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John Edwards verdict the last straw for campaign finance?

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posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 10:31 PM
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www.csmonitor.com...


The jury returned a not guilty verdict on the key charge in the federal campaign corruption trial against Mr. Edwards – that the former Democratic presidential candidate allegedly helped to illegally funnel over $700,000 in hush money from heiress Rachel “Bunny” Mellon. The jury deadlocked on the five other counts against him, and Judge Catherine Eagles declared a mistrial.


Sounds an awful lot like the predicament our current president is in.


More broadly, though, the prosecution's loss – combined with the Supreme Court’s 2010 Citizens United decision, which allowed freer flow of campaign funds in the political system – appears to set a high bar for what constitutes illegal behavior in the realm of campaign funding.

At its core, the case is about whether Edwards, once a rising star in Democratic politics, “willfully” took and concealed the money to protect his presidential campaign. Some legal analysts say the government’s unusual decision to bring criminal charges against Edwards even after the formal civil-elections body, the FEC, failed to come to any conclusions about whether the donations were illegal could have chilled American politics. 


So intent is important. Misusing funds is not enough to make one guilty of campaign finance crime. They have to be willfully seeking to break the law.

Doesnt that make it incredibly easy for Trump to beat the charges... why did his lawyer plead guilty instead of trying to push back?


As it is, his acquittal spoke just as loudly about the role of money in American politics, especially at the presidential level, others said. “If this is a legal precedent, we will rue this day,” the conservative columnist David Frum said, suggesting that the verdict opens the doors wide open to “what people who might be president can do with money that donors give them.”


Is Frum right? Are conservatives rueing the day Ewards paved the way to Trumps defense?


Edwards, a former US senator who was the vice presidential nominee in 2004 and an early favorite for the 2008 presidential nomination, had an option to take a plea bargain instead of going to trial, but only if he would agree to some jail time and forego his law license. He refused. If he had been convicted on all counts, he would have faced as many as 30 years in prison.


And apparently prosecutors tried to get Ewards to plead guilty to a crime they had no hope to convict him on... so that happens.

Why did Cohen buckle so easily?

edit on 22-8-2018 by DanDanDat because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 10:51 PM
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originally posted by: DanDanDat

Why did Cohen buckle so easily?



Not hard to buckle when you are being blackmailed.

🤢



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 11:17 PM
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I think there are numerous questions this case brings up. The rest of the Edwards story, even though he was found innocent was that he lost his standing as a viable liberal candidate. He was finished, the liberals left him in droves. If Trump manages
to avoid legal charges and come out of this unscathed legally, how will be be treated by his base, conservatives? Will they recognize Trump for what he is and give him the same treatment liberals gave to Edwards or will they continue to rally around him.

Is the conservative community so insecure in it's self, so fearful that their principles will not stand on their own merit that they will continue to support this guy or will they drop him and stand on their own.



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 11:23 PM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

You explain liberals perfectly in that particular sense. Once that drive is over, they'll jump ship, nada mas.

Technically, the same can be said about conservative bases, but by that same token, I feel that if they are passionate enough, in this case they are, they will continue to support him.
One thing conservatives recognize is imperfection, we're not all perfect, its the intent that matters to the overall good of the people and nation.

Trump resonates with people on this, an so it is in my opinion that the base will continue to support him.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 12:09 AM
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a reply to: Arnie123

You thoughtfully bring together two good points, the conservative passion and the realization of imperfection.
I for one, and I knew many others, was passionate about Edwards. He did represent to me what I was passionate about, One was his social and economic outlook, the political scope of his platforms etc. That to me was interwoven with being a truth-teller. When he proved to not be a man who told the truth, to not be a man I could trust, there was in my mind no reason to pay attention to him any longer. He really was just a pretty face with an expensive hair cut and a line of gab.

And that brings up your second point, the recognition of imperfection. i get that, the lefts continual ability to see their leaders through rose colored glasses and no, we do not need to recite the list. liberals do have a way of fancy dreaming that can make it hard to realize the tarnish or imperfection of their political leaders.

However, recognizing imperfection, though essential as it is, can only go so far. How 'imperfect' is acceptable to that conservative base that they would continue to support such a deep dive into that imperfection.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 12:58 AM
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Stakes are higher here you got a sitting President instead of the top candidate. This more like the hail mary to get Clinton impeached, when the right was up against a popular president and though they tried to tag many things on Slick Willy this was their last gasp. Almost the same here its to get something to stick to the teflon Donald who so far has dodged any thing of significance. Its the game both parties play because most stick their hands in their election campaign funds and some ends up in their pockets or somewhere else that is quasi unethical or downright criminal. Even though they would love to go through impeachment proceedings with all publicity and bluster that would bring. It might be enough to somewhat derail Republican momentum in November and stain an attempt at a 2nd term.

Its just the games both parties play in a bid to stay in office, be fed lobbyists kickbacks and steamroll other bills that they make their money on and not really accomplish anything, and most of the public continue to believe in the 2 party system. The problem is how desperate the left seems, and what ridiculous levels they will go, regardless the effect it has on the country. We have become too partisan, and dont use good common sense on both sides.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 01:03 AM
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WOW...Hillary's Campaign pollster says that HILLARY CLINTON violated Campaign Finance rules..BIG TIME.

www.lifezette.com...



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 01:22 AM
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It's quite different when Edwards was spending money that people contributed to his campaign.

Trump was spending his own money, not "borrowing a campaign contribution".



