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Originally posted by blowin
Sorry about the double post; I was trying to edit the original to reflect that Amuk had posted the comment.
Originally posted by Souljah
Originally posted by Amuk
Originally posted by Souljah
but who ever these people were,
they had no chance at all against such a beast.
not without any anti-aircraft weapons.
then this apache is toast.
When has war been about a fair fight?
Both sides use the means at their disposal
yes,
i agree with you.
there is only one rule:
NO RULES!
just like street fighting.
first hint you are going to get in the street:
"if you gotta fight, fight DIRTY!"
and both sides are doing just that.
we wont go into this "who started first" crap.
Originally posted by MadGrimbo
Ok, i may be new to ATS, but i think its time we got back to what the thread is all about.
JamesBlonde saw an edited, false acoount of what was happening, and called the insurgents " Turnip farmers".
This has been proved wrong by the full length footage, as if they had been "turnip farmers", there would of been no mad scramble to get into the long bag, containing a tube shaped object.
Plain and simple, if they had been innocent and wanting to live, they would of stuck their hands so high, it would of been visible to the pilots. They did not.
This is the issue here, that some one posted about a video clip that was edited to make the apache crew look bad.
The apache crew, far from being bad, acted in a proffesional manner, calm and efficiently, and did the right thing. There is nothing more dangerous in this world than letting an injuerd terrorist live, as till they are dead, they will be hell bent on making sure you are.
10/10 for the apache pilots.
Originally posted by Amuk
Originally posted by blowin
Sorry about the double post; I was trying to edit the original to reflect that Amuk had posted the comment.
Which is fine, except you edited it to make it seem like my words were Souljahs and his words were mine.
Here is the original before you swapped it around
Originally posted by Souljah
Originally posted by Amuk
Originally posted by Souljah
but who ever these people were,
they had no chance at all against such a beast.
not without any anti-aircraft weapons.
then this apache is toast.
When has war been about a fair fight?
Both sides use the means at their disposal
yes,
i agree with you.
there is only one rule:
NO RULES!
just like street fighting.
first hint you are going to get in the street:
"if you gotta fight, fight DIRTY!"
and both sides are doing just that.
we wont go into this "who started first" crap.
the words you say that he said were said by me and visi-versa
Originally posted by cruzion
At least those dumbasses in the 'copter could spell courageous.
Originally posted by smokinjoe
Originally posted by cruzion
At least those dumbasses in the 'copter could spell courageous.
I like how people fall back on the spelling mistakes when they have no other avenue of rejoinder... a true mark of the ignorant
-Smokinjoe
Originally posted by JamesBlonde
Well I am sure that three men and three soft skinned vehicles warrant that kind of attention in US military logic i.e. killing an ant with a sledgehammer.
It just looks like target practise to me. The voices of the pilots do not mention what the guy buy the tractor is doing nor do they show and sign of stress that fire might be returned. The clip has a routine feel to it.
Originally posted by smokinjoe
Anyway someone said earlier that apache pilots are professional... looking at this I would say they are nothing more than coward dogs... I hope the old addage stands true:
In the same situation would you take out the wounded guy? Really would you?
Originally posted by cruzion
As for the typo, I just thought it ironic that someone would call an Apache pilot/co-pilot a 'dumbass', when they couldn't even check their post for miss-spellings. The most amusing part is, that this person has absolutely no idea of the hard work, dedication, studying and training that it takes to be an Apache pilot. This same guy, who is obviously much, much smarter than your average combat air force pilot, probably has a job pushing paper for $12 an hour, and would crap his pants if he was assaulted on the street,
never mind having armed turnip picking enemy combatants trying to kill him.
Another thing, I'm pretty damn sure if Iraqi pilots had Apache's equiped with the same technology, they would be doing the exact same thing that these guys are. I mean, who wouldn't??
Did you want to see them land the 'copter, get out, take off their helmets, and engage in some hand to hand? Would that vindicate them in your mind?
Perhaps you think it unfair that anyone should have a technological advantage over another adversary? Indeed it is unfair - but the object of war, if you have not already worked this out with your 168 IQ, is to kill the enemy, and not be killed. The Apache video is an excellent example of how to do just that. Wether you are for/against/indefferent to war, there's no denying that that pilot, with that vehicle, with those weapons, that technology, and that information network that backs him up, is not an amazing feat.
Well, actually, you would. Coz your so much smarter than everyone else.
Originally posted by Kidfinger
I was under the impression that the Apache 30mm system could be outfitted to use DP rounds. Am I misinformed?
Originally posted by redpig01
Originally posted by Kidfinger
I was under the impression that the Apache 30mm system could be outfitted to use DP rounds. Am I misinformed?
