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NTS Christ died for the ungodly

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posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 08:21 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Time for a Last and Final Testament...none of the others has worked.




posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 08:27 AM
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a reply to: ParasuvO
I haven't heard him say so. Parhaps you have a more direct line of contact.



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

If you confess with your mouth you shall be saved.

Every knee will bow and every tongue confess

The Armenian god is too weak to save all people

The Calvinist god is a cruel tyrant that chooses people to suffer

The God says that all means all and he will not stop until every thing is brought into subjection. That subjection to the son is the same as the subjection from son to father or wife to husband. It is not forced it is through love. A love that never ever fails.

Remember “then comes the end when he has subjected all things” this is the end. Not revelation with those still outside the gate. That isn’t the last scene of revelation anyway. That would be the new heaven and new earth where there are no tears. After death has been destroyed

The last enemy to be destroyed is death then comes the end.

The lake of fire is death. It does not last forever just until the age of the ages or the summation or reconciliation of all things as god spoke of before to his holy prophets. (2pet?)

All means all. All shall be made alive. The same all that die under Adam. Your references are early in the timeline.

Every tongue eventually



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 08:48 AM
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originally posted by: zardust
If you confess with your mouth you shall be saved.
Every knee will bow and every tongue confess

These can't be linked up, because they refer to different occasions (and therefore different forms of "confessing").
The first relates to the present state of the world, when we can know God only by faith. As you know, the preceding words are "If you believe in your heart". So this promise relates to the confession of faith.
The second relates to the time when Christ returns, when we cannot escape recognising the presence of God. So that is a forced and unavoidable "confession", not the confession of faith.
Merely verbal similarity is not enough.


That isn’t the last scene of revelation anyway. That would be the new heaven and new earth where there are no tears. After death has been destroyed

And that is a scene from which certain people have already been excluded. There is a judgement scene first. Every "all" that follows relates to those who have come safely through the judgement.



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

2 occasions um no that’s actualy hilarious but ok. Dude go back and read those chapters. In fact all of 1 co. With regards to all.

Who was in Adam? All

Same all shall be made alive. This is in regard to the resurrection. It’s almost like Paul keeps repeating himself in different ways so the hard hearted will get it. Man of heaven vs man of dust. Who wins? Who is more powerful? The man of heaven. And in his unending love tha never fails all are made alive.

I know you like word studies. Please do one on all. You will see that it does in fact mean all things including all men. There are a small fraction that may not mean that but especially in Paul’s letters.

Either not all men die in Adam or all men are made alive meaning brought into the new creation. It’s a formula used multiple times. A direct comparison.



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: zardust
Your mistake is that you are gathering together every usage of the word "all" that you can find, and treating it as though it meant the same thing every time. That is illegitimate. Language does not work like that.
What you need to understand is that the application of words may change according to the context.
I have already pointed out how that affects the word "confess". In the case of the word "all", you are dragging in references to "all who are saved" and trying to use them as proof that "everybody is saved".
It is the reverse mistake to that of Chester John, who insists that "kingdom of God" and "kingdom of heaven" must be different things, because they are different expressions, but it comes out of the same pedantic legalism.

You cannot get past the fact that the New Testament, including the teaching of Jesus, consistently talks of a division between two classes of people. You can't wipe out that teaching by manipulation of language.


edit on 25-8-2018 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Re you joking? I’ve given you multiple instances of all meaning all yet you ignore them and try to argue semantics.

You just can’t stand the fact that God will save all people as repeatedly declared in the new and Old Testament and which accords with the nature of Jesus. Your timeline is off and your imaginary divisions of prophetic events as a simple write off of my argument is weak. You have not actually answered a single one. Please let’s go with the most simple.

In the multiple instances where the word pan is used by Paul in the same verse, chapter and book compare the direct effect of Adams sin. Death to all

In the exact same formulary (and yes that’s what it is since it is repeated multiple times.) Christ makes all alive. Now within these chapters and books with these formularies I’ve given multiple supporting evidence of what it is referring to.

I love how you keep referring to two sets of people. Almost like the Jews insisted of the gentiles. It’s almost as if Paul addressed this. Oh that’s right he did within the same context as Adams all and Christ’s all.

The one new man refers to the entire creation as Christ is the firstborn over wait for it...pan creation.

You still live within a dualistic mindset of Armenian or Calvinist as if those are the only two ways. It is an a priori assumption that all cannot mean all because you know that some end up in hell.

No every tongue confessing can’t actually mean that i mean look at the context of Romans 14 speaking of clean and unclean vessels.

