It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Killing uncomfortable history

page: 6
38
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 12:53 PM
link   
a reply to: Whatthedoctorordered

So then you also think Germany should have kept all of the Nazi statues and monuments standing following the war.




posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 12:54 PM
link   

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Annee


the facts are that the last veterans of the civil war died in the 1950's, now please let us know which statues were put up to commemorate, and which were put up with racist reasons.

I for one don't have the slightest idea how you can differentiate between the two, so you either agree to censor all history or instead try to use them as teaching moments.



And that has what to do with this topic?

I was a senior in high school when the Civil Rights Act was signed. So?

We can drag out "fringes" until they fall off a cliff.

What part of "built during Jim Crow/Civil Rights era" - - are you missing?

You didn't read the article, did you?

edit on 21-8-2018 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 01:18 PM
link   
a reply to: Grambler

After reading that list, it made me realize I was right! The only appropriate subject for statues are Leftist "Saints", like Anthony Bourdain!



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 01:41 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Whatthedoctorordered

So then you also think Germany should have kept all of the Nazi statues and monuments standing following the war.


There is a Vladimir Lenin statue in Seattle. Do you think should it stay or be removed?



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 02:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: TheSubversiveOne

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Whatthedoctorordered

So then you also think Germany should have kept all of the Nazi statues and monuments standing following the war.


There is a Vladimir Lenin statue in Seattle. Do you think should it stay or be removed?


Depends on the circumstances, doesn't it?

LOL - - I love this: "The statue of Lenin became a Fremont landmark and object of curiosity, representing the quirky nature of the artistic neighborhood, whose motto is Libertas Quirkas — freedom to be peculiar."

Interesting read: en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 02:08 PM
link   

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: TheSubversiveOne

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Whatthedoctorordered

So then you also think Germany should have kept all of the Nazi statues and monuments standing following the war.


There is a Vladimir Lenin statue in Seattle. Do you think should it stay or be removed?


Depends on the circumstances, doesn't it?

LOL - - I love this: "The statue of Lenin became a Fremont landmark and object of curiosity, representing the quirky nature of the artistic neighborhood, whose motto is Libertas Quirkas — freedom to be peculiar."

Interesting read: en.wikipedia.org...


I'm not sure a Hitler statue would go over well under those same circumstances.
edit on 21-8-2018 by TheSubversiveOne because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 02:11 PM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

While we're misunderstanding arguements ...

You have missed that many who fought and died in the Civil War on the side of the South did not care on bit about slavery. They were too poor to have slaves, but in those times, your state was your home and source of pride. They were fighting for their homes and livelihoods and families. Toward the end, the North very much was an aggressor (by necessity, but it can't be changed; this is why Civil Wars are so acrimonious) and they fought to defend those things.

To many in the South, that's what those statues stand for ... *not* slavery, and that's not what the protestors are listening to in their turn.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 02:11 PM
link   
a reply to: Annee




I love this

no doubt you would
It is estimated that Lenin is responsible for the deaths of 4 million people
surely something to lol about?



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 02:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: TheSubversiveOne

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Whatthedoctorordered

So then you also think Germany should have kept all of the Nazi statues and monuments standing following the war.


There is a Vladimir Lenin statue in Seattle. Do you think should it stay or be removed?


Depends on the circumstances, doesn't it?

LOL - - I love this: "The statue of Lenin became a Fremont landmark and object of curiosity, representing the quirky nature of the artistic neighborhood, whose motto is Libertas Quirkas — freedom to be peculiar."

Interesting read: en.wikipedia.org...


Especially ironic considering slavery was called the peculiar institution. But please, laugh all you want.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 02:21 PM
link   
Ban all statues and move on. Our society is too ignorant or screwed up to deal with it in some rational manner.

Plus the bonus of spending time on more important issues. (Yeah, I know I'm wrong in many eyes, this is the most important issue of our time)
edit on 8/21/2018 by roadgravel because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 02:25 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: network dude

But how will we possibly be able to remember history if we don't have a statue for everything?

