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The Norths protective Tariffs Fault in causing the civil war.

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posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 01:16 PM
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originally posted by: PyrokudaBoomBoom
a reply to: toms54

Then get a History Degree (Unless you already do) and prove otherwise. Do the real research into the massive amounts of documents and testimony from that time. Don't let your veneration for some long lost relative or figure cloud your judgement. If you are not going to do that, then just move on.


As if your rambling psyco-manifesto qualifies as academic scholarship. Smug attitudes do not count as documentation. Unfounded insults and use of all caps do not pass the bar. Look at your own work before you say something like that.

Aside from your vacuous and repugnant style, all I said was The south will rise again and the south is presented in an unflattering manner in school history courses nationwide. These statements hardly call for your comments. I could just as easily say the same to you.




posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: PyrokudaBoomBoom
a reply to: Irishhaf

So did "every man and women that fought for" the NAZI's in WW2 do so to defend the ideas of the NAZI's? This is a moronic argument that you actually think is clever. It's not. Did you get this from some YouTube "Historian" Video? The fact is, there was a MAJORITY of men and woman who did indeed fight to defend slavery (slavery being just a very small part of it). I'll call it "to preserve the culture of the South." Whatever that means. You are correct, the average poor white was just trying to mostly protect his property and family. However, it was the leadership that HE supported/voted for that put him in that position. Yet to this day, his bitter loser ancestors still blame the North 100%


I am quoting this because it needs to be preserved...

You do realize at one point it was considered laughable to use Nazis in a discussion that has nothing to do with it.

Also since you decided to put words in my mouth while makeing absurd leaps of questionable logic AND threw in a sprinkling of insults for no good reason, I will bid you good day.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 01:28 PM
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originally posted by: PyrokudaBoomBoom
a reply to: Boadicea

You did it again. What is wrong with you? 8 hours of sleep is important. Listen to your mother.


Really? I did what again? Exactly? You don't even say. But you're real darn quick and clear when it comes to being demeaning, dismissive and otherwise insulting. Save it.


Again- where did I say the North wasn't also a bad actor?


Oh dear lord. Now we're playing word games? We both know that I never said any such thing. And we both know that until your last comment you neither denied nor acknowledged the North's bad behavior.


You know us Damn Yankees also suffer from that "crony capitalist" madness too. Or do you honestly think it's a 24-7 party up here? You know we dance, drink, and look South and feel sorry for you....
I'm probably rambling now- sorry


I wish rambling were the problem. So many stereotypes... so many presumptions... so much projections.

I haven't played stupid games with you and I'm not going to. I responded directly to your comments and questions, and I've given substantive answers. And I'm getting nonsense back.

Okay. I'm done with you.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 01:37 PM
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a reply to: toms54

Only a loser would say this.
It's going to be OK man. The CW is old news.
Let it go. Enjoy your life.
Or hell- work on making your society what you think it should be.
Just don't push it back to the 19th century. A lot of people might get upset.
Any you b!tching about my tone. LOL- you need to ask your Orange God to work on his tone first. Then you can come and speak to me.


(post by PyrokudaBoomBoom removed for a manners violation)
(post by PyrokudaBoomBoom removed for a manners violation)

posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 01:51 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Lets just ignore the rube. He is just here to troll and skirt the TnC because he thinks its cute.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 02:28 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

Love you guys.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 02:30 PM
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originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Boadicea

Lets just ignore the rube. He is just here to troll and skirt the TnC because he thinks its cute.


That sounds good to me!




posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 02:40 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 06:00 PM
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The poorest white people in the South never owned slaves, they couldn't afford to feed and house them. When those men signed up for the Confederate army, do people really think they were thinking, "I need to keep my slaves" or was it "I need to fight for my land and southern sovereignty". Virtually any civil war in history has people fighting for sovereignty on there land. Americans fought for sovereignty on there lands against the British who were controlling it from England because of taxation issues
Tariffs are a type of economic tax, people under a federal system will rebel against them and want their sovereignty if they are being unfairly forced upon them.

The plantation owners on the other hand probably needed to keep slavery to be more profitable, so yeah for them slavery needed to stay from their perspective, and they had power and politics and undoubtedly some high ranking officers in the their new army.