The Depleted Uranium rounds are way too heavy for the Apache, they just can't pack enough powder behind the round to fire one, The A-10's have DU but the 30mm round is also about 18 inches long , which is a huge bullet, where as the Apaches is only about 9 inches long and about 4 inches of that is bullet, they don't even come in tracer rounds for that matter only a training round which is a lead slug and High Explosive round. An ammo box for these contains 110 rounds coicidentally it weighs 110lbs including the loading trays, so each round weighs approx. 1 lbs, the depleted uranium is considerable heavier, I am not sure of its weight though, but any way even HE rounds move very slowly you can actually see them going down range in FLIR. If you watch that video you can see the "puffs" of smoke that is the HE rounds exploding, they are basically a granade going off, not really like a bullet hitting the ground. I am 100% sure they do not have DU for the AH-64's 30 mm cannon. It is a devasting weapon in itself though, if you can keep it from jamming.
Originally posted by smokinjoe
Notice the bullets seemed to impact slightly left of the cross hair? haha Dumb-arse gunner couldn't even hit that guy on the first try, lucky he was in an armoured apache; out on the field one of those farmers could have stuck a pitch fork up his dumb arse hahahahahahaha !!!!!
Originally posted by intelgurl
I keep reading about the "poor guy on a tractor" and talk about these being farmers.
That "tractor" you are referring to is an artillery peice. The video is in IR and the barrel of the artillery which is quite visible is still very hot, which is why it glows white in the IR video.
Originally posted by redpig01
Originally posted by smokinjoe
Notice the bullets seemed to impact slightly left of the cross hair? haha Dumb-arse gunner couldn't even hit that guy on the first try, lucky he was in an armoured apache; out on the field one of those farmers could have stuck a pitch fork up his dumb arse hahahahahahaha !!!!!
Have you ever had to boresight one of these aircraft?Iits not the easiest process, these aren't like picking up a weapon with fixed sights, the mos 68x (Apache Armament&Electricians) Have to perform a procedure called boresight where all the electronics (FLIR, day side camera's, IHADSS, FCC, LRFD's) have to be aligned with the physical bore of the Cannon, It is a long and pretty hard procedure. You also have wind that affects the rounds. Beside why do you need to be 100% accurate when you have a bullet with a 5-10 meter explosion?
Originally posted by skippytjc
Originally posted by redpig01
Originally posted by Kidfinger
I was under the impression that the Apache 30mm system could be outfitted to use DP rounds. Am I misinformed?
The Depleted Uranium rounds are way too heavy for the Apache, they just can't pack enough powder behind the round to fire one, The A-10's have DU but the 30mm round is also about 18 inches long , which is a huge bullet, where as the Apaches is only about 9 inches long and about 4 inches of that is bullet, they don't even come in tracer rounds for that matter only a training round which is a lead slug and High Explosive round. An ammo box for these contains 110 rounds coicidentally it weighs 110lbs including the loading trays, so each round weighs approx. 1 lbs, the depleted uranium is considerable heavier, I am not sure of its weight though, but any way even HE rounds move very slowly you can actually see them going down range in FLIR. If you watch that video you can see the "puffs" of smoke that is the HE rounds exploding, they are basically a granade going off, not really like a bullet hitting the ground. I am 100% sure they do not have DU for the AH-64's 30 mm cannon. It is a devasting weapon in itself though, if you can keep it from jamming.
You are incorrect. The Apache can use DU rounds:
"The 30mm x 173 GAU-8/A ammunition was among the most effective ammunition used in Operation Desert Storm with proven performance against all targets, including tanks, armored and light vehicles. The 30mm lightweight family of ammunition was developed to optimize the air-to-ground mission of the U.S. Army AH-64 Apache helicopter. This ammunition family is also compatible with all 30mm x 113 gun systems.
The PGU-14/B API Armor Piercing Incendiary round has a lightweight body which contains a sub-calibre high density penetrator of Depleted Uranium (DU). In addition to its penetrating capability DU is a natural pyrophoric material which enhances the incendiary effects. Depleted uranium results from the enriching of natural uranium for use in nuclear reactors. Natural uranium is a slightly radioactive metal that is present in most rocks and soils as well as in many rivers and sea water. Natural uranium consists primarily of a mixture of two isotopes (forms) of uranium, Uranium-235 (U235) and Uranium-238 (U238), in the proportion of about 0.7 and 99.3 percent, respectively. Nuclear reactors require U235 to produce energy, therefore, the natural uranium has to be enriched to obtain the isotope U235 by removing a large part of the U238. Uranium-238 becomes DU, which is 0.7 times as radioactive as natural uranium. . Since DU has a half-life of 4.5 billion years, there is very little decay of those DU materials. When manufactured as 30mm rounds, each DU projectile contains approximately 4,650 grains [0.66 pounds (lbs)] of extruded DU, alloyed with 0.75 weight percent titanium. The projectile is encased in a 0.8 mm-thick aluminum shell as the final DU round. "
www.fas.org...