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Killing uncomfortable history

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posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 06:40 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

No, I get it. People these days are fundamentally intolerant of everything they don't like. That's IT.

People have decided that those statues are represetative of slavery and honor it, so that's all they'll accept the purpose of them is. They won't tolerate any other possible view. That's the only possible thing those statues could ever be for them. They're locked into that worldview and because of that, they cannot tolerate it. They won't, so they got angry and knocked those statues down and refused to even listen to anyone else.

And that's the only reason I can think of why anyone would get so upset over the meer existence of a statue that they cannot wait for the legal process to decide if it should stay or go, but instead have to show up in the dark of night or as an unruly howling mob complete with torches and pitchforks to lynch the piece of bronze.
edit on 21-8-2018 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 06:59 PM
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Extrapolating what happened in the past (or will happen in the future, for that matter) is a dicey subject. The farther we get away from the universal configuration that we call "now" in either direction we almost immediately run into massive amounts of chaos. History books are laughably inaccurate and written by the winners. Archeology is only able to come up with best guesses.

The truth is, we know very little about what happened in the past, just as we actually know very little about what's going on right now. Time travel back into the past to verify anything and you'll be complete baffled by everything.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 07:09 PM
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Only weak minded and shallow people shy away from the reality of history. The key is to learn from that history, grow as a nation and continue to strive toward the realization of perfect freedom



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 07:17 PM
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When will the libs desecrate monuments to Franklin D. Roosevelt for his internment of the Japanese Americans?



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 08:10 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

This has become such a polarizing debate that I want to go back to my first view. Let everyone build their statues. However, that appears to be unacceptable to Annee, and maybe some others as well. So if Confederate statues have to go, they should all have to go. All monuments, statues, holocaust memorials, everything. Why does any group get preference over any other?

Some of these things have been here over 100 yrs. That makes them historic in and of themselves. No matter, if one goes, they all go. It's only fair.

After reading all of this I kind of wish someone would put up a Hitler statue. Just to watch the fireworks. Oh wait -



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 09:06 PM
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originally posted by: toms54

So if Confederate statues have to go, they should all have to go. All monuments, statues, holocaust memorials, everything. Why does any group get preference over any other?


Drama much? All or nothing?

How about individual case basis?

How about we replace some with women, people of color, and anyone else slighted just because they weren't socially/culturally acceptable to be recognized for their bravery and participation at the time.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 09:11 PM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Annee


However, the Republican Right made it a law that the Confederate Statues can't be touched. So, how exactly are they supposed to go through legal channels?



Wasnt there something like a Hisotory commision that was set up to handle those situations?


Also when you paint with a wide brush, why cant I... you say everything built during jim crow was racist, while I say there is reasonable doubt.

I would say the person making blanket statements needs to provide evidence.



Where did I say "Everything built during the Jim Crow was racist?"

Show me where I used the word racist or slavery.

Not as part of an article - - but, where I actually used those words.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Never seen statues of Clara Barton?



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 09:31 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

Never seen statues of Clara Barton?


No.

When was her statue erected. And where.

Got any more?

The push to have women and minorities recognized has been going on a long time.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 09:46 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Not strictly a statue, but there is a monument to her erected at Antietam in recognition of how she and her nurses brought in aid and supplies to the wounded.

Frederick Douglass statues stand in several places, including a spot in Maryland.

It's not that women and African-Americans are absent from the country. They're just not as prevalent from that time in history, and there are historical reasons for why that is. That is a lesson to be taught, not something to be wall-papered over by reaching for the world's greatest quilter to erect a statue of and/or the world's greatest ... whatever African-Americans were easily allowed to do which was mostly slave labor or menial day labor in places where they were freedmen.

I suppose you could erect a statue to someone like William Ellison, a wealthy and successful Southern business owner and later on plantation owner with his own slaves.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 09:59 PM
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a reply to: Annee


The vast majority of them were built between the 1890s and 1950s, which matches up exactly with the era of Jim Crow segregation.” According to the Southern Poverty Law Center’s research, the biggest spike was between 1900 and the 1920s.

