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Killing uncomfortable history

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posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: network dude

What heroic things did Jefferson Davis achieve? Why is he deserving of numerous statues in his honor?


Whatever your opinion of Jefferson Davis, he was a president and deserves to be remembered for that. Same as the president of any country. There was nothing treasonous about the Confederacy. At that time, it was not illegal to secede from the union and start your own country. War was not declared until the conflict over removing military bases started and even then the idea was controversial.




posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:37 AM
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originally posted by: Annee
At least I did research -- instead of going with emotional drama.

Removing these statues from the "public square" and putting them in a more appropriate place -- does not affect, dismiss, or change history.


The vast majority of them were built between the 1890s and 1950s, which matches up exactly with the era of Jim Crow segregation.” According to the Southern Poverty Law Center’s research, the biggest spike was between 1900 and the 1920s.

In contrast to the earlier memorials that mourned dead soldiers, these monuments tended to glorify leaders of the Confederacy like General Robert E. Lee, former President of the Confederacy Jefferson Davis and General “Thomas Stonewall” Jackson.


www.google.com...


oh give it a rest

A more "appropriate place" ? Who gets to decide that? people so effing fragile they cant stand the sight of a statue without a complete meltdown?

Its still facsim and an attempt to remove and hide history, PERIOD.

Its what every heavy handed culture does when its trying to take over, and suppress another.

Read some history at least , if youre going to try and destroy it



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: Whatthedoctorordered

Atlanta doesn't have a statue celebrating Sherman. They seem to do a pretty good job remembering what he did to them.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:42 AM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: network dude

What heroic things did Jefferson Davis achieve? Why is he deserving of numerous statues in his honor?


Depends on your definition of heroic, if the papers at Rice University are true, Davis stood up and spoke against secession, saying it was the worst possible choice forward.

But the people of his state voted for seccession and he was left with a horrible choice, leave his family, his home and his livlihood or stand with them and hope to navigate a better way forward, as well as honor his oath to represent the people of his state faithfully. That takes a certain level of heroisim...

Also using your criteria, what heroic thing did Franklin do, or Lincoln, Heroisim is not the deciding factor obviously or all those presidents/famous people that never fought in a battle wouldnt have statues scattered all over the country.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: Whatthedoctorordered

A statue of Hitler placed in the "public square" of a Jewish community.

Same thing. Not OK.

Statue of Hitler placed in a WWII museum.

Appropriate.

Why and when these statues were systematically done is significant.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: Irishhaf


That takes a certain level of heroisim...


The same could be said for the Japanese soldiers that attacked Pearl Harbor. Should we have a statue honoring them because their actions are important to American history and in the right context they could be considered heroes?



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:45 AM
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originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Whatthedoctorordered

A statue of Hitler placed in the "public square" of a Jewish community.

Same thing. Not OK.

Statue of Hitler placed in a WWII museum.

Appropriate.

Why and when these statues were systematically done is significant.


Except thats complete BS and a completely false narrative.

I can make up all kinds of fake situations that dont exist too.

Do you really need to come up with completely fake situations to try and reinforce your argument?

Lets stick to facts how bout that.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: Annee


So question, which statues were legit and which were for racist reasons, since the last veterans of that war died in the 1950's.

So according to you a town should not put up a statue or put out a plaque to commemorate their men that went off to war and didn't return, if you don't agree with why they fought?


Am I reading your statements correctly?



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:48 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254


The same could be said for the Japanese soldiers that attacked Pearl Harbor.



I say leave it for the men and women that suffered through the attacks and then the horrible war that followed, many of those men and women forgave their attackers over the years so why should I hold a grudge.

(kinda like how the soldiers that fought in the civil war came to have a measure of respect between each other as the years passed, Ironic in a way that we are now literally in some places fighting over things the soldiers forgave each other over)



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Irishhaf


That takes a certain level of heroisim...


The same could be said for the Japanese soldiers that attacked Pearl Harbor. Should we have a statue honoring them because their actions are important to American history and in the right context they could be considered heroes?


um, you could get hurt reaching that much. We have statues commemorating the heroic activities of US soldiers during that attack. But (not sure if you know this or not) the Japanese were the ones who attacked us, so it's not likely that we would commemorate them, anymore than we would commemorate Hitler.

But in the south, where southerners live, it's entirely possible that a statue for a heroic action might be commemorated, by those who live here and appreciate the heritage and history.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 11:59 AM
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a reply to: network dude

But how will we possibly be able to remember history if we don't have a statue for everything?

That's the argument I see a lot of people making. Last year in Charlottesville, the majority of the people wanted the Confederate statue gone. I saw a lot of people on this site saying they were wrong to do so because it was erasing history. So which is it? We can't remember history without statues or locals should be allowed to commemorate who and what they want?



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 12:04 PM
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History is the story that is told that is accepted as fact by those in control.

