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The Norths protective Tariffs Fault in causing the civil war.

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posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 09:15 AM
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a reply to: yuppa

Nice try, but everyone with any brains whatsoever knows full well the civil war was only and all about slavery. Its like global warming is settled science as is Darwins theory of evolution.

Quit trying to rewrite history; it doesnt work and it only makes you look foolish.




posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 09:22 AM
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Tag for later reading...

Good job OP, enjoyed the read and reminded me of several things I read years ago when I was a kid, tried bringing some of those points up in Govt class with supporting documents and the teacher tossed me from the class.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 10:18 AM
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a reply to: yuppa

I liked your essay but found only one sentence in the entire thing that addresses the cause of the civil war. "But he promised he would invade any state that failed to collect tariffs in order to enforce them." The rest of it goes to why the south seceded which was not illegal or prohibited by the constitution. Contrary to what politicians and school teachers might tell you, war is almost never fought over a moral cause. In fact, I can't think of a single one offhand.

So why did the north invade the south? At first, the war got off to a slow start. It is as if many were unconvinced that it really needed to happen. The idea of a war to collect tariffs sounds weak until we remember that was pretty much the only source of income the federal govt had at the time. One of our first military actions ever was to collect taxes in the whiskey rebellion when Jefferson was president.

The whole thing about the banks was interesting but I don't see it as a causative factor. Lincoln was kind of globalist in his outlook but did not believe in free trade. I read somewhere that he attempted to finance the war through foreign banks but they wanted something like 30% interest so he started a US bank, not a Rothschild bank, as the central bank. Had they not been so greedy, things might have been different. I heard somewhere that Lincoln was a pen pal of Karl Marx. He was very attuned to international developments.

The thing with the forts was used as a pretext. I'm not sure why the north insisted on keeping these forts. People try to use this to say the south fired the first shot but they were on southern soil and most all of the war was fought in the south. I would say it's really not true to say the south invaded the north just because of these forts.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 10:37 AM
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OH look... Another butt hurt CW loser. Not sure why so many people like you keep insisting the South was repressed or wronged. Only a loser would think that. You blame "those evil Northerners" for all the South’s woes. Obviously, the South didn't work hard enough to improve the situation. The south has more raw materials than the North by far! Why didn't the South work hard on creating a manufacturing base? I'll tell you why- Because ignorance was celebrated and encouraged. And oooooh boy-- is that cancer back fully and metastatic down there. Blaming "outsiders" for the South's unwillingness to pull themselves out of an antiquated economic system is laughable. But wait! Wasn't the South full of God Fearing White Christians who were "self sufficient" and free? You know, the most amazing product of Western Civilization!? Wasn't that the type of society that was supposed to create advancement and progress? Weren’t “those "dumb blacks" and the "unwashed lazy white poor" under control and rightfully put in "their place" so they couldn’t erode the future. The "hardworking" upper classes were in control and the masters of their destiny. So if ANYTHING you believe is true, the South should have won and become the most amazing economic power house of our age. A white Christian bunch of guys is the only way to create a successful society and economy right? Yeah- OK. It sure didn't turn out that way. It took the North dragging the South kicking and screaming for it to even consider entering the 20th century. What started the real scientific/manufacturing infrastructure the South does have now? WW2 and a government agency, that put us on the moon. And what has your society done? It's venerated and romanticized the fantasy of what the South was before the CW. Now days, you only seem to want to think about the past and pleasure yourself to the hundreds of Confederate statues that were erected to help heal your ancestors egos. Come on loser, pull your boot straps up and take responsibility for the South's own failures. Supposedly, that is a tenet of your culture right? Sure the North was more economically powerful. But hey man, that's capitalism. And capitalism is king. Just because your Great-Great-GrandPappy was the 'labor' and not the 'capital' in this situation, doesn't mean that we should feel sorry for you or your ignorant ancestors. The North was/is FAR from perfect.
I love how you say building railroads was somehow a bad thing. Wow… Just wow.
And who was it that beat your Great-Great-GrandPappy? Who was it that had created an economic power house that was able to crush your admittedly fanatical fighting men? A relatively progressive society that had a crap load of (shudder) immigrants! Those “dirty sub-humans” from other countries right!? Oh and it was vastly better educated than the South. You know that evil God Hating Science. That willingness to question the old ways of doing things. Evil stuff I say.
Dude- I’m know I’m being a schmuck here. I’m just tired of having to hear you morons complain about this historical event. It’s long enough ago that you really should just get over it. It’s taken up a HUGE space in your head and society. Look forward to become a healthier person. I have a Great Grandfather who lost a huge family fortune from bad business decisions. Do you see me making excuses for him? Or finding moronic ways to say that it wasn’t his fault? NO. He was an idiot. He lost it all to a more keen businessman. Do I blame him and his ancestors today? NO. And I don’t even really think about it. Why would I? I just bring it up here to show how moronic it is to refight this war constantly. Right or wrong, the victor writes the history. Your Great-Great-GrandPappy lost. I’m sorry. Losing sucks.
I’m at the point where I really don’t care if you all get together and peacefully leave the Union. Go ahead and build your Unfettered Capitalist Christian Dominionist society. Go ahead and put the 10 commandments in your constitution. Don’t put the gays in camps though. We will take them off your hands. We would also like to take the Jews. Both of these folks are high earners and usually great citizens. An awesome tax base indeed. Go ahead and keep teaching your kids the world is 6000 years old. Go ahead and run your society based on a 3000 year old book. Bring back stoning- it will do well on Pay-Per-View. Go ahead and get your women back in the kitchen. Turn her into a walking breeding machine to make sure the “white race is saved!” Go ahead and just let those “lazy poor people” fend for themselves. After all, Jesus will take care of them right? Go ahead and create your utopia. IT WILL BE AWESOME! The true envy of the world.
We are probably all doomed anyways…..



