach His Cause... Trying To Convince Me That Death Is Much More Suitable Than A Life Without Him. Falsely Claiming That There Is A Great Reward For Me. I'm Border Line Kicking His Ass If I See Him.



posted on Sep, 9 2018 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: noonebutme


Why argue with my comments, I don't get that
You disagree, fine, but why argue

I get you don't believe, that's simple enough, but why argue with my faith.
Read, listen and disagree but accept I believe

Your beliefs are a mess, illogical and whimsical, no disrespect but I don't understand how you believe what you believe

As a Christian I believe God has gifted us with freewill, you then think God should not allow His creation freewill and constantly intervene?
You know with children, you have to let them live their lives, but you want God to be...to be what exactly? Step in every time someone does wrong or only when someone does what you really bad things, what's the line
In the OT God allowed the destruction of many tribes and people are still complaining about the brutal sadistic God today

God gave humanity freewill, that's love, allowing you to choose
Choose wisely


Reading your comments it's evident this life is everything to you.
To me, life or death, it's nothing, there is a better place I can be.
When people die they are released from the pain of this broken world, to you this existence is everything
Our perspectives are opposite, how can you understand?

edit on 9-9-2018 by Raggedyman because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2018 @ 08:11 PM
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originally posted by: Pinocchio
a reply to: noonebutme

Well Said, Laddy...
Well Said.

Can You Tell God That For Me...
He Keeps Selling Me To Death... As If The First 100 Weren't Enough. He Always Sends Some Snarky Nutcase To Preach His Cause... Trying To Convince Me That Death Is Much More Suitable Than A Life Without Him. Falsely Claiming That There Is A Great Reward For Me. I'm Border Line Kicking His Ass If I See Him.


This is just awesome. Noonebutme and I are having a discussion, pointless and circular but reasonable anyway and then you
Why?
You are going to kick Gods ass, really, yet you infer you dont believe in him
Thats big words? empty words? Trying to be tough, cool, relevant, anti christian, anti God, a God you dont believe in

You talk about snarky nutcases
There are so many other forums on ats but look, here you are, hmmm

So what do you really want Pinochio



posted on Sep, 10 2018 @ 04:50 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
Why argue with my comments, I don't get that
You disagree, fine, but why argue
I get you don't believe, that's simple enough, but why argue with my faith.

Because this is a public forum open to debate and discussion. You're allowed to voice your position, I'm allowed to voice my counter position in a rational, decent manner.


Read, listen and disagree but accept I believe

I accept you believe. I just believe you are wrong and I'm illustrating why.

...ahem...
Why are you arguing with my comments, I don't get that
You disagree, fine, but why argue?
I get that you don't believe my counter position, that's simple enough, but why argue with my evidenced-based approach?


Your beliefs are a mess, illogical and whimsical

I argue yours are far more so than mine.


no disrespect but I don't understand how you believe what you believe

None taken, but I ask you the exact same question. At least my 'beliefs' are based on what's observable. Yours are based on the irrational fear of the unknown.


You know with children, you have to let them live their lives, but you want God to be...to be what exactly? Step in every time someone does wrong or only when someone does what you really bad things, what's the line

The line is this: your claim is God is real and loves everyone. Yet your god lets truly horrific things happen to innocent people, specifically children. How is that love? How does your God, a divine being of love, allow children to be raped? Explain that to me please. I love my children and would never allow that or die trying to prevent it. Yours does not.


Reading your comments it's evident this life is everything to you.
To me, life or death, it's nothing, there is a better place I can be.
When people die they are released from the pain of this broken world, to you this existence is everything
Our perspectives are opposite, how can you understand?

I can understand. I still ask how you justify a 'loving God' with child abuse.

As a father, i would give my life to save my children from harm and honestly, any other child in harms way. If i knew of a child being abused, I would do everything I could to stop it.

Your God does not. He sits with indifference, in your 'heaven', watching silently. Perhaps 'tsk-tsk'ing'. But hey -- the abuser gets their punishment in the afterlife, right? This is the standard position by the religious who believe in God.

I argue there is no God loving us, looking after us, guiding us from evil, protecting us from harm, hence why all these horrible things can happen. Why an asteroid can demolish the earth, or a solar flare could cook us all alive - because this is real, this is reality. Not fiction.



posted on Sep, 10 2018 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: noonebutme

if God was indifferent He wouldn't have sent Jesus

Ok,mGod should stop child abuse I agree, should God kill every child abuser before they commit an act, while doing the act,M what's the line in the sand, please tell me
Does corporal punishment work, is the death sentence acceptable, many believe not
I believe in the death sentence, I have been called a savage because I think some criminals should die
Is abortion child abuse, should....

God doesn't say He is indifferent, God says judgement is coming
Christians pray " thy kingdom come thy will be done" and because we want justice just like you, we are condemned because we want the world to end

Damned if you don't damned if you do



posted on Sep, 17 2018 @ 02:08 PM
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The most recent thread in this series is Christ our paschal Lamb



posted on Oct, 1 2018 @ 02:14 PM
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The most recent thread in this series is But God raised him up



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI
The most recent thread in this series is;
If anyone is in Christ



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

So then what are the differences between the Kingdom Gospel, the Gospel of the grace of God and the everlasting Gospel?

The gospel of the Kingdom is preached as the Kingdom which is at hand (taught by Jesus before his death, by John the baptist before his death and by the disciples before the calling of Paul) Matthew 3:1; Matthew 4, Mark 1:14 and more. The Gospel of the grace of God (taught by Paul and his followers) 1Cor 15:1-4. And the Everlasting Gospel (taught by an Angel) Rev 14:6.

When you have those three correctly divided then go back and correct your teachings where needed so you are not confusing the three. Then your scholarly work will be accurate and will receive the rewards Jesus has promised.


edit on 10-12-2018 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

Why is it so many people who don't believe will always say stuff like, "then God should stop (insert whatever problem you want him to stop here)"

God didn't cause any of it, it has been allowed by him and he certainly could stop it. But did you know that if he was to stop "the name what you want God to stop" then there would not be a single person left to be saved.



edit on 10-12-2018 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn
I see no reason to theorise a difference between them.
You use the phrase "rightly dividing" like a mantra, but I think you fail to notice that the emphasis should be on "rightly". It does not justify creating unnecessary distinctions.



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 04:41 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

You above all people know that "Rightly dividing the word of truth" is a commandment or a least an instruciton.

Oh, wait, I am sorry, I forgot you don't believe that God is strong enough to preserve his words unto this generation in any English Bible.

Sorry for wasting your time.


edit on 10-12-2018 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 04:43 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn
Yes, and the emphasis is on RIGHTLY, not on DIVIDING.
So if you insist on dividing wrongly and unnecessarily (which is a legalistic habit), you do not obey the command.




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