I see both sides of the argument in this debate.
edit on 24-8-2018 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 06:30 PM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

That's the thing. There were legitimate sides. To read the history taught today gives the impression the south fought for slavery and racism out of pure hatred because they were evil.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 06:51 PM
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originally posted by: PyrokudaBoomBoom
OH look... Another butt hurt CW loser. Not sure why so many people like you keep insisting the South was repressed or wronged. Only a loser would think that. You blame "those evil Northerners" for all the South’s woes. Obviously, the South didn't work hard enough to improve the situation. The south has more raw materials than the North by far! Why didn't the South work hard on creating a manufacturing base? I'll tell you why- Because ignorance was celebrated and encouraged. And oooooh boy-- is that cancer back fully and metastatic down there. Blaming "outsiders" for the South's unwillingness to pull themselves out of an antiquated economic system is laughable. But wait! Wasn't the South full of God Fearing White Christians who were "self sufficient" and free? You know, the most amazing product of Western Civilization!? Wasn't that the type of society that was supposed to create advancement and progress? Weren’t “those "dumb blacks" and the "unwashed lazy white poor" under control and rightfully put in "their place" so they couldn’t erode the future. The "hardworking" upper classes were in control and the masters of their destiny. So if ANYTHING you believe is true, the South should have won and become the most amazing economic power house of our age. A white Christian bunch of guys is the only way to create a successful society and economy right? Yeah- OK. It sure didn't turn out that way. It took the North dragging the South kicking and screaming for it to even consider entering the 20th century. What started the real scientific/manufacturing infrastructure the South does have now? WW2 and a government agency, that put us on the moon. And what has your society done? It's venerated and romanticized the fantasy of what the South was before the CW. Now days, you only seem to want to think about the past and pleasure yourself to the hundreds of Confederate statues that were erected to help heal your ancestors egos. Come on loser, pull your boot straps up and take responsibility for the South's own failures. Supposedly, that is a tenet of your culture right? Sure the North was more economically powerful. But hey man, that's capitalism. And capitalism is king. Just because your Great-Great-GrandPappy was the 'labor' and not the 'capital' in this situation, doesn't mean that we should feel sorry for you or your ignorant ancestors. The North was/is FAR from perfect.
I love how you say building railroads was somehow a bad thing. Wow… Just wow.
And who was it that beat your Great-Great-GrandPappy? Who was it that had created an economic power house that was able to crush your admittedly fanatical fighting men? A relatively progressive society that had a crap load of (shudder) immigrants! Those “dirty sub-humans” from other countries right!? Oh and it was vastly better educated than the South. You know that evil God Hating Science. That willingness to question the old ways of doing things. Evil stuff I say.
Dude- I’m know I’m being a schmuck here. I’m just tired of having to hear you morons complain about this historical event. It’s long enough ago that you really should just get over it. It’s taken up a HUGE space in your head and society. Look forward to become a healthier person. I have a Great Grandfather who lost a huge family fortune from bad business decisions. Do you see me making excuses for him? Or finding moronic ways to say that it wasn’t his fault? NO. He was an idiot. He lost it all to a more keen businessman. Do I blame him and his ancestors today? NO. And I don’t even really think about it. Why would I? I just bring it up here to show how moronic it is to refight this war constantly. Right or wrong, the victor writes the history. Your Great-Great-GrandPappy lost. I’m sorry. Losing sucks.
I’m at the point where I really don’t care if you all get together and peacefully leave the Union. Go ahead and build your Unfettered Capitalist Christian Dominionist society. Go ahead and put the 10 commandments in your constitution. Don’t put the gays in camps though. We will take them off your hands. We would also like to take the Jews. Both of these folks are high earners and usually great citizens. An awesome tax base indeed. Go ahead and keep teaching your kids the world is 6000 years old. Go ahead and run your society based on a 3000 year old book. Bring back stoning- it will do well on Pay-Per-View. Go ahead and get your women back in the kitchen. Turn her into a walking breeding machine to make sure the “white race is saved!” Go ahead and just let those “lazy poor people” fend for themselves. After all, Jesus will take care of them right? Go ahead and create your utopia. IT WILL BE AWESOME! The true envy of the world.
We are probably all doomed anyways…..
Welcome to ATS Yank!



