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Political zealots: have you no shame?

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posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


Trump is in some pretty deep sh1t


Do you really believe that? Based on what?

Paying off some degenerate porn star isn't a crime - it is clearly to maintain his personal reputation and business reputation and entirely unrelated to the campaign (as its own "person" - a company is a distinct legal entity)

Further, it wasn't Trump who actually paid to begin with - his lawyer did so out of his own pocket (by his own admission). Regardless of Trump's intention, it is Cohen's job to know the law (as the attorney) and act on Mr. Trump's behalf in a lawful way.

And as far as Manafort goes? Even the prosecution made very clear - from the start - that the case had nothing to do with Russia or "collusion" and frankly nothing to do with the President. The charges Manafort faced were actually investigated/considered once against Manafort by Rosenstein, over 10 years ago

Ah, so what is left? The Trump tower meeting? Not a crime. You are free to meet with whoever you want, even if it is to "get dirt" on a political opponent. Back to Hillary Clinton, she did The. Exact. Same. Thing against Trump...and that wasn't a crime either

(although their politically motivated use of the politically motivated and biased campaign "dossier" for law enforcement purposes may have been criminal)

So unless I'm missing something glaring, obvious, and vulgar, this is still a giant nothing-burger that is going nowhere fast.




posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: cosmickat

I wonder too. Probably because he's an American citizen who is entitled to his own view. Just as we are. Just as you presumably are


The problem - once again - is people pushing unaccredited and unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about "Russian collusion" or whatever other insane theories have developed from that rabbit hole. Such baseless and irresponsible theories do nothing but deepen the already major divide in this country, and all-but ensure reconciliation can't or won't happen. Firing off baseless and hysterical conspiracy theories a-mile-a-minute is a non-starter for compromise discussion

The problem is not disliking Trump. I couldn't care less if your or anyone else "likes" him. It is about destroying our judicial system and likely our country all because some spoiled children didn't get their way in an election - that is my problem.

Another part of the problem is ridiculous identity politics, which has essentially brainwashed a certain percentage of the population into believing their position on the issues is actually somehow morally and objectively superior to our own and therefore that any compromise is akin to appeasing Nazi Germany (another false comparison, designed to dehumanize conservatives and maliciously/falsely represent our ideals)

Some of us worked too hard to build a life just to have some morons in diapers ideologically corrupted into believing they are owed something from me (and society in general) merely for existing.

In short, the far-left needs to get over its zealotry and take a seat at the negotiation table with realistic expectations. Their position of supporting illegal immigration (and the crimes of illegals), attacking Americans and American icons (like the flag/anthem/etc), attacking our law enforcement institutions (as opposed to the minority of corrupt human beings within them) and working to abolish fundamental rights guaranteed by the Constitution are not winning strategies.
edit on 8/22/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 04:21 PM
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Violence, from either side, has no place in today's politics. If this occurs outside our normal run-of-the-mill crazies, and otherwise sane citizens, we will have no one but ourselves to blame.

Take up arms to protect Donald Trump? Preposterous. If he goes, it will be on the fair and square. Majority rules.



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: angeldoll


Violence, from either side, has no place in today's politics. If this occurs outside our normal run-of-the-mill crazies, and otherwise sane citizens, we will have no one but ourselves to blame.

Take up arms to protect Donald Trump? Preposterous. If he goes, it will be on the fair and square. Majority rules.


Yes, I couldn't agree more with this


However, it isn't exclusively majority that rules over impeachment/conviction but actual commission of "High crimes and misdemeanors." I'd have no problem with legitimate impeachment/conviction as specified in the Constitution for acts specifically described by the Constitution as supported by credible/tangible evidence

Then again, that would make it a "legal act of congress" vs. a politically motivated & illegitimate junta (or coup de etat)


edit on 8/22/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Given that the house and senate are both republican, if there should be an impeachment, there should be no reason to believe it was anything other than kosher. Right?

Even if the democrats should take the house and submit articles of impeachment, it will still need to be upheld by the senate. So if it's done, I see no reason for dissent.


Then again, that would make it a "legal act of congress" vs. a politically motivated & illegitimate junta (or coup de etat)


In our country, a "legal act of congress" is all there is. It is the only path to impeachment. So no worries.


edit on 8/22/2018 by angeldoll because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: angeldoll


Given that the house and senate are both republican, if there should be an impeachment, there should be no reason to believe it was anything other than kosher. Right?


I don't expect any impeachment or anything even like that unless and until Republicans no longer control congress. It isn't that I believe Republicans are less-corrupt or ideologically motivated, just that their own interests of re-election dictates having nothing to do with impeachment.

