Question about Jesus Christ and Heaven

a reply to: watchandwait410

When we die, we have choice to go into the light and stare in the face of God or turn away. Many people feel they are not worthy to face God and turn away. For people who go into the light staring into the face of God and experiencing God's infinite beauty is the greatest possible experience consciousness can have. Time ceases to exist because experiencing God's infinite beauty is a all encompassing heavenly bliss. You do not have any desires to look away.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Very interesting statement.
I had an experience at a very bad time in my life, I found myself in a body exactly like my own but it felt somehow distant even numb and as if I was feeling it through some kind of barrier.
I was standing in a dark place, not black but darker than twilight, still I could see and there in a clearing in the dark mist was a ladder, it was strange and seemed to be made of one piece of wood with the resemblance of two tree trunk's for staves and the rungs were not fitted but of one piece like branches, the wood had no bark and was silvery grey with fine cracks along the grain and the rung's were about two feet apart.

Looking up it seemed to have no end just continued into a very distant brightening in the dark sky far, far above.

I was desperate as I had been experiencing vision's first hand from someone I took to be a female somewhere whom was either being or had been murdered after being held captive, I think the latter as I saw a white farm house as I was floating away from it about 18' off the ground so possibly a spirit's post mortam memory's of a traumatic death at the hand's of her abductor, this was way back in the early 90's and I had not experienced anything like these terrifying vision's and waking dream's before and not something I would really want to go into as they were extremely traumatic and unpleasant especially for a young man to have to experience.

But back to the point of subject, I looked up and just wanted, was desperate to gain help for whomever this was so I saw this ladder with no idea how I had gotten there and walked to it then started to climb, the wood felt cold and almost like rock or metal, you could place your hand's on top of the rungs but they were too large to wrap your hand's around, I felt like it was going to be impossible to climb that far but in that place and that state of mind I decided without thought or reason to do so and climbed.

To my surprise as I reached the THIRD rung of the ladder something seemed to grab me by the back of my collar and lift me up to what I assume was the top of the ladder, it was lighter there than the bottom but not blindingly so yet I felt in faith the Lord must be there so dared not look up and simply asked - please lord look after her - without any idea of whom this her actually was then unable to feel the overwhelming sense of shame as if all the world's flaws and not only mine were my fault, a burden no mere man could ever withstand I stood backward and down ONE rung before snapping out of the vision, the last thing I saw was another guy, dark haired, pale skinned and side on kneeling head down, I felt a great weight lift as if my request had been granted and then as suddenly as it was lifted I felt as if it had been placed back on me so wonder if perhaps this other person was an accuser, adversary or simply cruel.

SO while I can to a great degree see your point and maybe even believe that for some it is like that I do however believe God is far more complicated than that, I also don't actually now believe it was the lord I was before even though I dared not look up since the Lord has his own mind and does not need accusers or adversary's to challenge requests of the faithful, only a God with no mind of his own would.

a reply to: Wookiep

You can find the other 3 parts on your own if interested.

Regarding the OP, often the Greek verb that has been translated to "believe" in the bible in relation to Jesus, is the antonym of the Greek word for "disobeying", so a more accurate rendering to remind people of that could be: "exercising faith". For example, John 3:36 (NW):

The one who exercises faith (Greek: πιστεύων ;transliteration: pisteuōn) in the Son has everlasting life; the one who disobeys [Greek: ἀπειθῶν ;transliteration: apeithōn] the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.

The transliteration I copy-pasted from the biblehub website, the Greek is from the Kingdom Interlinear. Notice how many translations will translate apeithōn as "disobeys" or "not obeying":

John 3:36 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub)
John 3:36 parallel translations (biblehub)

In the "Concordance entries" section (first link, click "apeithōn", click various entries on the right) you can also see how grammatical variations of the word "apeithōn" are rendered as "disobedient", "being disobedient", "obey not", etc. by the KJV in other verses in the bible, yet at John 3:36 and other places they render it as "believeth not".

