Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Apache Killings

page: 2
0
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join

posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 01:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by Souljah
just get them before they get you!
pretty simple.


Its not just modern warfare, its been that way since the dawn of time. Just as you cant blame the insurgents for using road side bombs and guerrilla warfare you cant blame the USA for using Apaches.




posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 01:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by JamesBlonde
Actually rules of engagement state that in an open conflict the enemy can only be engaged in bearing the insignia or device of the enemy. Or, failing this, they show itent of hostile action against friendly forces.


as i said before:

in modern warfare there are no more rules of engagement,
no regulations,
no conventions,
no international law,
no RULES at all!

just get them before they get you!
pretty simple.


I actually agree with you to an extent here. But the pilots may have had intel stating who these guys were and what they were doing. Apache's are usually ground support. So there was most likely ground forces nearby who called in that strike. I would bet the pilots knew exactly who they were shooting at.

BTW: How many turnip farmers place markers at night?



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 01:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Depleted uranium probably.

Are apaches using DU rounds? And on foot soldiers?



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 01:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Depleted uranium probably.

Are apaches using DU rounds? And on foot soldiers?


Ive seen stranger
You would poop a bucket of sand if you knew all the types of weaponry deployed and what can actually be used with what. I spent two years on USS Jouett CG 29. Now Decomed. Officially we only carried 50 mm rounds, 'various' missles, and an arse load of M-14's. Officially.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 01:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by Souljah
just get them before they get you!
pretty simple.


Its not just modern warfare, its been that way since the dawn of time. Just as you cant blame the insurgents for using road side bombs and guerrilla warfare you cant blame the USA for using Apaches.

i am not blaming anybody here.
not the u.s. army and not their precious apache attack helicopters,
and not the apache attack helicopter pilots.

if there is one to blame,
its "the warmonger" that wants a war, that needs a war.
then we see images like that, or worse.
and they just gets dirtier and dirtier from century to century.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 01:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by skippytjc
I actually agree with you to an extent here. But the pilots may have had intel stating who these guys were and what they were doing. Apache's are usually ground support. So there was most likely ground forces nearby who called in that strike. I would bet the pilots knew exactly who they were shooting at.

BTW: How many turnip farmers place markers at night?

ofcourse the pilot is not to blame!
he is just following orders,
doing his job,
earning his money!
(no sarcasm here)

pilots were just following orders,
and those who gave them those orders should know what they were getting his men into:
- a farmer slaughter
- a terrorists cell elimination

what really happened we will never know anyway.
for some its apache shooting farmers,
yet others see a diffrent picture.

i see people shooting,
and people running
and people dying.

who is responisble and who is in charge
really makes no diffrence here.
just a matter of opinion.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 01:53 PM
link   


BTW: How many turnip farmers place markers at night?


Farmers have to work odd hours at times in order to complete essential tasks due to time/ weather constraints.

Maybe they work at night because they are unable to work in the daytime due to trigger happy G.I.'s

BTW Rules of engagement are set up to prevent unnecessary bloodshed and destruction in conflicts. Something the US has a record of not caring about too much eg Dresden, Cambodia, Panama etc.
They are good enough for us here in Aussie and most of the rest of the world who want to prevent unneccesary pain. But then again, we are professionals not amatuers.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 02:10 PM
link   
The worst part is, there are fellow citizens here in America that would jump for joy when seeing that video.

It's truly sad. How can anybody be proud of the ability to cause more destruction per square foot than any nation in history?
The ability to destroy ourselves in nothing to be envious about.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 02:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by Kidfinger
You would poop a bucket of sand if you knew all the types of weaponry deployed and what can actually be used with what.

Seems like a waste to use what I'd think is moderately expensive ammo for bags of flesh. Still, I suppose they might not be able to quickly switch between ammo types, and that its better to go out with DU rounds than not.


souljah
its "the warmonger" that wants a war, that needs a war.

Precisely. The fault does belong to the one who created the war, bin ladin.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 02:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
The ability to destroy ourselves in nothing to be envious about.

The ability to destroy the enemy, while perhaps not properly under the domain of pride, is something to be relieved about.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 02:41 PM
link   
JamesBlonde....