I am mostly concerned of a Democratic majority attempting to use impeachment/criminal justice system to arbitrarily neutralize our agenda for political reasons, and not impeachment/conviction under legitimate and evidence-backed circumstances.

Realistically, once the SCOTUS originalist-majority is cemented I will be satisfied our Constitution is being well protected. An act of political impeachment/conviction, for example, could be squashed by the SCOTUS if it appeared malicious (ie: an attempt to impeach both Trump and Pence for the purpose of installing a Democratic speaker as President - that is a coup, whether under technically legal means or not)

Thankfully some on the left realize it is far too early to discuss impeachment/etc. I anticipate that status quo will remain short of some previously unknown "smoking gun" coming to light.

With all the allegations, insinuations and conspiracy theories floating around, I can't even really clearly define what it is the left expect Trump to be impeached/convicted for. I point out again there is still no evidence he broke any US laws

edit on 8/22/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: angeldoll


In our country, a "legal act of congress" is all there is. It is the only path to impeachment. So no worries.


I am referring to an attempt by a majority congress to impeach/convict a President on grounds other than genuine "High crimes and misdemeanors" ie: impeach/convict merely for disliking the President or his politics. Political differences as an example are never a good enough reason to impeach a duly elected President.

An example would be a Democratic majority congress impeaching both Trump and Pence for the sake of installing their speaker as President. That would be seen as a transparent coup by Americans, who hopefully would not stand for it. This is why I say having the SCOTUS is so crucial

...and of course always remember that what goes around comes around. I have no doubt the next Democrat President will be subjected to the same BS nonsense, therefore completing the vicious circle and yet again further widening the already near-insurmountable chasm. It is the petty and arbitrary use of legal institutions and Constitutional remedies to pursue political aims I concerned about
edit on 8/22/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 04:57 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: TrueBrit

I'm not a zealot. I'm a patriot. There is a difference.

I've been a patriot since my great American ancestors kicked your government, its military and your country off our land in one of Britain's most embarrassing defeats (seconded only by its loss of 90% of Ireland to Republicans).

Patriots don't encourage politically motivated investigations. Regardless of what comes out of them.


Patriot:

A term that has been become practically meaningless.



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: introvert

It is not meaningless. It means a person who loves their country and defends the Constitution. Those things are greater than any ideology, transcend party boundaries and reign supreme over petty political differences any day of the week

That is a patriot. It isn't a democrat or republican term. It isn't even a term exclusive to American citizens (look at the foreign citizens who have fought beside our brave troops in battle). It is a bond, between freedom loving individuals, to defend our Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: JBurns



It is not meaningless. It means a person who loves their country and defends the Constitution.


Yes, and I get to witness first hand how these so-called "patriots" confuse ultra-nationalism for patriotism and step on basic constitutional principles all the time.

It's meaningless anymore. It's a Right Wing meme. It's a propaganda term that is thrown in people's faces by those that want to express some sort of superiority over another through the claim of love for country, or paint themselves as some sort of "divine" soldier for the country. (I use the term "divine" is a specific context")



That is a patriot. It isn't a democrat or republican term. It isn't even a term exclusive to American citizens (look at the foreign citizens who have fought beside our brave troops in battle). It is a bond, between freedom loving individuals, to defend our Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.


Sounds like you are talking about the Oath of Enlistment for the military.

Like I said: It's the mindset of someone that thinks they are a "soldier" for a cause.
edit on 22-8-2018 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 05:16 PM
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I think the biggest reason for the attacks on Trump is to keep him on the defensive, stopping him from implementing significant change and instituting a conservative agenda.



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 05:20 PM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
I think the biggest reason for the attacks on Trump is to keep him on the defensive, stopping him from implementing significant change and instituting a conservative agenda.


I think it's a lack of conservative beliefs and ideals that stops him from instituting a conservative agenda.

But that could be said about the Right Wing in general.

I'm sure conservatives that actually believe in the principles would like their name back.



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 09:06 PM
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originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: JBurns

Please.
Scandal after scandal the past 2 years.
Scandals in his personal life going back decades.

He has been treated unfairly at times. For sure.

He is not me squeaky clean either.

The common thread in all his scandals and all his hiring the best people then firing them is him.

It is clear to me at this point no matter what happens people will still deflect away from him.
Its never him.

Fires people after hiring them cause their the best? Their fault.
Alleged collusion? Not a crime anyway

All the current goings on? Just the dems and the deep state trying to take him down.

Basically anything that absolves him is what people are going to go with.

It's a joke
He is a joke
All the devotees are a joke
This administration is a joke and I can't wait until it's over.