Obedience: Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2

In the Hebrew Scriptures the thought of obedience is expressed by sha·maʽʹ, meaning, basically, “hear or listen.” Thus, at times sha·maʽʹ refers to simple hearing, becoming aware of something through the auditory senses. (Ge 3:10; 21:26; 34:5) But when what is spoken expresses will, desire, instruction, or command, then the sense of the Hebrew term is that of paying heed to or obeying the one speaking.
...
Similar to sha·maʽʹ, one Greek verb expressing the idea of obeying (hy·pa·kouʹo; noun form hy·pa·ko·eʹ) literally means “hear under,” that is, to hear submissively or to attend (as at Ac 12:13). Another term conveying the sense of obedience is peiʹtho, which means “persuade.” (Mt 27:20) In the passive and middle voices it means not only to be persuaded (Lu 16:31), to trust (Mt 27:43), to believe (Ac 17:4) but also to give heed (Ac 5:40), to obey (Ac 5:36, 37). From this term comes the negative form a·pei·theʹo (meaning to disbelieve [Ac 14:2; 19:9] or disobey [Joh 3:36]), as well as other related terms.

From this it can be seen that obedience, as expressed in the original languages of the Scriptures, depends first upon hearing, that is, receiving information or knowledge (compare Lu 12:47, 48; 1Ti 1:13), and then upon one’s submitting to the will or desire of the one who speaks or otherwise expresses such will or desire. Submission, in turn, is dependent upon recognition of that one’s authority or right to ask or require the response indicated, as also upon the hearer’s desire or willingness to satisfy the will of such one. As indicated by the Greek peiʹtho and a·pei·theʹo, belief, trust, and confidence also enter in.

Note that the earlier transliterations I used were from the biblehub website, they use a slightly different style for transliterations, the bolded parts are talking about the same Greek words as I was talking about earlier in relation to John 3:36. This man says something about it as well at 6:12:

originally posted by: watchandwait410
Wow, making a thread kind of sucks.

I feel ya.

Babylon the Great has been working overtime conditioning people how to speak to one another (and how to feel about themselves in the process in comparison to how they feel about the one they are responding to, especially on the internet):

“Men Will Be Lovers of Themselves”

Regarding the question in your OP, I recommend the video (plus the other 3 parts, especially part 2) in my previous comment to clear up at least one of the following myths first (the last one; it helps to be familiar with the first 2):

Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal
Myth 2: The Wicked Suffer in Hell
Myth 3: All Good People Go to Heaven

Additional information:
Chapter 2: “The Way and the Truth and the Life”

...
As we saw in Chapter 1, Jesus invites us, saying: “Come be my follower.” (Mark 10:21) However, he also gives us compelling reason to accept that invitation. On one occasion, Jesus said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) Let us discuss some reasons why approach to the Father is possible only through the Son. Then with those reasons in mind, we will consider how Jesus is, indeed, “the way and the truth and the life.”

Also have a look at John 3:36 quoted in my previous comment, it doesn't say "The one who exercises faith in the Son will go to heaven", it says "The one who exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life". That's not necessarily the same thing (going to heaven and receiving everlasting life as a spirit being is compatible however; but as to not get confused here I highly recommend watching the videos about "born again" first, or the link regarding myth 3 that I just linked).

Sha-Ma is misinterpreted. Do not think it is hidden
It is instead obvious. Its pronounced "Se-AhMa"
It means in English He/She Is Loved. How much love. Enough to make heaven and Earth bow to God.
This love is sacrifice. Death Before Dishonor. A Soldiers death. Gangsters are God's special little creatures. Before he can possess them with whole heartedness. He must test the heart wholly. To give up your life. The greatest commandment. Se Ama!
She is loved!

STOP THE LIES!
Be Free Men Again!
Love Thee A Woman... She Is Treasure.
Before You Rise.... Be Mindful Of The Saying:
Father (Master), Son (Apprentice), Holy Spirit (Craft).... Through The Son All Things Are Made Anew. To The Father Through Jesus (Bread & Wine).
Body And Blood To The Death.

originally posted by: watchandwait410
Wow, making a thread kind of sucks.

No... It's all good... Just remember we got all kinds of members, of all faiths and beliefs here. Got doctors, students, lawyers, poets, painters, police, store owners, marketers, Atheists, spiritualists, fire fighters, authors, ice cream vendors, computer programmers, prophets and projectors... You name it!

300,000 members here and growing... so you're bound to get answer-arrows shot at you worldwide with some subjects, countries and languages. It's normal!

So, don't stop posting, questioning and replying. We need us all to make this place what it is! *

Best...