That's the argument I see a lot of people making. Last year in Charlottesville, the majority of the people wanted the Confederate statue gone. I saw a lot of people on this site saying they were wrong to do so because it was erasing history. So which is it? We can't remember history without statues or locals should be allowed to commemorate who and what they want?


I'll try to articulate this as best I can. The statues weren't put up last week, they have been there for a while. When they were proposed, and built, everyone involved was OK with it, or it wouldn't have happened. And for years and years, nobody seemed to have any problem with them. All of the sudden, the SJW movement was born. Butt hurt assholes erupted and started to try to convince others that they were being oppressed by statues. Enough SJW followers existed to amass a group of people who decided to take the law, wipe their ass with it, and do whatever they felt like doing, and tore down some statues.

Now, if a committee was formed and the public was asked, and a consensus was had that required the removal of the statues, based on public opinion, I would still feel exactly as I do about the SJW's who started crying loudly, but I would be forced to accept the results, as that is what the public decided to do.

So while some just aren't mentally capable of dealing with this situation as a democratic society, there are also a good number of mentally challenged people who seem to not understand the part of this where the statues were illegally removed, vandalized, and it was all done by an angry mob, to which poster like you seem to think is how we should do things. And as with those who lack vision, they don't see or understand what a "precedent" is or how it might affect things in the future, things that you yourself may care about.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 02:29 PM
link   
a reply to: network dude

I think this issue makes a notable statement about our society, and it is not positive.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 02:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: network dude

I think this issue makes a notable statement about our society, and it is not positive.


Hard to fight a second Civil War when everyone who learns their history understands the horrors of the first and therefore wants to avoid it, but if we erase that history ...



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 02:53 PM
link   

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: network dude

I think this issue makes a notable statement about our society, and it is not positive.


I agree, but there are two parts to this. First there is the part where people are feeling oppressed by artwork. That is a bit sad, and it's the way a segment of society thinks now, but the second part where mobs of idiots think that it's OK to tear apart things they don't agree with, and a segment of society cheers them on is the one that worries me most. Is there enough of these pinheads to make enough trouble to warrant a reaction? Newton sure thought so.(Newton's third law is: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.)



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 02:57 PM
link   
a reply to: ketsuko

Why shouldn't college kids have enough life experience to understand the issue in depth and ramification these actions can have on future events.

We will whine until our parents, I mean society, gives in. I want it and I want it now. Good luck with life kids...

I'm long past disappointment with society.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 03:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Annee


the facts are that the last veterans of the civil war died in the 1950's, now please let us know which statues were put up to commemorate, and which were put up with racist reasons.

I for one don't have the slightest idea how you can differentiate between the two, so you either agree to censor all history or instead try to use them as teaching moments.



And that has what to do with this topic?

I was a senior in high school when the Civil Rights Act was signed. So?

We can drag out "fringes" until they fall off a cliff.

What part of "built during Jim Crow/Civil Rights era" - - are you missing?

You didn't read the article, did you?


Here I will spell it out for you...


Often in the history of our country it took years, decades even for the bureaucracy to accept honoring someone in any way shape or form.

Almost all the way through the Jim crow era there were still Civil war veterans walking around.


Now I am asking you which ones were racist and which were actual attempts to honor the soldiers?


Can you actually answer my question? (Hint: I know its an impossible question)


You keep throwing out the dates of Jim crow as if that means anything and everything done in that era was done with racist intent... I am asking nay begging for PROOF, that every single statue in the dates that you mentioned were purely and completly done with racist intent.

SPLC does not have any proof they simply stated Jim crow was between this date and this so anything regarding the Confederacy must have racist intent. (FYI: SPLC is such a hack/owned organization at this point it barely rates above Info Wars for truthful statements)



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 04:13 PM
link   
a reply to: ketsuko

I gave you a star for at least trying to address the fundamental differences in perspectives, and therefore positions, but --


...You have missed...