Middle of a war zone, and this guy throws some thing down, and trys to play a game of cat and mouse with the Apache...
So he gets vaporised, so what? Military vehicles, military people, in a war, expect to get shot. Simple. Night time, in a war zone planting turnips? please!??


As for using the cannon, well its way less expensive than thehellfire missle, or the ffar pods, and, if you knew any thing about the apache, the gun was designed to combat soft skin vehicles, or ground personell.

IMO, if these were "farmers" or "innocents" they would of dropped to their knees and raised their hnds as soon as they heard helicopters. they didn't, acted very strangely, and paid the price for it.

Farmers? doubt it. Iraqi insurgents? gets my vote. They got what they deserved.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 02:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by Nygdan
[Precisely. The fault does belong to the one who created the war, bin ladin.


Actually it was GWB jr who declared and initiated the war on 'terror' and then proceded to attack weak (but oil rich) countries with spurious connections to the 911 attacks and misleading intelligence excuses on N/B/C weapons. Why didnt the US invade Saudi Arabia???

Those three turnip farmers with their tractors of mass destruction and secret bag of whatever could have been spared.

Please dont get me wrong. I am not personally criticizing the helicopter crew in this vid, perhaps they wers sickened by what they had to do as I am by seeing it. I dont know. They are just doing their jobs. Fine I hope they can sleep at night and I hope they get home safe.

I also understand that there is no fair play in war but to me war is conflict with an identifiable enemy who is actively seeking to destroy your forces and assets or those of your allies or innocent bystanders. The pre-emptive fashion of this conflict reminds me more of police work except instead of detaining suspects hey are summarily executed in the manner of orginizations such as the SS and NKVD.

The Geneva convention states that it is the duty of a combatant, upon recieving an illegal order to refuse that order. In real life things arent that simple and a country with anything to gain from warfare will pay lip service to the Geneva convention and ROE when it suits them. I have no problem with this if it is used to save lives rather than flagrant abuse of these guidelines.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 02:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Especially if they were using DP shells.


The 30 MM is a VERY powerful round. The DUs are used against mainly tanks and such unless I am wrong



Actually the 30mm on the apaches are not similair in any way to an A-10's 30mm, except that they're 30mm around. The apaches 30mm only come in 2 flavors, training and HE (High Explosive) they do not have a depleted uranium round on these. The round is actually slow enough that you can see it moving thru the air, they are not designed for heavy armor like the A-10's, It will do a lot of damage to light armor though. When they impact they have about a 5 meter kill radius and 10 meter damage radius, basically a small grenade. I know that weapon like the back of my hand, since arming and maintaning Apaches is what I did in the Army. Also the Apaches round is only about 9 inches long compared to the A-10 that is about double the legnth.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 02:58 PM
link   
I was under the impression that the Apache 30mm system could be outfitted to use DP rounds. Am I misinformed?



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 03:13 PM
link   

IMO, if these were "farmers" or "innocents" they would of dropped to their knees and raised their hnds as soon as they heard helicopters. they didn't, acted very strangely, and paid the price for it.


Well next time I am subjected to the shock of being shot at I will remember to do just that instead of running for cover. Being shot at is sure to cause provocative actions in people because they will try to survive which sometimes means hiding or fighting back. If everyone who gets behind some cover when shot at was to be executed as an insurgent then the world would be even more lacking in people with common sense.

BTW I apologise, previous posters have pointed out that the cannon in use on the Apache is indeed commonly used against soft targers. I was confused with the GAU-8/A on the A-10.

Another poster mentioned that the people in the vid were going about their nefarious turnip planting in the full awareness of a nearby Apache helicopter. If I am not mistaken this weapon would be effective at ranges where the target would not hear the helicopter so we cant take it for granted that they knew the chopper was their. As for the ranging shots, some may argue that they head those but one would imagine that gunfire isnt such an uncommon sound in Iraq these days so I see no reason why they wouldnt go about their business. I have heard many accounts of people doing this in warzones, supposedly it assists them in maintaining the semblance of a regular lifestyle.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 03:21 PM
link   
James Blonde,
Your thoughts are as alien to me as the seas of Tiatn, but i will say one thing. Join the Army of the country you live in, train hard and long, then go out to a war zone, where the enemy uses Mosques as sniper holes and arms dumps, has no problem with using another fellow man as a walking living bomb, uses road side IED's nearly every day, and, if thats not enough, will kill, main and behead fellow contry men who dare to try and raise their standard of living.