Damn, dude, did you get seconds on those Wheaties this AM?! TST, swinging the truth hammer, or is it dropping the truth bomb? You rolled that one up into a knot slipped in the blood choke: put this nonsense to sleep



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 09:20 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Oh man you talk about zealots on the left but its the right zealots who have plenty of muder and crazy. I mean you guys wouldn't shut up about Obama for the entire time he was in office. Accusing him of being a muslim. A non citizen. Even accusing his wife of being a man.

Thanks so much for the warning. Lol.

And what is this "agenda" you speak of.



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 09:26 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Thats right America was born out of terrorism. You did give the definition of terrorism as using violence to achieve political goals? So the founding fathers were technically terrorism.



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 10:02 PM
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Unfortunately some have chosen to interpret this OP as something more than an (possibly astute) observation. I have read many articles on the Web as well as respected news outlets point out the very real risk of political violence not seen since the 70s and 80s and possibly longer in some instances

Being prepared for possibly widespread violence is never a bad idea, nor is being aware of the risk it could pose to life and property. Of course I am not trying to sound like an alarmist either, I still personally asses the possibility as low that any widespread violence would occur.

The problem is violence doesn't have to be widespread to have an impact. We have already seen dozens of violent attacks motivated by some extreme ideology or another. That alone is worrisome enough to justify some extra precautions. Common sense stuff really, like avoiding areas with scheduled rallies, avoiding unnecessary trips to large metro areas if you live in the country things like that

As far as being a patriot, as I said it is not a word exclusive to any political party. No ideology holds a monopoly on loving your country and being worried about its future. A lot of good people worked hard to make good lives for their families don't deserve the looting, rioting and random acts of violence that often comes with such civil unrest

Several have said it already, but Americans are better than that. It is a larger issue than whether or not you like Trump as a President. By 2020/2024 he is out of office and the next President gets in. Imagine the way the GOP will treat that President? It will ensure government is paralyzed and unable to meaningful carry out its functions. Our founders specifically warned of partisanship's effect on a functional government (intensified by bureaucracy), of the two party system.



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 03:27 AM
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originally posted by: Blarneystoner

If Trump is indicted what are you and your fellow "patriots" going to do? Start popping people in the streets?


That's what it sounds like to me, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this. Trump and his associates did many illegal things. That comes with consequences. It's their own fault. If people go popping shots off at others in the streets because they can't handle this, they are even worse than Trump or Hillary.
edit on 23amThu, 23 Aug 2018 03:32:11 -0500kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 03:29 AM
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a reply to: JBurns

Would a real patriot stand by as it came to light that their President and his associates were engaged in criminal activity? Would a real patriot want the corruption to continue or to let the criminals off easy? Even the investigation into Hillary's e-mail servers and the Whitewater investigation into Bill Clinton were allowed to run their courses.
edit on 23amThu, 23 Aug 2018 03:33:42 -0500kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 04:00 AM
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originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: JBurns

Would a real patriot stand by as it came to light that their President and his associates were engaged in criminal activity? Would a real patriot want the corruption to continue or to let the criminals off easy? Even the investigation into Hillary's e-mail servers and the Whitewater investigation into Bill Clinton were allowed to run their courses.


A real patriot would be insulted, deeply. Not defend the sorry sack.

Also, for reference, since the OP doesn't seem to understand the definitions of "patriot" and "zealot" too well:



patriot
noun

1A person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
‘a true patriot’

Origin

Late 16th century: from French patriote, from late Latin patriota ‘fellow countryman’, from Greek patriōtēs, from patrios ‘of one's fathers’, from patris ‘fatherland’.

en.oxforddictionaries.com...



zealot
noun

1A person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.

1.1historical A member of an ancient Jewish sect aiming at a world Jewish theocracy and resisting the Romans until AD 70.

Origin

Mid 16th century (in the sense ‘member of an ancient Jewish sect’): via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek zēlōtēs, from zēloun ‘be jealous’, from zēlos (see zeal).

en.oxforddictionaries.com...

Guess which one the OP is best defined as. Hint: he might be vigorous in his word salads, but it's clearly fanatical in origin.
edit on 8/23/2018 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2018 @ 05:54 AM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
I think the biggest reason for the attacks on Trump is to keep him on the defensive, stopping him from implementing significant change and instituting a conservative agenda.


I don't think he's conservative outside of dealing in the market. Then conservatism serves business well. Aside from that I don't think he is. Not a conservative but plays one on TV.
I also don't think he's doing all he wants. He's playing his part in Washington. As those before him. Proof? He's still alive. You don't balk those that run the country.




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