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 02:16 AM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Liberals left him in droves because they are addicted to fake outrage. It makes them feel superior. And since they got their pansy asses kicked growing up they need to feel superior. Conservatives will continue to back trump as long as he keeps giving them the results they want. That’s why they voted for him. Results. They don’t care what he did with his penis as long as he’s not harming anyone.
You would be hard pressed to find a conservative that thinks trump is a nice guy.
But they don’t care about nice.
They want to kick some ass.
And trump is the man to do it



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 03:06 AM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

In Edwards case the accusation was he used campaign money.

In Trumps case he used his own finances and not campaign finances.

The charges Cohen plead to, specifically the FEC violation (#8 on the indictment list) would never have held up in court. By forcing it down Cohens throat Democrats / anti-Trumpers it allowed them to push their newest talking point - That Trump is an unindicted co-conspirator and illegitimate. They are also using it to block the Senate confirmation on Kavanaugh.

Also if paying money to women so they keep their mouth shut is a campaign finance violation then what do we do with all those members of Congress who were using the slush fund to pay their victims to keep quiet?


edit on 23-8-2018 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 04:59 AM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

The support of trump is purely a middle fimger to the political establishment. He isnt worshipped or loved. Hes a hammer his voters are using to swat federal flies



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 05:29 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Thank you! The Texan gets it!!



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 06:00 AM
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originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
I think there are numerous questions this case brings up. The rest of the Edwards story, even though he was found innocent was that he lost his standing as a viable liberal candidate. He was finished, the liberals left him in droves. If Trump manages
to avoid legal charges and come out of this unscathed legally, how will be be treated by his base, conservatives? Will they recognize Trump for what he is and give him the same treatment liberals gave to Edwards or will they continue to rally around him.

Is the conservative community so insecure in it's self, so fearful that their principles will not stand on their own merit that they will continue to support this guy or will they drop him and stand on their own.


Trump has something that Edwards did not.

Trumps opposition has turned him in to a symbol more than just a man. They have painted him into "Conservativism" itself.... all be it "Everything wrong with conservativism" from their prospective.

Letting Trump twist in the wind isnt something his base can do with out admitting there are fundamental issues with their core beliefs... essentially in the eyes of there enemies the "Liberals".

Trumps base will not so easly give that win to the opostion and will defend Trump for a lot longer then they would most people if not for ever no mater what he does. It's ironic how much power Trumps opposition gives him though their constant over the top attacks and reactions they have to even the smallest issues... I'd even argue that had they not gone all in so early with the "basket of deplorables" stuff Trump would likely be in a lot worse shape today ... if he became president at all.

So to your question it will take a lot more than being "found innocent" of campaign finance crime to bring Trump down. 6 months ago I might have thought real proof of Russian collusion might do the trick ... but now in not so sure even that would be enough.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 07:12 AM
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originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: DanDanDat

Why did Cohen buckle so easily?



Not hard to buckle when you are being blackmailed.

🤢


He buckled because his lawyer is also a known scumbag and Clinton lackey, Lanny Davis. Davis had zero interest in helping Cohen as his client, and to show that one only needs to look at the fact that Davis allowed Cohen to plead to something that isnt even a crime (the campaign finance charge).........great lawyering Lanny, you pos.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 07:28 AM
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Problem is Trump self funded a large part of his run.

Big difference.

Paying off women is nothing new for the rich and shameless.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 08:04 AM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

Trump came out this morning and said that campaign money wasn't used to pay off anyone. We have to remember that Trump used mostly his own money during his campaign anyway.

As for Cohen, I'm sure that he was convinced that his tax fraud and bank fraud alone would throw him in prison longer than agreeing to plead guilty to an offense that didn't really happen.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 08:08 AM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

All I can say is, that if Edwards did what he was accused of, then whether he was found guilty or not is immaterial. Whether legally liable, he is still factually responsible for his actions and their every effect, and should be shunned. There is no question that he cannot be trusted to perform the roles that public office would necessitate he become accustomed to, if he cannot follow campaign finance law.

If a person shoots another person dead in cold blood, but a jury find him innocent, he is guilty of the crime regardless.

The law needs to be more perfect, if it cannot find people who have erred guilty as it should. In this case, Mr Edwards has made either a serious error in judgement or a deliberate effort to bend the rules, and stepping outside the lines should be as deadly dangerous for those in positions of power and high status, as for anyone else. I am certain that anyone else misappropriating hundreds of thousands of dollars, no matter how noble they might be in other respects, would be in shackles for a considerable time to come. So it must be for the powerful, no matter what banner they stand beneath.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 08:09 AM
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a reply to: annoyedpharmacist


He buckled because his lawyer is also a known scumbag and Clinton lackey, Lanny Davis. Davis had zero interest in helping Cohen as his client, and to show that one only needs to look at the fact that Davis allowed Cohen to plead to something that isnt even a crime (the campaign finance charge).........great lawyering Lanny, you pos.


That's the truth and the bottom line.

I heard that Lanny Davis came out on television yesterday asking people to donate money to Cohen and to visit a website they set up at "www.michaelcohentruth.com"? Anyway, it looks like someone has redirected the traffic from the site to Trump's website. LOL!

Watch and listen to everyone laugh at Lanny Davis on this announcement around the 7:40 mark...

www.youtube.com...


edit on 23-8-2018 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 08:28 AM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

I dont know why this thread didnt get more attention. Maybe cuz there is nothing left to debate. I forgot about Edwards, but yes, it's similar, and no law was broken. I mean even if trump used donations, the fact still remains that Cohen did all the dirty work. I will read it later but I doubt I will find anything about "conspiring" to misuse campaign funds to begin in the laws.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 09:41 AM
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It's on record Cohen used a home equity line.

So what's Trump guilty of?



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