Allen Weisselberg: Trump's financial factotum granted immunity

originally posted by: UKTruth

Flynn was charged with lying to the FBI about a perfectly legal conversation with the Russian Ambassador.

Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about the nature and extent of his contact with Russians during the period before President Trump was inaugurated. If his conversations were perfectly legal why did he lie about them?

The fact is they weren't perfectly legal. They were, in effect, violations of the Logan Act, a very seldom invoked (for obvious reasons) law that prohibits private citizens from dealing with hostile foreign powers in a way that undermines the foreign policy of the United States Government.

Logan Act:

en.wikipedia.org...

The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953, enacted January 30, 1799) is a United States federal law that criminalizes negotiation by unauthorized persons with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States. The intent behind the Act is to prevent unauthorized negotiations from undermining the government's position. . . . Violation of the Logan Act is a felony.

A statement of what General Flynn pleaded guilty to, (not one conversation but a series of back and forth communications between the Russian ambassador and the Trump Transition Team) is at the following link:

www.vox.com...

It includes reference to lies and lies of omission in documents filed in compliance with the Foreign Agents Registration Act when he was acting as an agent for the Republic of Turkey.

a reply to: ipsedixit

Flynn was perfectly entitled to have conversations with foreign nationals as part of the transition to a new govt. The Logan Act isn't even applied to private citizens, never mind those in the midst of a handover from an outgoing govt.

He was taken down for lying to the FBI about doing his job correctly. I would have thought it obvious why he said he didn't remember or downplayed discussions he had. The phony Russian story was being pushed. Mistake on his part, but the nature of his 'lies' to the FBI and what happened to him afterwards tells you exactly why Trump will not talk to a scumbag like Mueller.

a reply to: UKTruth

Read the document. It details negotiations intended to undermine the foreign policy of the Obama Administration, negotiations which were illegal. That's why he lied about them.

The Logan Act says "unauthorized persons". That's anybody not authorized by the government, the Obama Administration, in this case.

President Johnson referred to a similar incident involving Richard Nixon when he was a candidate for president. He contacted representatives of North Vietnam, offering better terms on peace, with a Republican administration, if they would hold out until after the election of 1968.

Nixon wasn't charged but in conversation about the incident, President Johnson called it "treason".

a reply to: Arnie123

What do you think immunity is for?

a reply to: Arnie123

Ummm yeah.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: UKTruth

Read the document. It details negotiations intended to undermine the foreign policy of the Obama Administration, negotiations which were illegal. That's why he lied about them.

The Logan Act says "unauthorized persons". That's anybody not authorized by the government, the Obama Administration, in this case.

President Johnson referred to a similar incident involving Richard Nixon when he was a candidate for president. He contacted representatives of North Vietnam, offering better terms on peace, with a Republican administration, if they would hold out until after the election of 1968.

Nixon wasn't charged but in conversation about the incident, President Johnson called it "treason".

I read it.

The Logan act has not been used for decades to indict anyone. I believe the last prosecution was in the 1800's.
Private citizens talking to foreign govts. is commonplace now and the Logan Act is irrelevant.

If Mueller was really using the Logan Act as his battering ram then it just underscores the reason why Trump won't talk to him, but I very much doubt that Flynn was ever concerned about being indicted under the Logan Act and thus would not have been the reason he lied.

I rather suspect that he lied because the liberal media was pushing Russia Russia Russia 24/7 and he did not want to give them more column inches.
Far more likely don't you think?

a reply to: UKTruth

Flynn was ever concerned about being indicted under the Logan Act and thus would not have been the reason he lied.

So, what do you think the reason was?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: UKTruth

Flynn was ever concerned about being indicted under the Logan Act and thus would not have been the reason he lied.

So, what do you think the reason was?

Added above - he didn't want to add fuel to the 24/7 Russia narrative in the media.

a reply to: UKTruth

he didn't want to add fuel to the 24/7 Russia narrative in the media.

But he was talking (lying) to the FBI. Not the media.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: UKTruth

he didn't want to add fuel to the 24/7 Russia narrative in the media.

But he was talking (lying) to the FBI. Not the media.

As we've seen with leaks - pretty much the same thing.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Molsons?

Sounds like a good goal

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: cosmickat
a reply to: Arnie123
Atm it's another interesting development.

If his CFO has been granted immunity....you have got to wonder...immunity from what ???

*facepalm*

Because it involves Trump and so the current investigation on its over-reach will grant him immunity to talk, standars tactic MO, a novice sees right thru it

Remember, they don't care for Russian Collusion, the MO has shifted from that to finance violations, the goal is to ouster Trump, regardless of what.

originally posted by: HunkaHunka
Sounds like a good goal

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: cosmickat
a reply to: Arnie123
Atm it's another interesting development.