The spirit and the bride say come. The gates are never shut. Love never fails until all is reconciled to God.



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.


Tell me please what part of the all here does not equal the all.

Maybe he didn’t create all things. Maybe reconcile doesn’t mean reconcile. Maybe it’s two different events. Maybe all the fullness isn’t in him.

Come into the light. The mystery that was hidden from ages past is that the dividing wall was broken down.(more direct and meta context with the mystery and the reconciliation of all) Some now some later eventually all. All things are reconciled to him. The same all things that he created.



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: zardust
In the first place, the division is not something I have imagined. It is clearly stated in the words of Jesus, which I have quoted, and which you have not tried to gainsay.
It is also clearly stated in the teaching of Paul. In that same 1 Corinthians, Paul says "the unrighteous shall not enter the kingdom of God" (ch6 v9). So a clear distinction there between those entering the kingdom and the unrighteous.
Or again, those who do not know God "shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of God and from the glory of his might" (1 Thessalonians ch1 v9).
So the true statement of the case is that you "just can't stand" the fact that the New Testament warns of a judgement and a division, and carefully blind yourself to any appearance of that teaching.

Since Paul himself says the unrighteous will not enter the kingdom, then his references to "all" cannot mean that everyone will enter the kingdom and live. If they did, then he would be contradicting himself.
So the point that I have made before is applicable; the benefit of being "made alive" is available to everyone in principle, but not everyone takes it. There will be some who must be classed as "unrighteous". Paul says so.
The line in 1 Corinthians ch15 should be expanded to "Everyone who is made alive will be made alive in Christ Jesus".
(Alternatively, it could be pointed out that there is a resurrection to judgement as well as a resurrection to eternal life.)

You say that "Every tongue will confess" can't have the meaning that I've explained. You don't tell us why it can't have that meaning, except that you refer to Romans ch14. Now you are the one who is ignoring context, because Romans ch14 is entirely about the way members of the Christian community should treat other members of the Christian community. It has nothing to say about people outside that group.


The spirit and the bride say Come

This is the church (the bride) and their spokesman, the spirit, addressing Christ and urging him to return. Relevance not clear.

The gates are never shut

BUT (only 2 verses later) nothing unclean will enter them, "nor anyone who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life."
There's that division again. You ignored that bit, didn't you?



edit on 25-8-2018 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Not ignoring it. You just dont grasp the timeline. The gates are open until all walk through once they’ve washed their clothes. At that point the last enemy to be destroyed is death. That isn’t the all in all the end.

You still have not addressed the main point. Please oh please explain how all in Adam and all in Christ is not all. I’ll wait.

Also the bride and the lamb say come. You are quite mistaken here. What is the relevance? They are calling come to those outside the gate which is never closed. The call never stops as in love never fails.

And what about those pesky leaves of the tree of life that are for healing the nations. Why would people who are already perfected need healing? It’s for the people outside the gate as in the divided class.
edit on 25 8 2018 by zardust because: (no reason given)

edit on 25 8 2018 by zardust because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: zardust
No, I did cover that bit.

Since Paul himself says the unrighteous will not enter the kingdom, then his references to "all" cannot mean that everyone will enter the kingdom and live. If they did, then he would be contradicting himself.
So the point that I have made before is applicable; the benefit of being "made alive" is available to everyone in principle, but not everyone takes it. There will be some who must be classed as "unrighteous". Paul says so.
The line in 1 Corinthians ch15 should be expanded to "Everyone who is made alive will be made alive in Christ Jesus".
(Alternatively, it could be pointed out that there is a resurrection to judgement as well as a resurrection to eternal life.)



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Oh i thought you might actually try to address it. 🤷‍♂️



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: zardust

Also the bride and the lamb say come. You are quite mistaken here. What is the relevance? They are calling come to those outside the gate which is never closed.

You are misquoting. Look at the text. The Lamb says nothing in this verse.
The Spirit and the Bride are speaking. We are the Bride. We and the Spirit are talking TO the Lamb, and urging him to fulfil his promise and come back to us.
Then, in the next line, John urges those who hear [that is, those listening to the book of Revelation being read aloud] to echo that appeal of "Come". We all want Christ to come.
ch22 v17

So you are building up your case from misunderstood Bible references?






edit on 25-8-2018 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 11:27 AM
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The Lamb... Reminds me of Moses.

In the sense of the plagues...