*Heaven can be had by all who believe... No matter their faith... And THAT is MY belief!

a reply to: Blue Shift

Was he always the same person?

I think two persons! Barabbas is perhaps the key to unravel the Gospels. Barnabus in aramaic means "son of the father". Hard to sell a roman protester (Standards Ensigns Incident ) to a roman audience so that side of his life had to be hidden under an alter ego. But it does explain why Gospel of Thomas says...

Jesus said, "Men think, perhaps, that it is peace which I have come to cast upon the world. They do not know that it is dissension which I have come to cast upon the earth: fire, sword, and war. For there will be five in a house: three will be against two, and two against three, the father against the son, and the son against the father. And they will stand solitary."

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Blue Shift

Was he always the same person?

I think two persons! Barabbas is perhaps the key to unravel the Gospels. Barnabus in aramaic means "son of the father".

Christ is not a person.............Christ is the image of God.............this ever present image that is appearing (to you).
The Father (also not a person) is the ever present witness of the ever present image.

This is IT................there is no other.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I am talking about Jesus the man. You are talking his spiritual image. Genesis says we are all made in Gods image.

originally posted by: watchandwait410
Hi
I was just wondering if you need to believe in Jesus to get to heaven.
Some people say no and some people say yes.
I am confused.
I am not trying to be an ass or anything, I just want a straight answer.

Short answer, yes you do, but heaven is not our final destination, it is in fact the new earth. This is also the final destination of Jesus and the Father, so I'm not too concerned about heaven anyway.

a reply to: Dcopymope

I would not say the Final destination For the father but certainly it is a place promised to the saved, a new heaven and a new earth because the old one's will have passed away, that is both the current heaven and the current earth.
Probably why so many of the principality's and powers, those in high places are enemy's of Christianity since they know they are damned to loose it all for there rebellion.
Also the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are the only truly eternal being's to exist, heaven and earth shall pass away but not the least of these word's shall pass away.
Another way of looking at it from a literal interpretation is this universe shall pass away but since God transcend's this entirely he will create a new heaven and a new earth and of course all thing's saved by him are also made transcendent through him, all thing's are made new.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Itisnowagain

I am talking about Jesus the man. You are talking his spiritual image. Genesis says we are all made in Gods image.

Jesus The man was actually SPIRIT manifest as flesh - true God from true God, true light from true light of one substance with the father.

God is a spirit and since Jesus body came from God it also had to be spirit, he has the power to lay down his life and to take it back up again.

When he ascended with cloud's, well many have seen spirit's appearing as mist, when he walked among us as incarnate, well many have seen solid, real people miles away from were they really were but at the same or just before/after they actually died as in the case of a soldier who died on a battle field and was seen, solid and real as you or me walking to his house, his mother heard a knock at the door but when she opened it there was no one there and it was only after when her neighbor mentioned her son being on leave and home that she found out about him being seen, the same day she received the telegram informing her of his death, that is an ordinary soul, Jesus is soul of God himself.

When he made the sacrament, the bread and the wine into his flesh and blood it was literal, he imbues them with his spirit through the holy spirit when they are sanctified and more importantly when they are taken in faith.


Jesus the MAN is actually Jesus Son of God, one with the Father and God incarnate but in more precise term's he is spirit OF God drawn from the very spirit of God the father and manifest as a man among us, Emanuel - god incarnate but that incarnation was not of any mere mortal nature, his body was from his mother and from God and God is a Spirit - the Primal spirit - the creator not an illusion of belief but reality beyond belief.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Blue Shift

Was he always the same person?

I think two persons! Barabbas is perhaps the key to unravel the Gospels. Barnabus in aramaic means "son of the father".

Christ is not a person...
The Father (also not a person) is the ever present witness of the ever present image.

Is God a Real Person?

Common answers:

▪ “He is everywhere, in everything. He is like the wind.”

▪ “He is an indefinable intelligence, an abstract force.”

...
It is true that “no man has seen God at any time” and that “God is a Spirit.” (John 1:18; 4:24) But this does not mean that he is without any type of body or form. The Bible tells us: “If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.” (1 Corinthians 15:44) So does Jehovah have a spiritual body?

Yes. When Jesus was resurrected, he “entered . . . into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us.” (Hebrews 9:24) This teaches us two important facts about God. First, he has a place of dwelling. Second, he is a Person, not simply an indefinable force that resides everywhere.