This was the piece you quoted from the article you linked...


This is about the statues (majority) that were built during the Jim Crow/Civil Rights era.


You repeatedly talk about the jim crow era laws, what was largely considered a time with heavy racisim in the country.

So why you may not have said it exactly you certainly implied it pretty bloody heavily, or you wouldn't have repeated it through the thread.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 10:14 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: toms54

So if Confederate statues have to go, they should all have to go. All monuments, statues, holocaust memorials, everything. Why does any group get preference over any other?


Drama much? All or nothing?

How about individual case basis?

How about we replace some with women, people of color, and anyone else slighted just because they weren't socially/culturally acceptable to be recognized for their bravery and participation at the time.


What? Case by case? As long as you're in charge? How about case by case with me in charge? I'm just as good as you are. Why do the rest of have to kiss your...ring? You live in a self centered fantasy world. Besides that you are annoying.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 10:22 PM
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How about, if something offends you. . . .


STOP LOOKING AT IT!!!



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 10:31 PM
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a reply to: network dude

The Real Statues that should be Removed for their Offensive Behavior are these SJW’s themselves . Who Exactly gave them the Authority to Destroy Public Property without Suffering Criminal Prosecution ?



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 10:56 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
Recently, my state has become a hotbed of "statue hate". Those who aren't mentally capable of existing in the same space as historical monuments erected to portray a certain time in history, decided to take the future of the state into their own tiny little hands. They were hailed as heroes to their peers. Disgusting, weak minded, and intellectually lazy by others. But when and where does it stop?

Zebulon Baird Vance
en.wikipedia.org...
Vance fought on the side of the South. He might have been considered a “racist” by todays standards.
There are statues of him, towns named after him, and informational plaques all over North Carolina to explain his history. Should we change all that? Should we change :
The town of Zebulon, in Wake County
The town of Vanceboro, in Craven County
Vance County, NC
Zebulon B. Vance High School in Charlotte
Zeb Vance Elementary School in Kittrell
Vance Masonic Lodge A.F.&A.M. #293 in Weaverville
Vance Gap Road in Asheville

This is just a part of the rich history of my state. We have civil war battlefields a few miles away. Many of the local citizens have grouped together to maintain this site and keep it’s purpose alive so that any and all who wish to visit the site, can learn about it’s history. But it’s history is rooted in racism, it was the civil war. Should it be removed, so that it’s appearance won’t hurt feelings of the fragile?

Have we regressed this far that any history that the weak don’t like, should be removed from view?
Sadly, it appears so. Rather than learn from history, the SJW’s and other weak minded and weak spirited people chose to remove it, so they won’t see it anymore. Perhaps in those tiny minds, by removing it, they think it removes the fact that history actually happened. Perhaps they remove it so they can repress those same racist feelings they have, and know are wrong. Perhaps they are just idiots who are easily led and latched onto the movement started by just a few. Regardless, the end result is bad. History will remain, but it’s visual reminders will be erased, Then, only those who seek out that knowledge will have it. And the rest are doomed to repeat it.
(IMHO)

Can we put up statues of the winners of the Civil War all over the South yet, or is that just forever off-limits in favor of clinging to traitors?



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:26 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

It's not that women and African-Americans are absent from the country. They're just not as prevalent from that time in history, and there are historical reasons for why that is.


WHAT?!?!?!

Are you serious?



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:32 PM
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originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: toms54

So if Confederate statues have to go, they should all have to go. All monuments, statues, holocaust memorials, everything. Why does any group get preference over any other?


Drama much? All or nothing?

How about individual case basis?

How about we replace some with women, people of color, and anyone else slighted just because they weren't socially/culturally acceptable to be recognized for their bravery and participation at the time.