If his CFO has been granted immunity....you have got to wonder...immunity from what ???

*facepalm*

Because it involves Trump and so the current investigation on its over-reach will grant him immunity to talk, standars tactic MO, a novice sees right thru it

Remember, they don't care for Russian Collusion, the MO has shifted from that to finance violations, the goal is to ouster Trump, regardless of what.

How so? since he found no russian collusion his job is technically over. Sessions could declare it done today if he so desired and it would be legal. He fulfilled his mandated job.

The mental gymnastics that Trump supporters seem to be engaged in after this week must be exhausting.

Manafort
Cohen
Pecker
Weisselberg

I feel like I'm missing someone.

BTW, both things can be true at once - members of the establishment elite are conducting a prepared and coordinated take down (witch-hunt, if you will) of the President, and the President is a vapid, deranged sociopath with a history of unsavory and criminal behavior.

This whole thing has been a giant psychological operation from the start. It's both fascinating and horrifying to watch those on the left and right ingest and disseminate their versions of reality like some hellish game of Telephone.

Trump was put there. Trump will be taken out. And the effects of this Great Show will shape the future for decades to come.

If you think you can figure out the machinations of the most powerful people on earth, you are kidding yourselves.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: HunkaHunka
Sounds like a good goal

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: cosmickat
a reply to: Arnie123
Atm it's another interesting development.

If his CFO has been granted immunity....you have got to wonder...immunity from what ???

*facepalm*

Because it involves Trump and so the current investigation on its over-reach will grant him immunity to talk, standars tactic MO, a novice sees right thru it

Remember, they don't care for Russian Collusion, the MO has shifted from that to finance violations, the goal is to ouster Trump, regardless of what.

How so? since he found no russian collusion his job is technically over. Sessions could declare it done today if he so desired and it would be legal. He fulfilled his mandated job.

Have you noticed item b)i of Mueller's marching orders? ..."any matters that arose, or may arise directly from the investigation." Rod Rosenstein’s Letter Appointing Mueller Special Counsel

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: cosmickat

And the typical people will come in here and say... But the Clinton Foundation ..... Obama!!

They no doubt will point out the double standard and hypocrisy.

a reply to: UKTruth

Flynn lied because he knew he was doing something illegal.

As for Logan Act indictments, of course they are rare, so are unauthorized persons (American citizens) who attempt to undermine US Government policies by negotiating with hostile foreign powers. On the dumb scale that is much dumber than outright espionage or sabotage.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: HunkaHunka
Sounds like a good goal

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: cosmickat
a reply to: Arnie123
Atm it's another interesting development.

If his CFO has been granted immunity....you have got to wonder...immunity from what ???

*facepalm*

Because it involves Trump and so the current investigation on its over-reach will grant him immunity to talk, standars tactic MO, a novice sees right thru it

Remember, they don't care for Russian Collusion, the MO has shifted from that to finance violations, the goal is to ouster Trump, regardless of what.

How so? since he found no russian collusion his job is technically over. Sessions could declare it done today if he so desired and it would be legal. He fulfilled his mandated job.

Have you noticed item b)i of Mueller's marching orders? ..."any matters that arose, or may arise directly from the investigation." Rod Rosenstein’s Letter Appointing Mueller Special Counsel

All of that stuff is things that require a president to be removed first though correct?

originally posted by: UKTruth
All very desperate stuff - especially as a President can not be indicted and can also not be impeached for anything outside his Presidential term.

Some believe that a president could be impeached if it were determined that he had obtained the presidency by defrauding the public during the election. This was one of the main concerns of the framers of the Constitution, to provide for removal of a rascal who had obtained the presidency through fraud.

We don't know enough about the Mueller investigation at this point to say if this idea would come into play.

www.washingtonpost.com...

“At the constitutional convention, the framers repeatedly expressed anxiety about the president seeking to obtain office through corrupt means. In fact, that was one of the principal reasons they included an impeachment power in the first place.”

The question of whether a sitting president can be criminally indicted is not agreed upon.

Having said that, a sitting vice president, Spiro Agnew, has been criminally indicted and was in office at the time.

One of his principal lawyers, Martin London, thinks that a sitting president could also be indicted.

time.com...

There is no language in the Constitution providing the President with any immunity from prosecution by the appropriate criminal authorities: he is subject to the ordinary criminal processes of “Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to law.” Furthermore, there is not one syllable directly putting the President beyond the reach of the criminal law even if Congress does not impeach.

The DOJ guidance on the matter, specifying that a sitting president not be indicted, is just a recommended procedure and could be easily varied according to circumstances, particularly if an indictment involved alleged obstruction of justice for the purpose of self protection from potential indictment or investigation. Trump's very poorly explained firing of Comey for example.