How, then, can God’s influence be felt everywhere? God can send his holy spirit, or power in action, to any place in the universe. Like a father who extends his hand to console and support his children, God extends his holy spirit to accomplish his purpose.​—Psalm 104:30; 139:7.

Because God is a Person, he also has a personality with likes and dislikes​—even feelings. The Bible tells us that he loves his people, rejoices in his works, hates idolatry, and feels hurt over wickedness. (Genesis 6:6; Deuteronomy 16:22; 1 Kings 10:9; Psalm 104:31) At 1 Timothy 1:11, he is called “the happy God.” No wonder Jesus said that we can learn to love this God with our whole heart!​—Mark 12:30.

Regarding the notion that “God is an indefinable intelligence, an abstract force.”

What did Jesus say?

JESUS never referred to God as some abstract force. On the contrary, he talked to God and prayed to him. He often called Jehovah his heavenly Father, a term revealing his deep intimacy with God.​—John 8:19, 38, 54.

▪ “In the house of my Father there are many abodes.” (John 14:2) Jesus spoke of God as having a figurative house, or dwelling place.

▪ “I came out from the Father and have come into the world. Further, I am leaving the world and am going my way to the Father.” (John 16:28) Jesus believed that God is an actual Person living in a specific location.

Which should clear up whether or not:

“He is everywhere, in everything. He is like the wind.” (He = God)

originally posted by: whereislogic
“He is everywhere, in everything. He is like the wind.” (He = God)

It is the wind that makes the trees and grass move.
God is that which makes apparent things move................yet there is a belief in individual volition.

The field is the sole governing agency of the particle. Einstein.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Before we can say Jesus is God we need to define God. Even the most intelligent minds today cannot even define Gods creation much less the Creator. We all just use the term as a label that we give certain attributes. So when books say "Son of God" it is representing God and Jesus in a format that can be easily digested by all people. But that relationship is not literal. Because God is not a man that has sons and daughters in the sense that our physical bodies has sons and daughters. God is much greater than our limited minds can ever imagine.

Genesis and Hinduism agree that the spiritual aspect (Adam) of man and woman has been made in Gods image. That our soul is part of the great soul of God. That when Jesus said "The Father and I is one" he had broken through all barriers to be born again as the great soul.

Your Christianity and my Buddhism doesn't go into that relationship in depth because its out of scope of our religions.

But that relationship in Christianity might be hinted by Barabbas. Hidden in parable....

In Matthew Barabbas is actually called "Jesus Barabbas". So we have a man guilty of sin with the name "Jesus Son of the Father" (Barabbas - /bəˈræbəs/; Aramaic: ישוע בר אבא‎ Bar ʾAbbaʾ, literally "son of the father") next to Jesus the spiritual God. The public does not want to free the spiritual God. They instead want to free Barabbas, that represents sin.

Unless we turn our back on ego-sin, none of us will free the spiritual God. This is what all religions teach us. Everything else is immaterial.

a reply to: glend

Well I shall not try to define God except that for me a Christian he is Good, also since I see Jesus as God among us and the way who said “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies".

And he also said that in the resurrection there is no marriage for people shall be like the angels in heaven, as a Buddhist you seek to break the cycle, to be free of the wheel of dharma which you may or may not regard as another interpretation of the wheels of the chariot which Ezekiel beheld or indeed the ladder which Jacob beheld with angels ascending (from the earth) and descending (to the earth) between heaven and earth.

Jesus represent's a complete breaking of any such cycle, God is the god of the living not of the dead, he is still the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob so indeed they are not dead in him or in his presence and neither is anyone that dies in Christ.

Buddhism which as you know originated from Hinduism as indeed may also Zoroastrianism which viewed the Hindu deva's as mere demon's and held only to the primal God and regarded evil as mostly originating from an being a creation which had rebelled but was originally meant to be good called the adversary or the bad one - its name for the devil.
authenticgathazoroastrianism.org...

Now My personal belief is that the soul is the breath of life from God, the earthly body except in exceptional circumstances must return to the dust of the earth from which it came but the soul - the true self is really NOT of the earth but from this higher existence.

And I do not personally ascribe to the belief in reincarnation but there are some very strong story's to suggest that at least for some it is a genuine phenomena and indeed many early christian's later regarded as heretic's rather than simply being in error by those whom hijacked the religion for there political use these reincarnation believers among the christian's were mostly wiped out in very anti christian purges which occurred many century's after the time of Christs incarnation.
reluctant-messenger.com...