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 10:47 AM
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a reply to: PyrokudaBoomBoom

The truly saddest part of your little screed is that while you seem to think you are speaking for the greater good of the Black people who were enslaved and oppressed, those same Black people were hated far more and treated even worse by the Union army than the southerners. It's impossible to know just how many southerners -- including Blacks -- were tortured, starved, raped, beaten, and burned out of their homes. It's equally impossible to know just how many were outright killed. (In hindsight, perhaps the more merciful fate.)

The warmongers did not have the best interests of Blacks at heart. Not even close. Exactly the opposite.

Just look at the results and where we are now.
edit on 24-8-2018 by Boadicea because: spelling



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: yuppa

Actually I thought it was started by the democrats who wanted to count slaves so they could get more votes in the house because with the slave population the south became more populated than the north. And Abe did not end slavery it still goes on to this day if he wanted to end slavery he would have sent navy and marines to north Africa to shut down slave markets there.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: PyrokudaBoomBoom

The south will rise again!



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Like I said in my first reply to this thread. You can try and twist and form all sorts of facts to try and defend the south. But the war was literally all about slavery. Nothing more.

And judging from you actually believing the term northern aggression you're a little biased and uneducated on the history. Or you're just to stubborn to admit that the confederacy wanted a slave owning white supremacist nation that they would go and colonize the tropics once they got their country going.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: yuppa

Nice try, but everyone with any brains whatsoever knows full well the civil war was only and all about slavery. Its like global warming is settled science as is Darwins theory of evolution.

Quit trying to rewrite history; it doesnt work and it only makes you look foolish.


Deny the proof but that only makes you look stupid. Slavery want the only reason. It boiled down to the norths wanting to control the south and use their wealth to enrich themselves,using tariffs and the like. If you dont like what I posted dont post.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

OH I agree. The CW wasn't much about slavery in the long run.
It was about how incompetent the South was.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: yuppa

Then why did every southern state sign the declaration of secession based off upholding the institution of slavery? And it just so happened it was right after Lincoln won the election... it's not a coincidence.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: strongfp

I would say you are the uneducated if you honestly believe every man and women that fought for the south did so only to defend slavery, there are plenty of people some pretty prominent that spoke out against the institution of slavery.

If the war was literally about nothing other than slavery, why did emancipation not occur till the north was on the razors edge of quitting, why did they not free the slaves right off the bat?

Slavery was the whitewash used to give the north the moral high ground to do anything and everything needed to win the war. If as everyone expected the north had won quickly have you seen any writing, any at all that say Lincoln would free the slaves immediately upon victory?

Not saying they don't exist but I haven't seen them.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:16 AM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Boadicea

Like I said in my first reply to this thread. You can try and twist and form all sorts of facts to try and defend the south. But the war was literally all about slavery. Nothing more.

