The scar of abortion on the American perspective.

a reply to: dawnstar

ok so you defending abortion first by

Attacking religion

Attacking the Op

Calling the Op a liar

referencing arcanic methods in defense of modern laws

minimizing the impact of abortion as if the number 40 million is very low.

Justifying current laws by providing examples using animals.

Me thinks you have some personal vendetta against the unborn?


Fact is if by killing the unborn we diminish the value of life. We turn and look the other way when a city is worse than a war zone because it is minorities and it makes the appearance that they do not matter born or unborn.

a reply to: Saiker

do you refute that the rate of abortions have been steadily decreasing since 1990??
do you refute the fact that the number of abortions involving fetuses that are even close to the stage of development that it has a chance of survival is extremely low, especially in today's time when most states have laws against abortion at that stage, there are far fewer doctors that are offering that services and you may have to travel across the country to find one, and the costs are so much higher?
I am not attacking religion, but when religious groups proceeded to buy out those little community hospitals a decade or so ago and running them under religious rules that ignored sanity when it came to women with pregnancy complications... yes, I do have a problem with that, and I have a problem when the political party that flies the right to life banner so high tries so hard to protect those religious groups "religious beliefs" and allows them to harm those women by allowing a dangerous health issue to progress to the point where she it becomes a life threatening health crisis!!

minimizing the impact of abortion as if the number 40 million is very low.

first, 40 million over how many years?
second, go do a search and see if there is a website that shows the children that are within the foster care system who are eligible for adoption at the current time. my area has one, and well... there are lots of kids in my area that are available.
how many more would there be on there is all of that 40 million were brought into the world? and, keep in mind that there would be a significant number of that 40 million with severe birth defects that would require extensive medical care as well as a few orphans because the single mom had died in childbirth!!
no, I don't have a personal vandetta against the unborn, I would very much prefer that women have effective birth control available and use it, but, I just ain't so sure if we would value life more or less if that 40 million had been brought into the world and society had to coup with the some of the problems they might have brought with them. it would depend on what method we chose to use to coup.. poor houses sure didn't show much value in life, neither does war, or slavery, or forcing sterilizaton onto select populatons, heck people are having a fit that a small amount of their tax money is used to feed the poor children now, to me, that isn't really showing that we value the lives of those kid.

by the way, I grew up in a small town that once had the nickname "Little Chicago" because although it was a small town, the chicago mobs had alot of influence within it. so whenever those mobs went to war with each other in chicago, that war also came into my small hometown, making it a war zone! this was before abortion was legalized... there was no legalized abortion during the height of the lynchings in the south. or when we sent so many native americans to their death marching across the US, or the many other cruel acts our ancestors took part of in the past. if anything we, as a society, view life and the humane treatment of our fellow humans more valuable today.

When Cain slew Able, the Lord God told him that the very ground cried out against his murderous act. Then the Lord God pronounced judgement against Cain. Cain then begged that the sentence was too much, and the Lord God showed mercy upon him. Eventually the mercy shown upon an UNREPENTANT SINNER devolved into the complete destruction of the known world during the flood.

This time by fire.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: Saiker

Thou shall not murder.
This is the commandment. Not kill.
Abortion is murder.
The End.

Trolololol!

Except in War, or killing criminals, or in self defense, or when someone doesn't have the same skin color or lives across an imaginary line in the sand, etc.

Funny how those commandments only apply to the things you want them too....

a reply to: Yule C Mann

gee, I wonder how loudly the earth cried out when the Isrealites, by orders of this God, went into the promised land and killed nearly everyone there but the few they found favor with and kept as concubines.

originally posted by: Yule C Mann
When Cain slew Able, the Lord God told him that the very ground cried out against his murderous act.

OH!!

Was Able in the uterus then?

As this thread is regarding abortion .......

originally posted by: Annee
Again?

It's no one's business beyond the one(s) making the decision.

The innocent baby growing in the womb needs some sort of representation since it is incapable of defending itself. There are people alive today who literally owe their lives to those fighting for pro-life.

originally posted by: cooperton

There are people alive today who literally owe their lives to those fighting for pro-life.