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 04:41 AM
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Now that I am actually on my computer lets get started.

First:



Second a few questions.

I have seen a few arguments in this thread about economics and it seems tariffs were some sort of reason for the cause and it put pressure on the south.
For one, the Souths economy was based solely on slavery, as another member pointed out, out of the 9 million or so people who lived in all slave states, 3 or so million of them were slaves. Once that was threatened, what do you honestly think would happen? They would just sit back and say "Oh here you go, take away our property"; and like I said in my first post that the cotton gin and Britain already threatening to stop imports on slave labored goods from southern states would have already destroyed their economy with, or without Lincoln, and with or without a civil war or these magic tariffs.

This guy can explain it better so I don't need to write a 1000 word essay:



At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if Lincoln was a racist, or if soldiers in the south didn't agree with slavery; hell even Lee didn't care for it. The leaders of the confederates CLEARLY showed their sole intention was to uphold the institution of slavery any way they can. History doesn't lie, and we are rather lucky that the southern states kept their biased history, and the north kept theirs as well, and guess what, one side has far more evidence than the other because of documents.
It's like arguing that the Vietnam war wasn't started because of colonialist oppression.



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 06:57 AM
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originally posted by: SocratesJohnson
Why did some slave states fight for the north?

Can anyone find southern diary entries talking about fighting for slavery



Because it really wasn't about slaves. In some of the states there were poor people fighting for there state as being invaded. Yet for a lot of people after learning that the S. Carolina gov fired 1st, they went with the USA instead of the CSA. I have family who fought on both sides and my family never ever owned slaves to my knowledge. More likely we were slaves of the English as the Welshmen, Scot's and Irish were at one time or another. I would have been torn I am sure but would never own another human being if I lived in states like AL,TN, GA or MS.

edit on 25-8-2018 by Justoneman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 07:53 AM
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The civil war was fought over succession.

This is glaringly obvious because of what our forefathers did to the natives after 'winning'.


Even more so during the civil rights era in the 60s.

Americans were lied to then just as they are being lied to now.



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 08:04 AM
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a reply to: strongfp

Confederate Traitors Don't Deserve Respect... Really?

As the OP and others have said, of course slavery was an issue. It was not the sole issue.

If the Union went to war over slavery, then please explain the Corwin Amendment. This amendment protecting the institution of slavery was passed in the House of Representatives on On February 28, 1861, by a vote of 133 to 65. The text of the amendment:

No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.

And the passing of the Amendment:

On February 28, 1861, however, the House approved Corwin's version by a vote of 133 to 65... On March 2, 1861, the United States Senate adopted it, with no changes, on a vote of 24 to 12.[13] Since proposed constitutional amendments require a two-thirds majority, 132 votes were required in the House and 24 in the Senate. The Senators and Representatives from the seven slave states that had already declared their secession from the Union did not vote on the Corwin Amendment.

Further, two states -- Virginia and North Carolina -- did not secede until Lincoln insisted on moving Union troops through their states to Fort Sumter in South Carolina. Four others seceded AFTER Fort Sumter and the invasion by the north.

They did not secede to protect slavery, but for protecting states' rights from northern aggression against their rights, including their sovereignty. There was no treason in seceding. They had every right to secede. It's no more treasonous than Brexit.

Lincoln made his position very clear that he had no intention of freeing the slaves, or in any way impeding the system of slavery in the south. Lincoln refused to allow slavery into the expanding states in the west, but he clearly stated that he would not -- and Constitutionally could not -- stop slavery in the south.

And, yes, we do have the documents proving such. The history is well established for those who want to know the truth.
edit on 25-8-2018 by Boadicea because: clarity

edit on 25-8-2018 by Boadicea because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2018 @ 08:35 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Yet you are still out right ignoring the reason and declaration of secession ... which was literally all about keeping slavery. Signed by and voted by each slave owning state. Stop deflecting.

Also, edit:
Lincoln did want emancipation, but he didn't know how to go about it. He wanted to gradually phase it out. And he was heavily criticized for his slow transition plan.
edit on 25-8-2018 by strongfp because: (no reason given)




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