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Why is it racist for the US to defend its border?

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posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 02:11 AM
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There is a belief by globalists and economists that having borders is bad. Things should be allowed to equalize otherwise pressure builds up. If you have one city which is rapidly growing, has a shortage of workers and high salaries, while another city has high unemployment, low wages and a stagnant economy then it only seems fair to allow workers from the poor city to move to the wealthy city.

This extends up to countries; the USA and South America. Religious groups in the USA were in favour of open borders and illegal immigration because many of the refugees were fleeing the covert wars against Communism back in the 1980's. Since they were women and children, there was little objection. But then the various cartel gang members started coming across the border, either to escape justice in their home countries or other gangs, or even to extend the reach of their own gang.

On top of all that, you then also have illegal immigrants with no ID or car insurance driving around when drunk and killing/maiming family parents ,or they get involved in gun crime. Either they get caught or flee the USA. But either way a family gets stuck with million dollar medical bills for brain injuries, paralysis and loss of limbs.

So what's the solution? Ban guns, ban cars or ban people staying in the USA illegally?




posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 02:24 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I reckon one would have to have a head injury to think protecting a country's border is racist...



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 02:43 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Why is it racist for the US to defend its border? - because there are those out there who want a world geography without borders.

A global economy is an economy with out borders. What follows an economy without borders ??



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 04:01 AM
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I think the racist part is assuming that all Hispanics or immigrants are criminals, and treating them all like criminals even when many of them are not. It is also racist to want to keep out people who might have a different culture just for that reason. When these kinds of emotions are the motivation for building a wall or enhancing border security, hopefully, you can see why that is racist.

If someone is willing to walk with a clear head into the issue of border security, they would probably figure out some sort of legal way to allow the illegal immigrants to come to the United States and work in the fields and do the manual labor they do best. That would allow them to be properly vetted and everything.

But many people interested in "border security" aren't actually interested in protecting us from criminals as a primary concern; instead, they are interested in keeping other cultures out, even the hard-working, honorable members of that culture. Some spread false facts about these immigrants or even demonize them in irrational ways. Many people eat up these emotional and irrational facts and stories and might not even be aware that they are becoming more and more removed from the reality of the situation.

edit on 23amThu, 23 Aug 2018 04:02:53 -0500kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 05:24 AM
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Wow, thanks for all the interesting replies, it has been a fascinating read seeing the perspective from US members.
I made the comparison in the OP with how the UK is so strict on immigration with very little criticism from the rest of the world, aside from France of course which wants us to take the migrants camped on their northern shore while they refuse to register there.

It is slightly different here though due to EU membership. Right now we have over a million migrant workers from Eastern Europe who do all the crappy jobs which Brits won't do. They are all here legally of course, and we need them for the same reasons the US needs unskilled workers to fill employment gaps, farm work, factory work etc.
What will change (if) when then Britain leaves the EU is how these workers continue to come here legally. There is talk of a simple visa scheme where Britain takes workers to fill our gaps, just employers would need to prove they cannot hire locally, but then we enter the 'racist' domain with issues about which countries we allow workers from.

At present the system is racist or certainly nationalist because only European workers get the right to work here. Post Brexit, under a visa scheme I would imagine this visa system would have to be offered to non-EU nationals as well or it would seem disciminatory.
I have no problem with that because we need these workers, so if it was offered to everyone who can speak English, be they from India, Australia, or Latvia then a fair system of immigration can continue.

Our regime is much more intrusive for workers than anything I imagine a US president could get away with. To work here you must have ID and proof of your right to remain in the UK. Employers are prosecuted if they don't verify this information (unlimited fines), same for landlords renting accomodation out.
Social Security numbers are difficult to obtain, and any discrepancy with names etc are quickly picked up on the database prompting investigation by the border force who quickly arrest and deport those caught.
Gone are the days of clerical records where you could rent the SS number off someone in prison and claim to be them.

That said, it seems the general consensus is that controlling the people who enter a country is sensible and not 'racist' but an essential part of running a nation.
We will always have some illegal immigrants working in the UK but it is a very tough climate and people get busted and kicked out regularly. Only recently a car wash place and a Chinese restaurant got busted in my area, everyone suspected they were illegal, and I guess someone grassed to the authorities so they swooped with van loads of officers and arrested lots of workers.

Same as the US, our biggest problem is people over-staying their holiday visa, not actually sneaking into the country, but the only work they can get is blackmarket, cash, and under the minimum wage so it is not a welcoming environment. Illegals can't get driving licences, cannot access healthcare (unless emergency of course), can't rent property, and certainly can't get arrested for something as Border force will be informed and they get kicked out.