Burning Bush/Cigar Smoking Commander
Bricks & Straw/Politics & Good Relations
Water To Blood/Union
Frogs/Menacing & Inciting
Gnats/Invasion & Stronghold
Flies/Hostages
Blight/Blockade
Sores/Depravation
Hail & Thunder/Assault
Locusts/Plunder
Darkness/Usurpation (Marshal & Garrison)
First Born Slain/Murder (Enemy Marshal & Garrison)

They Were GANGSTERS...

The Lamb has only to take his place amongst the spirit (Banner/Image Of God/Man) and Bride.

I wish to elaborate. But my posts get cut short when. I click post. Plus.... It's kinda a long story



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 11:29 AM
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You guys both make strong points.
Is it possible to cooperate and collaborate for the fruition of ATS.



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 11:30 AM
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The Honor Comes From Gangsters.
Not from lambs... Slay a Lamb of God and his vengeance is wroth and full. Cups of wrath are not for sipping



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 12:53 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

You are correct, my bad the spirit and bride. Same thing. The Lord is the Spirit, and where the spirit of the lord is there is liberty.

17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

Let the one who is thirsty come. The bride is the church or those already saved, then there is the spirit, is the Son the one who is thirsty? Does he need to come take the water of life? No it is those outside the gate who were just referenced.

15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

You are correct two separate groups at this point. What haven't they done yet?

14“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

This is who is being called to, those outside the gates. And those gates never shut. And the spirit and the bride don't stop calling until every single sheep is found. Or every prodigal son comes home, out of the pig stye, or outside the gates.

Just because this is the last book in the bible doesn't mean it is the end of the story.

1 Co 15 has the very last viewpoint, when all enemy's have been defeated. When all have been subjected into the fullness of the son, then into the fullness of God.



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 01:03 PM
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It says at the end of the good book in the end of the last book..... "God despises a Coward!"...

The test of heart is to see if the lost Lamb will be brave enough to take the fall. He who clings to life... Is blah blah blah. He who does not cling to life is blah blah blah. Then comes God. Enemies fear and loathe him. He is A-Bad-Don and he commands an army of locusts. They are totally amazing folk.
Locusts for a day is absolutely glorious. Locusts everyday is heaven to A Bad Don. And Loathsome to the ones who kill the lamb.



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 01:07 PM
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The Spirit is all Encompassing. Before you can see it for all it's glory... You will see fly on the Hoist.
It's your father's flag. Your flag. The flag of your people. That there is just a taste of paradise.
If it means that much to you .... Then twofold it means to God. And tenfold will your enemies reap in that which they sow. Thanks for listening.
I love my status as outcast. But I love my stupidity even more. Flags.... They are the Holy Spirit. But the gift of eternal life is up for grabs. Don't let go!

Go and be created in the image of God! Tooodles
edit on 25-8-2018 by Pinocchio because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 01:21 PM
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The Church Is Not A Temple Made Of Sticks And Stones. It Is Bought With The Bread And Wine Of The Day. Jesus commends Men Who As Lambs Fall.
After The Fall They Rise. Bread Is White (Anxiety) And Yellowish Beige (Phobia). White And Yellow Is Milk And Honey. Drink It Up! The Land Flows With It.
She Is The Empire. Wine. Reddish/Purplish. Those Two Colors Hint To A Tale Of A Rose (Red) Trampled By A PERPETRATOR. Or Purple Traitor. It's A Big No No! Take The Fall, Body And Blood... Arise As Grand Pontiff (Adorned In Yellow And White) And See Her On The Day You Rise Adorned In Purple And Red. She Is Forever Covered In The Blood The Purple Race. A Magic Spell That No Man Can Put Asunder.
The Great Marriage. Till Death Parts You.
Don't know much.... My wife covered in their blood is a fascinating intrigue for me . Plus I think she love it.
Bathed in blood. The question is Does A Game Of Bloody Mary (Mother & Wife) Equal A Grand Pontiff.

No man is her equal. No emperor. Just a Grand Pontiff To Sit At Her Side .

Bread And Wine. Let's Not Play Around With The Grand Pontiff aka 19° Because He Is Forever The Dread And Fear That consumesHis Enemies. She Is Lavished In Vanity Of Blood Forever. God Is Great.
But to him who thinks it a joke . Only Rises to the twentieth Degree wherein Is The Grand Patriarch. That Is Far Worse Than The Empress And Pontiff Combined. He Is:

Psalm: 66:3 (((XOL)))
Say Unto God: "How Terrible Art Thou In The Works!", Through The Greatness Of The Power Shall Thing Enemies Submit Themselves Unto The!.




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