What? Case by case? As long as you're in charge? How about case by case with me in charge? I'm just as good as you are. Why do the rest of have to kiss your...ring? You live in a self centered fantasy world. Besides that you are annoying.


What is your problem?

My posts are straight forward and logical.

Yet -- you go all drama.

You realize the drama is yours -- right?



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:35 PM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Annee


The vast majority of them were built between the 1890s and 1950s, which matches up exactly with the era of Jim Crow segregation.” According to the Southern Poverty Law Center’s research, the biggest spike was between 1900 and the 1920s.

This was the piece you quoted from the article you linked...


This is about the statues (majority) that were built during the Jim Crow/Civil Rights era.


You repeatedly talk about the jim crow era laws, what was largely considered a time with heavy racisim in the country.

So why you may not have said it exactly you certainly implied it pretty bloody heavily, or you wouldn't have repeated it through the thread.


The article.

Yes, it's what the article says.

I never said racism or slavery.



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 06:35 AM
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a reply to: Annee

I realize your posts are logical to your own self centered selfish world view. They cease to be logical when you realize that there are other people in this world who may also have an opinion. You are a worse egomaniac than Trump. No one agrees with you yet you just keep saying the same thing over and over for 5 pages like a troll. Just because people give up on talking to you doesn't mean that you have persuaded them to agree with you.



posted on Aug, 22 2018 @ 07:13 AM
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originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: network dude
Recently, my state has become a hotbed of "statue hate". Those who aren't mentally capable of existing in the same space as historical monuments erected to portray a certain time in history, decided to take the future of the state into their own tiny little hands. They were hailed as heroes to their peers. Disgusting, weak minded, and intellectually lazy by others. But when and where does it stop?

Zebulon Baird Vance
en.wikipedia.org...
Vance fought on the side of the South. He might have been considered a “racist” by todays standards.
There are statues of him, towns named after him, and informational plaques all over North Carolina to explain his history. Should we change all that? Should we change :
The town of Zebulon, in Wake County
The town of Vanceboro, in Craven County
Vance County, NC
Zebulon B. Vance High School in Charlotte
Zeb Vance Elementary School in Kittrell
Vance Masonic Lodge A.F.&A.M. #293 in Weaverville
Vance Gap Road in Asheville

This is just a part of the rich history of my state. We have civil war battlefields a few miles away. Many of the local citizens have grouped together to maintain this site and keep it’s purpose alive so that any and all who wish to visit the site, can learn about it’s history. But it’s history is rooted in racism, it was the civil war. Should it be removed, so that it’s appearance won’t hurt feelings of the fragile?

Have we regressed this far that any history that the weak don’t like, should be removed from view?
Sadly, it appears so. Rather than learn from history, the SJW’s and other weak minded and weak spirited people chose to remove it, so they won’t see it anymore. Perhaps in those tiny minds, by removing it, they think it removes the fact that history actually happened. Perhaps they remove it so they can repress those same racist feelings they have, and know are wrong. Perhaps they are just idiots who are easily led and latched onto the movement started by just a few. Regardless, the end result is bad. History will remain, but it’s visual reminders will be erased, Then, only those who seek out that knowledge will have it. And the rest are doomed to repeat it.
(IMHO)

Can we put up statues of the winners of the Civil War all over the South yet, or is that just forever off-limits in favor of clinging to traitors?


Yes, you can do just that. But, before you put all that new artwork up, you have to explain why the current artwork is hurting fragile folks. This artwork has existed for quite some time, and all of the sudden, it's leaping from it's stand and physically hurting the very feelings of the very weak.

I can't imagine that new artwork would trigger the weak any less. Or would you like to shift your focus over to town names and county names? Those will need to be changed, as to not offend the easily offended. Feelings matter you know. Feelings.

ETA: but I am waiting for you to claim that you personally don't care about the statues, you are just fighting for the social justice of the offended, like a warrior or something. LOL!
edit on 22-8-2018 by network dude because: SJW



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