Its Legal ..... pro-life can make as much noise as they like, they have no

right or means to stop it !!!...... ITS LEGAL.

a reply to: cooperton
but when it comes to individual cases, those right to life representatives have no idea about the medical condition of the mother, or the baby... nor do they have any right under our laws to know!!!
what both sides seem to be missing is that the decision to abort or not should be based largely on the medical information for the case along with how the pregnancy is expected to affect not only the women, but also the family unit that is depending on her to be able to perform whatever duties that she is expected to be doing and their ability to do without her being able to perform those duties, and the length of time they can do without and the financial strain it will inflict on that family unit.
and gee, if the women had to go to some tribunal to reveal all that to obtain permission for an abortion, that's a heck of alot of personal information and by the time it was all hashed out, the window of opportunity would have long passed.

The reasoning for the decrease is better methods of birth control. All of the notations and excuses for the benefits only blame the baby for being conceived. It is further defining the diminished value of life. Rather than a mother and father taking personal responsibility for their actions (except in the case of rape and mercy) they the mother and father would rather blame an innocent person for their reckless actions. Their conscious allows that decision because life has been diminished to the point where it doesn't matter. As that perceived conscious is observed over and over again then life then begins to become meaningless.

a reply to: Saiker

ya, it's just all black and white, ain't it...
people just need to take responsibility for their actions...
well, for some people ya, what you say is more than likely true.
but pregnancy does cause an amount of strain on a women's body, for some far more strain than normal. they might have to stop working early in their pregnancy, they might find caring for their living breathing children near impossible, they might know early in their pregnancy that to safely carry it to full term, extending hospitalization will be needed.
pregnancy causes changes in a women's body that will follow them the rest of their lives and often times pop up in their later years as very annoying health problems.

a reply to: dawnstar

And most of these issues can be advised by doctors before the act. At least the strain on the woman and the useless baby wouldn't have had to endure hell in the first place. Really with the advancements in birth control and family planning and the leaps and bounds made by medical research the abortion should have become a very rare thing by now.


And again this thread isn't about the right or wrong of abortion. Its more about the impact abortion has on the value of life.

originally posted by: Saiker
a reply to: kaylaluv

I came up sleeping on a nippa hut floor and many days only had rice to eat. I NEVER ONCE REGRETTED BEING BORN. In fact we celebrated life every day. There is no excuse an American has to kill their kids. Sure some may have sever disabilities but not 40 million of them. More than 20 percent of the population has been murdered by abortion in the US. If that's not an epidemic i don't know what is. The leading cause of premature death in us is abortion by many millions.

Just out of curiosity, in which country did that hut of your "coming up" reside in?

I'd seriously like to know. That way, I can decide if I'd like to hypothetically raise offspring in your country, or save them the trouble of any pervasive extreme poverty, starvation, disease, etc. Just because you liked your childhood conditions doesn't mean the next kid would have, it might have been utter hell on earth to them.

a reply to: Saiker

well... gee, ya know, it seems that the value of life is also diminished when there are a great number of unemployed. I mean, it seems the employers have less and less value in the lives of their employees and their families the more applications they have on hand to pick and chose their replacements from!!!

like I pointed out, it seems that society today values life and humane treatment of it's fellow humans far more than in earlier times. you point to the mess in chicago, but well how much worse it is now than it was back in the day when the mafia ran the city and they were gunning down their enemies with machine guns. school shooting probably have more to do with the over prescribing of depression, anxiety, psychotic meds and the like.. which I am sure if you asked those who are depressed, anxious, psychotic and the like why they feel the way the do, none of would attribute it to oh, but there's legal abortion and life just ain't worth crap anymore!

a reply to: dawnstar

You are trying to murky the waters of the topic. Unemployment has nothing to do with abortion or the value of life especially in America and its safety nets.

Do you think the doctor had a harder time with his first procedure than say his hundredth?

Why because he has already killed one time whats another the 2nd life has less value than the first and becomes easier and easier with the more procedures. This is the same for society and its impact.

But dont worry as time goes by and more and more are aborted less people will be opposed and it will become commonplace to slaughter the unborn as just a medical procedure rather than destroying the value of life.

a reply to: Saiker
At first I was going to pass this by and then, decided not to:

So the Op, has decided that Abortion is bad, that we need to revisit this topic, stating that it is wrong on all levels. That the acceptance of abortion has led to a moral decline, that it was used to keep the minorities down, that such a procedure is racist and that as we accept such, it leads to far greater forms of violence such as mass shootings.