And judging from you actually believing the term northern aggression you're a little biased and uneducated on the history. Or you're just to stubborn to admit that the confederacy wanted a slave owning white supremacist nation that they would go and colonize the tropics once they got their country going.


Thats like your opinion man. Slavery was on the way out. you obviously didnt read the article. Lincoln was not a nice guy. Under the constitution at the time All of that was LEGAL btw. moral? no! but constitutionally protected? yes it was.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:19 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: yuppa

Who gives a damn about the constitution when it was going to be toyed around and taken lightly by the southern slave owning states. If it was so unconstitutional then why didn't any free states go and fight for the south?

I can't believe I actually see people defending the confederacy.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: Irishhaf

The war wasn't very long and he tried to get the south to cooperate. But they weren't having it.
That's the main issue, the south didn't want to cooperate because they wanted to keep slavery. Then they go and try to rip the union apart, and failed... it's not hard to comprehend what happened.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:24 AM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: yuppa

Who gives a damn about the constitution when it was going to be toyed around and taken lightly by the southern slave owning states. If it was so unconstitutional then why didn't any free states go and fight for the south?

I can't believe I actually see people defending the confederacy.


Why would you go against who has your money? those free states were IN on the Gravy train the northerers were running. the north obviously didnt care about the constitution either to had even had the civil war. I thought you were all for states rights?



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Boadicea

Like I said in my first reply to this thread. You can try and twist and form all sorts of facts to try and defend the south. But the war was literally all about slavery. Nothing more.

And judging from you actually believing the term northern aggression you're a little biased and uneducated on the history. Or you're just to stubborn to admit that the confederacy wanted a slave owning white supremacist nation that they would go and colonize the tropics once they got their country going.


Even if you really believe that you must realize Lincoln did not see blacks as compatible with living in a white society. The whole racist thing falls apart when you look at movements like the American Colonization Society and the founding of Liberia. Lincoln freed the slaves but then he intended to deport them to Central America, Africa, Or the Caribbean. The only thing that prevented this was his assassination.

Abraham Lincoln and slavery
Abraham Lincoln 'wanted to deport slaves' to new colonies
Did Abraham Lincoln plan to send ex-slaves to Central America after the Civil War?



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Boadicea

Like I said in my first reply to this thread. You can try and twist and form all sorts of facts to try and defend the south. But the war was literally all about slavery. Nothing more.


I don't have to twist anything. Nor do I have to ignore the facts staring us all in the face. Nor do I have to choose the lesser of two evils. It is quite possible to call out everyone's bad behavior. It's also the right thing to do. There was absolutely nothing good or noble about slavery. But there was absolutely nothing good about the war waged on the south either.

Both were wrong.


And judging from you actually believing the term northern aggression...


Believing? No. The words mean what they mean... the north did what they did... it's not about belief, it's about truth. Now, you can try to justify and defend the northern aggression all you want. But it is what it is.


... you're a little biased...


Not at all biased. I'm certainly not the one refusing to call out the bad behavior of one side while ignoring their cruel and sadistic treatment of people I'm theoretically defending. Again, you can try to justify the north's bad behavior, you can rationalize it all you want, but it happened.


...and uneducated on the history.


LOL!!! I know the history just fine. I'm just not denying history -- or cherry picking history for cheap political points.


Or you're just to stubborn to admit that the confederacy wanted a slave owning white supremacist nation that they would go and colonize the tropics once they got their country going.


You sure about that? Cause watch this: There were indeed many very rich, very elitist southerners -- mostly plantation owners -- who very much wanted to maintain the system of slavery. There were also others who very much wanted to end the system of slavery, and were actively working to do so. In fact, there were far more abolitionist groups in the south than in the north.

The system of slavery was dying a slow but sure death. There's good reason to believe that slavery would have died out with or without the Civil War. But many historians also believe that the Civil War would have happened regardless, because the TRUE reasons for the Civil War would have existed regardless of slavery.



posted on Aug, 24 2018 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: strongfp

You are obviously having issues with comprehension, and I am not defending the confederacy as much as stating saying it was all about slavery is factually inaccurate.


4 years north, of 1 million total dead in soldiers alone who knows how many died in the south that were civilians, and you want to say it was a short war, please go pick up some more history books and read a bit more on the subject.

Lastly did Lincoln ever write about releasing the slaves before the north was ready to pack it in?

Im off to the gym so it will be a bit before I respond again.




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