-- that's the problem. I have not taken ANY POSITION on this matter. Nor have I "missed" anything. I have practically handed out direct and appropriate arguments on a silver platter. But no one can get past me. No one can even see that I'm not taking the position of the protesters, I am simply stating their position and asking folks to address their concerns... to explain why the Civil War -- the the Civil War heroes -- is about far more than slavery and ALWAYS WAS.

I am very well aware of the issues of contention between the northern states and the southern states leading up to the Civil War, which had far more to do with economic issues in general than slavery in specific, many of which stemmed from the differences of the agrarian economies of the south, and the manufacturing economies of the north. I can list 10 ways from Sunday the many ways the VERY racist Abe Lincoln violated the Constitution, States' rights and individual rights, and that the slaves were used as a weapon for Lincoln's political purposes -- NOT for any humane or compassionate reason. I can show that the south, via Jefferson Davis, tried to resolve issues peacefully and fairly, but Lincoln refused... Lincoln brought this nation to war with its own people. And then the victors wrote the history in the best light for THEM.

I can well explain how the northern union states brutally and savagely attacked unarmed civilians... women and children and slaves and freemen were left to starve after being pillaged and plundered by Union troops -- if they were lucky, and weren't burned out altogether... that every man, woman and child, Black and White, was terrorized and victimized by the Union government -- and ultimately the Union army with the full blessings and backings of the Union government. That the lowly foot soldier fighting for the Confederacy was literally fighting against this northern aggression and bullying against his family and his sovereign state. He was NOT fighting for slavery.

I can further make a case that the same way the Black population was exploited and extorted for political and personal agendas by federal agents and agencies then -- using bullying and intimidation tactics under color of law -- are just like the exploitation and extortion of Black people today.

I can also see the side of those who do not want the slavery industry -- and its proponents -- to be celebrated. It shouldn't be. But that's not the whole truth, and no one's making the effort to tell the whole truth.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 05:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: Irishhaf

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Annee


the facts are that the last veterans of the civil war died in the 1950's, now please let us know which statues were put up to commemorate, and which were put up with racist reasons.

I for one don't have the slightest idea how you can differentiate between the two, so you either agree to censor all history or instead try to use them as teaching moments.



And that has what to do with this topic?

I was a senior in high school when the Civil Rights Act was signed. So?

We can drag out "fringes" until they fall off a cliff.

What part of "built during Jim Crow/Civil Rights era" - - are you missing?

You didn't read the article, did you?


Here I will spell it out for you...


Often in the history of our country it took years, decades even for the bureaucracy to accept honoring someone in any way shape or form.

Almost all the way through the Jim crow era there were still Civil war veterans walking around.


Now I am asking you which ones were racist and which were actual attempts to honor the soldiers?


Can you actually answer my question? (Hint: I know its an impossible question)


You keep throwing out the dates of Jim crow as if that means anything and everything done in that era was done with racist intent... I am asking nay begging for PROOF, that every single statue in the dates that you mentioned were purely and completly done with racist intent.

SPLC does not have any proof they simply stated Jim crow was between this date and this so anything regarding the Confederacy must have racist intent. (FYI: SPLC is such a hack/owned organization at this point it barely rates above Info Wars for truthful statements)


I provided information. Simple.

Is any of this Black and White? NO.

So, what is your point in asking Black and White questions?

I am a progressive who is pro change as society changes and evolves.

American history in general (not just the south) is "Male Gender White-Washed".

I am against vandalism and destruction.

However, the Republican Right made it a law that the Confederate Statues can't be touched. So, how exactly are they supposed to go through legal channels?



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 05:53 PM
link   

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: network dude

Book burning has become popular with the left.




On the net too...know as getting 451...


edit on 21-8-2018 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 06:24 PM
link   
a reply to: Annee


However, the Republican Right made it a law that the Confederate Statues can't be touched. So, how exactly are they supposed to go through legal channels?



Wasnt there something like a Hisotory commision that was set up to handle those situations?


Also when you paint with a wide brush, why cant I... you say everything built during jim crow was racist, while I say there is reasonable doubt.

I would say the person making blanket statements needs to provide evidence.



new topics

top topics



 
38
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join