I have a huge family, and even though the majority of us are fairly close, the family story changes according who is telling the story and who it impacted.

I just reunited with a cousin that I had not seen or heard from in years. The last time I saw her she was 8 years old and I was 12. A favorite uncle died recently that brought some of the long lost relatives out of hiding. It was a shock to us when we found out the reason why this side of the family dropped off the map. A family conflict that happened over 60 years ago led to one of my aunts leaving town, and she chose to cut off contact with her family.

Now over 60 years later we have over a dozen relatives that we never knew existed, and they had so much hostility towards us because of a story they were told that did not included all the facts. Just what my Aunt wanted her children to know.

So history can be factual and still be distorted, and lead many to believe things that are not factual.

edit on 21-8-2018 by NightSkyeB4Dawn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Annee


So question, which statues were legit and which were for racist reasons, since the last veterans of that war died in the 1950's.

So according to you a town should not put up a statue or put out a plaque to commemorate their men that went off to war and didn't return, if you don't agree with why they fought?


Am I reading your statements correctly?



You're interpreting - - reading into factual info I posted.

Read the article.

Commemorating plaques for soldiers that gave their lives came before the statues. I said nothing about those.

This is about the statues (majority) that were built during the Jim Crow/Civil Rights era.

As far as the statue at the university - - there was a legal push to remove it. Instead $300,000 was spent on security for it.

I do not support vandalism. But, if its that big of a controversy - - maybe the school should have spent more time listening - - then shelling out $300,000.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: Whatthedoctorordered

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Whatthedoctorordered

A statue of Hitler placed in the "public square" of a Jewish community.

Same thing. Not OK.

Statue of Hitler placed in a WWII museum.

Appropriate.

Why and when these statues were systematically done is significant.


Except thats complete BS and a completely false narrative.

I can make up all kinds of fake situations that dont exist too.

Do you really need to come up with completely fake situations to try and reinforce your argument?

Lets stick to facts how bout that.


It is the same exact situation.

Whether you want to see it or not.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Whatthedoctorordered

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Whatthedoctorordered

A statue of Hitler placed in the "public square" of a Jewish community.

Same thing. Not OK.

Statue of Hitler placed in a WWII museum.

Appropriate.

Why and when these statues were systematically done is significant.


Except thats complete BS and a completely false narrative.

I can make up all kinds of fake situations that dont exist too.

Do you really need to come up with completely fake situations to try and reinforce your argument?

Lets stick to facts how bout that.


It is the same exact situation.

Whether you want to see it or not.


Literally no , its not.

You made up a situation that does not exist to try and reinforce your point.

So no its not the same thing, at all. period.

No matter how much you want to do the mental gymnastics to try and make it so.

Sorry thats not how facts or reality works.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: Whatthedoctorordered

Its still facsim and an attempt to remove and hide history, PERIOD.

Its what every heavy handed culture does when its trying to take over, and suppress another.

Read some history at least , if youre going to try and destroy it


Society changes.

Removing a statue does not change or destroy history.

Drama much?



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 12:23 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Whatthedoctorordered

Its still facsim and an attempt to remove and hide history, PERIOD.

Its what every heavy handed culture does when its trying to take over, and suppress another.

Read some history at least , if youre going to try and destroy it


Society changes.

Removing a statue does not change or destroy history.

Drama much?


Thats what the Nazi's did

Didnt you just make a reference to hitler in a negative light?

But now youre ok with doing the same exact thing Hitler and his Nazi's did with history, book burning and monuments?

Make up your mind, are you pro Nazi or anti Nazi, because one of these things is the exact method they used.

Sorry you dont get to play both sides.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 12:24 PM
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originally posted by: Whatthedoctorordered

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Whatthedoctorordered

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Whatthedoctorordered

A statue of Hitler placed in the "public square" of a Jewish community.

Same thing. Not OK.

Statue of Hitler placed in a WWII museum.

Appropriate.

Why and when these statues were systematically done is significant.


Except thats complete BS and a completely false narrative.

I can make up all kinds of fake situations that dont exist too.

Do you really need to come up with completely fake situations to try and reinforce your argument?

Lets stick to facts how bout that.


It is the same exact situation.

Whether you want to see it or not.


Literally no , its not.

You made up a situation that does not exist to try and reinforce your point.

So no its not the same thing, at all. period.

No matter how much you want to do the mental gymnastics to try and make it so.

Sorry thats not how facts or reality works.


Yes it is.



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: Annee



Its ok all of us who have seen your posts know you're pro socialist so the fact that you support fascist tactics is no surprise

Seems you'd be more at home in Venezuela



posted on Aug, 21 2018 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: Annee


the facts are that the last veterans of the civil war died in the 1950's, now please let us know which statues were put up to commemorate, and which were put up with racist reasons.

I for one don't have the slightest idea how you can differentiate between the two, so you either agree to censor all history or instead try to use them as teaching moments.



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