The people are fighting for a defunct regime, they are baathist saddam loyalists hell bent on getting the minority the power back that they once enjoyed under Saddam.
As for the so called Islamic fighters? Syrians, iranians, and Jordanians. All poking their noses into a war thats no business of theirs. They get killed there, fighting for their Islamic brothers, who cares? let them go and get killed. 10 out of 10 for the Apache pilot and gunner.

All your talk of ROE, Geneva convention ect sounds to me like you are a 14 year old who still believes that lifes fair, and war's not dirty.

And, Dresden, its in Germany, and it was bombed by us British. Not the USAAF as it was at the time. bomber harris orderd it, not an American. British.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 03:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by JamesBlonde
I really dont give a damn if he had a ICBM in the bag or if the incident took place on pink pebblecrete.

I just saw footage of a helpless wounded man being gunned down by a cannon made for destroying tanks.

To me it lookes as though the tractor was harrowing. The bag could have contained markers for keeping the tractor straight. Perhaps the guy got caught in them or he thought they could save him. I have never been under intense 30mm fire so I dnt know what went through his mind except a few HE slugs. Perhaps it was a weapon, so what, the point is that there is no evidence in this picture to suggest that these people were a threat before the guns opened up. We can only assume that this operation was directed by intelligence of some kind and given the reliability of US intel forces I would stand by my, not intended to be taken literally (idiots), assumption that these people could be turnip farmers.


That may be what it looks like to you, but I have the full video which I will post if somebody can help me out. The video clearly shows the pickup truck pull up, then two guys hang around the truck very suspiciously, and one of them pulls a RPG out of the bed of the pickup. It is wrapped in a blanket or something, then he runs across the field and puts it behind the tractor. Then he runs back to the other guy and then back like he is not sure what to do. Then the second guy comes running across the field towards the first dude and he gets shredded. As he is getting killed, the first dude starts pulling that RPG out of the blanket. Now if they were turnip farmers
then why would he try to pull an RPG out of a blanket (I am assuming in order to shoot down the APACHE).

If you are somebody who believes that our troops go around murdering innocent farmers in the middle of the night, then you are sorely mistaken. It may happen accidentaly, but I can tell you this. My brother in law is over there right now, and I GARAUNTEE he would never kill an innocent unless it was a major mistake. Do you think our military just goes around murdering innocents??? I mean GIVE ME A F---ING BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!

So if someone wants me to email them the video I have then PM me. Your account needs to be able to recieve larger files.

[edit on 22-2-2005 by javarex]

[edit on 22-2-2005 by javarex]



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 03:31 PM
link   
One question J. How do you know it was an RPG if it was under a blanket?



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 03:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by MadGrimbo

And, Dresden, its in Germany, and it was bombed by us British. Not the USAAF as it was at the time. bomber harris orderd it, not an American. British.


Dresden was bombed by the RAF in 1945 I cant remember the date but I know for a fact that after the RAF bombed it that the US 8th AF bombed Dresden the following day with the intent of killing the Germans emergency services and those attempting to repair the damge. Dresden was a mediaeval city constructed mainly of wood and presented no threat or targets of strategic importance.



posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 03:37 PM
link   
Question, was it a rake? Was he pulling it out (at a frantic pace) to rake the field while his pal was getting shot??? Maybe it was a shoulder fired missile. Or some other type of small arms and not an RPG to be exact. But give me a break, this is IRAQ, not Oklahoma. We are in the middle of an insurgency, and these guys were obviously setting up some sort of ambush. Don't be a moron pal, use your brain. Give me your email address, I will give you the damn video, then you can actually see it. If you still think they are turnip farmers, I will come over and beat you silly

B I T C H






top topics



 
0
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join