It shocks me that illegals in the US can get driving licences in some states because even applying for one here would result in your front door being kicked in.
That said though, if the immigration policy is consistent to all then it is not racist. I'm a white Brit for example, and I assume that if I overstayed and worked illegally in the US I'd be kicked out if caught by authorities, rightly so.
If that is the case then it is not racist and I support the US being as tough on illegals as the UK is.

Again, thanks for all the interesting replies, this was just a thread so I could learn more, and also try to show you guys that the UK is tougher on immigration yet nobody complains that we are racist xenophobes, just a sensible nation desperately trying to keep our numbers of folk at a manageable level - sensible policy as far as I see for any nation.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 05:54 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

An interesting thread and an interesting take on things mate.



The UK is a fortress compared to you, and most people don't care.


Yet for many UK border control isn't tight enough and far, far too many illegal immigrants gain entry to the UK.
Don't know if you've ever been through Calais in a truck, there's just a swarm of people trying to illegally gain entry into the UK.

Official figures estimate around 500,000 illegal immigrants in the UK - my gut feeling is that there's quite a few more but in the absence of supportive evidence we'll have to accept that figure - or around 0.75% of the total UK population.
A surprisingly low figure.

The last thing anyone could describe me as is racist - though some people try to - but I'm of the opinion that border controls should be tightened along with the criteria for allowing legal immigrants in. (My reasoning for this is better suited to another thread).

As of 2015 it was estimated that there were approximately 11million illegal immigrants in the USA, or around 3.4% of the population.
Trends suggest that numbers are falling, but there is still a massive disparity between the UK and US.

Is it any wonder that so many Americans want to see increased border controls?

I can't see why it would be such an issue building 'the wall' - but I would question its effectiveness, many illegal immigrants cross the border via tunnels and over stay visa's etc.

I have no idea why it's labelled 'racist' to want tighter controls unless those controls were based solely on racial genealogy.

And of course we can't forget the influence of the PC Brigade and their offspring Generation Snowflake!



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 06:04 AM
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The border issue has been around FOREVER. It's a political tool for both parties. Use small bits here and there to whip up their bases. It's like the abortion issue. It's not going to change but keep it front and center to give their parties rapping about non issues and cementing support. No one REALLY cares that more farm workers are going north. Not in the abstract.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 06:11 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn
I didn't think of the PC brigade and Generation Snowflake doh! They are the ones who would take down the fences at Calais and let everyone in, as ridiculous as that would seem to any rational person.
The UK has to be stricter than other EU nations because most people speak English as a second language, not German or French. If we didn't have the border controls on the French side they would all be over here because France would just wave them through.

500,000 seems a lot to me still, where are they all working illegally? Say companies employ 50 illegals per site then that would need 10,000 places of employment for all those illegal immigrants. If they were stealing all the farm work or whatever I imagine the legal migrant workers from Romania etc would quickly have something to say about that.

Either way, as you say, our figures are low compared to the US, and nobody seems to call the UK a racist xenophobic nation for trying to control the numbers.
As a human being, I wouldn't grass someone up if I suspected they were working here illegally, but I won't shed any tears if they get caught. It is a cat n mouse game and I support the cat at the end of the day, but I won't point the mice out to the cat...let it work for its dinner.

If anything I just wanted to share the UK experience so the position of the US can be given some perspective. Other countries are following suit as well, check out the border fences and troops Hungary is now using to keep people out.
The strange thing is that when the US does the same they get called xenophobes and racist, maybe its just their left wing voices are louder than ours are here in Britain?


edit on 23-8-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: typo



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 07:08 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Short answer ...

Because the democrat leaders, who were for border control a few years ago, now say it is.

I don't know how it can be stated much simpler than that.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 07:39 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Theyd be OK with the wall if it was white males crossing illegally.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 08:07 AM
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a reply to: JDmOKI

Exactly who is "they"?

Breaking-in, residing, overstating a visa etc. etc.

According to all laws of the United States, illegally entering or remaining without legal status within the United States is still illegal by any means.

Regardless of skin color, a trangressor of United States immigrant law, is illegal period.

When one can prove laws in the afore mentioned; are being applied based on race under due process, please provide the previlance.

Mg



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 08:17 AM
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originally posted by: missed_gear
a reply to: JDmOKIAccording to all laws of the United States, illegally entering or remaining without legal status within the United States is still illegal by any means.
Same in the UK, it is a crime to enter without a visa/passport/etc, but while tens of thousands who get caught are simply kicked out, only a few hundred actually get prosecuted first.
It's difficult to find out why some go to court instead of just deported, maybe they have committed other crimes as well while being here illegally, I don't know though, I'm guessing is all.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 08:17 AM
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a reply to: missed_gear

Only a joke relax but Maybe just a little truth sprinkled in



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: JDmOKI
I took it as a joke, and nearly replied "No! Straight white males are the worst! Build that wall...build that wall!"
I stopped myself though I understood your point with positive discrimination and whatnot these days.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 08:27 AM
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a reply to: JDmOKI

How was that a joke?