There are many things that are missed in this argument. The first thing that is never talked about, or even discussed, is that by outlawing a medical procedure, would mean that we lose the right to privacy between a doctor and a patient. That all of our medical records would be open to discussion, inspection, questions and public discussion open for one and all to see and view. After all how does one find out about such, if it is behind a closed door, unless there is someone else in the doctors office, or going through medical records. Are we ready to get rid of that privacy, having it out in the open? I can think of a few men in positions that could end up losing their positions if what was in their medical records were to be exposed.

And of course, there is the punishment, so who is willing to see their own mother, sister, aunt, grandmother, daughter or even granddaughter in jail? After all, according to most experts, miscarriages do happen, and that 80% of such will happen within the first 3 months of pregnancies. So those would need to be investigated and the woman examined, her life on display and inspected.

Course by outlawing that medical procedure, one could say that woman are not able to make any sort of medical decision, that it would require a man to decide such.

Then there is the practical part of this, that many never talk about, the children. Oh you will hear calls for cutting all of the social safety nets, the cries that it is a burden on the people, and thus they cut such. A child needs things to grow, food in the belly, medical attention, a roof, clothing, a bed, an education. Funny how those are never in the discussion, nor is it seen where those who are against abortion are not wanting to open their homes or their wallets to deal with such and the financial responsibility of such.

The argument against abortion was never about saving children, but about controlling women. There is no other viable answer to this problem. The only way to stop this then those against abortion would be for: Sex education, and not just abstinence, but all the ways to stop pregnancy. Then there is the social net programs that are always up on the chopping block. Food Stamps, medical, affordable housing, living wage, even easier adoptions. All of the things that a child would need, or even the parent who is having the child that needs to be have. But it seems as those are the things that get targeted by the very people who are opposing abortions.

So what viable options are there? Is it crueler to have an abortion, or to see a child dying from malnutrition, sickness or for a lack of home to live in?

George Carlin summed this up with this statement:
Boy, these conservative are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. no neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you are preschool, you're #ed."

a reply to: sdcigarpig

You lost me in the first paragraph. This thread has nothing to do with the morality of abortion nor whether it's good or bad. The thread was for weighing the impact abortion has on the value of life, in particular, the targeted minority community. Those who cherish abortion felt it would tarnish abortion so they swooped in to take it off topic. Now you further take it off topic as to argue politics?

America has a safety net and it has not be threatened at all. When a topic comes up to debate the merits of certain programs the liberals swoop in and shout don't throw grandma off the cliff, but here's a baby throw it.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: Saiker

Thou shall not murder.
This is the commandment. Not kill.
Abortion is murder.
The End.

A woman's body can naturally abort a child, from what I understand.

Does that make god a murderer, since he omnipotent and omniscient?

and let's not forget the 2011 tsunami, that was completely engineered by...GOD...that murdered 230,000 men, women, and CHILDREN....god didn't give a rat's ass about those children....logic is a bitch, isn't it.

I propose a new slogan. "Abortion- Get over it."

originally posted by: Saiker

This thread has nothing to do with the morality of abortion nor whether it's good or bad.

In that case whats your problem?

The thread was for weighing the impact abortion has on the value of life

You mean the value of a potential life of an ova a seed that has

no possibility of living without the intervention of a host for

5/6 months to enable it to live ...... as against sending thousands

of fit live young people into a war zone to face death. Or families in areas

waiting to be bombed by their own governments?


Who's life do you value ..... the one who doesn't yet know what life is or

the one who is already alive

in particular, the targeted minority community. Those who cherish abortion felt it would tarnish abortion so they swooped in to take it off topic. Now you further take it off topic as to argue politics?

"The targeted minority community"?

Who would they be?

"Those who cherish abortion"?

Who would they be?

Abortion is a personal legally made descision NOT a group activity nor a

government policy or agenda.

America has a safety net and it has not be threatened at all. When a topic comes up to debate the merits of certain programs the liberals swoop in and shout don't throw grandma off the cliff, but here's a baby throw it.

Give your head a wobble!!