So for me while I do not ascribe to this idea of purification over many lifetime's I also DO see parallel's between the concept of Karma and the concept of generational debt held in ancient Judaism however Christ wipes that debt out.
He took the sin's of the world onto himself and suffered in our place.

Now you may also be aware of the story of a Buddhist monk mummy which was found in a sealed cave in a valley in western China were the local population had a story about a monk whom had saved them from cataclysm, there valley was dying, the crops failing and a drought had stopped there river from flowing but one day a monk came and seeing the suffering of the people he prayed and meditated and it started to rain, the monk instructed the villagers to seal up the cave in which he was praying and meditating and when his body was found many years later still holding his prayer bead's, still in a lotus position the Chinese were going to send his body to an institute in Beijing but when they moved his body out of the cave thing's started to go badly wrong in the valley, the local population demanded there monk back and so his body was placed back and the cave was sealed, the valley returned to normal, there belief being that this monk whose Karma was good had taken upon himself the bad karma of the valley.
Which while may not be the same as the crucifixion may be an indicator that on a much smaller scale it can be done and indeed Christ did it for the whole world, or at least for those that believe in him.
Though his concern is the soul, this world he can fix but that is not what he came for but to save the lost sheep.


Look I am no doctor in the law, My word's are merely my thought's which are often all over the place and would probably only serve to confuse others.
So I have to say this.

I know that in many way's and more than I know myself I have erred in this life.
So the Jesus prayer held to be one of the most important.

Lord Jesus Son Of God Have Mercy On Me A Sinner AMEN.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Its said that the Buddha remained silent when questioned what comes after the breaking the cycle. My feeling is the reason he remained silent is that we see ourselves as our ego-brain. But when we die that ego-brain exists no longer. What survives is our incredibly subtle soul that is content with being, rather than seeking. So reincarnation doesn't mean that the 'I' we conceive will reincarnate. That dies when our body dies. The observer or witness within however, for what its worth, rolls on.

I don't think karma and sin are the same. Karma is more a predisposition to engage in acts that were left unresolved in our previous existence so its more akin to cause and effect, good or bad. If we are predisposed with sex this life then we will be attracted to a life in which those issues will play out again, giving us a chance to resolve them.

Buddhism which as you know originated from Hinduism as indeed may also Zoroastrianism which viewed the Hindu deva's as mere demon's and held only to the primal God and regarded evil as mostly originating from an being a creation which had rebelled but was originally meant to be good called the adversary or the bad one - its name for the devil.

In Hinduism, all of existence is Brahman so all other deities are abstract forces of Brahman. Brahma the creator, Shiva as Destroyer etc.

Though his concern is the soul, this world he can fix but that is not what he came for but to save the lost sheep.

In Judiasm (Kaballah) its said that each one of us remains enlightened in the timeless void of God. That these worlds and others have been created so we can experience that enlightenment in our sensations. So these worlds arn't a fall from grace but a means to learn and grow. Genesis being the blueprint of that reality, today.

originally posted by: watchandwait410
Hi
I was just wondering if you need to believe in Jesus to get to heaven.
Some people say no and some people say yes.
I am confused.
I am not trying to be an ass or anything, I just want a straight answer.

Religion or spiritual practices may be helpful to you in life.

What a Phd biblical historian has to say is that it's mythology:

www.richardcarrier.info...

Carrier debates many scholars online so you can do your own research. He has a good debate with biblical scholar Trent Horn and many others.

originally posted by: watchandwait410
I have been to nderf.org and mostly enjoy it, but once in a while there is a hell NDE and completely freaks me out. It is like 1 in every 100 so that means I have a 100 to 1 chance of going to hell and that small percentage messes with me. The hell NDE's seem like good people to. So I don't get why they experience getting ripped apart limb by limb while they are calling God's name, for example.

Be extreme cautious when you read people narrative about hell. Hell is the home of Satan. Everything you see in hell may not 100% true.

Human are not meant to dwell in hell.

It's a place for ancient gods, demi gods, false prophets, evil spirits, nephilim, giants, beast and many other spirit creatures of past, present and future. A lot of this creatures can deceive your eyes.