Your comment was purely racist and unfortunately believed by far, far to many in the United States.

I'm not white; you are proving the point/question of this OP..

The answer is, the wall is not racist..the wall is also visa overstays, entering ports of entry illegally and attempting to resided illegally. All of the involvement physical wall, border patrol to ICE is part of "the wall.

All politically played as "racist".

Mg



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 08:27 AM
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Double post

Mg

edit on 23-8-2018 by missed_gear because: Double post



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 08:29 AM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Wow, thanks for all the interesting replies, it has been a fascinating read seeing the perspective from US members.
I made the comparison in the OP with how the UK is so strict on immigration with very little criticism from the rest of the world, aside from France of course which wants us to take the migrants camped on their northern shore while they refuse to register there.

It is slightly different here though due to EU membership. Right now we have over a million migrant workers from Eastern Europe who do all the crappy jobs which Brits won't do. They are all here legally of course, and we need them for the same reasons the US needs unskilled workers to fill employment gaps, farm work, factory work etc.
What will change (if) when then Britain leaves the EU is how these workers continue to come here legally. There is talk of a simple visa scheme where Britain takes workers to fill our gaps, just employers would need to prove they cannot hire locally, but then we enter the 'racist' domain with issues about which countries we allow workers from.

At present the system is racist or certainly nationalist because only European workers get the right to work here. Post Brexit, under a visa scheme I would imagine this visa system would have to be offered to non-EU nationals as well or it would seem disciminatory.
I have no problem with that because we need these workers, so if it was offered to everyone who can speak English, be they from India, Australia, or Latvia then a fair system of immigration can continue.

Our regime is much more intrusive for workers than anything I imagine a US president could get away with. To work here you must have ID and proof of your right to remain in the UK. Employers are prosecuted if they don't verify this information (unlimited fines), same for landlords renting accomodation out.
Social Security numbers are difficult to obtain, and any discrepancy with names etc are quickly picked up on the database prompting investigation by the border force who quickly arrest and deport those caught.
Gone are the days of clerical records where you could rent the SS number off someone in prison and claim to be them.

That said, it seems the general consensus is that controlling the people who enter a country is sensible and not 'racist' but an essential part of running a nation.
We will always have some illegal immigrants working in the UK but it is a very tough climate and people get busted and kicked out regularly. Only recently a car wash place and a Chinese restaurant got busted in my area, everyone suspected they were illegal, and I guess someone grassed to the authorities so they swooped with van loads of officers and arrested lots of workers.

Same as the US, our biggest problem is people over-staying their holiday visa, not actually sneaking into the country, but the only work they can get is blackmarket, cash, and under the minimum wage so it is not a welcoming environment. Illegals can't get driving licences, cannot access healthcare (unless emergency of course), can't rent property, and certainly can't get arrested for something as Border force will be informed and they get kicked out.

It shocks me that illegals in the US can get driving licences in some states because even applying for one here would result in your front door being kicked in.
That said though, if the immigration policy is consistent to all then it is not racist. I'm a white Brit for example, and I assume that if I overstayed and worked illegally in the US I'd be kicked out if caught by authorities, rightly so.
If that is the case then it is not racist and I support the US being as tough on illegals as the UK is.

Again, thanks for all the interesting replies, this was just a thread so I could learn more, and also try to show you guys that the UK is tougher on immigration yet nobody complains that we are racist xenophobes, just a sensible nation desperately trying to keep our numbers of folk at a manageable level - sensible policy as far as I see for any nation.


I worked at an "international university" in the UK for some time, and certain ethnic groups were known for getting a SSN, their first bursary cheque from the university, then "disappearing" down to London. Matriculation was then rearranged so that the photograph was taken first, then the bursary and finally the SSN. Even then they still disappeared.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 08:45 AM
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a reply to: stormcell
I always wonder where do they get all these 'under the counter' jobs from though? A legitimate employer still requires a passport/immigration document showing 'right to employment' as well as the social security number.
There are only so many fast food joints and hand car wash places in London to go around.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: stormcell
I always wonder where do they get all these 'under the counter' jobs from though? A legitimate employer still requires a passport/immigration document showing 'right to employment' as well as the social security number.
There are only so many fast food joints and hand car wash places in London to go around.


Under-the-counter jobs are networked in the southern United States.

Bottom-line, illegals are preyed upon by their own. Not by fastfood...common misconception.

Mg



edit on 23-8-2018 by missed_gear because: Phone spell check



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 09:15 AM
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a reply to: missed_gear
Ah I was thinking of the UK when I said fast food. One of our biggest illegal worker markets is Indian/Chinese restaurants or Kebab shops (Turkish immigrants) - Family owned businesses which bring relatives over illegally to work.



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