It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Speaking of Human Rights

page: 4
16
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 12:10 PM
link   
a reply to: Spiramirabilis

This i cannot argue with.

Problem then is that we already pay....why isnt it enough?




posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 12:17 PM
link   
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

We're humans - we can figure this out. Except when being human means we have to kill the other team

We learn our lessons the hard way seems like doesn't it Tex? Conservatives and liberals (and whatever else we call ourselves) need each other. We all bring something to the table - and the balance is what moves us forward

We'll get there - or die trying :-)

ETA: about paying - we don't manage our money right. You'll get no argument from me on that. But we all have to agree to the same things at the same time in order for us to help those that need help, and for it to feel fair



edit on 8/19/2018 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 12:32 PM
link   
We already have a right to healthcare. You can pick whatever healthcare you want. It will cost money. It’s not free. You can even choose not to have healthcare, but, you also can’t be a burden to the system, so you will have to pay and/or take a tax hit when you do your federal income tax. If you are off the grid and don’t make a paycheck that is automatically taxed by your employer, well you are the freest person of all.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 05:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: MRinder

Ah, selfishness and greed.

Have fun in your splendid isolation. Better hope that you can do absolutely everything you will ever need, by yourself.




That isnt greed. Because it doesnt make someone not greedy to pay taxes.

Charity at gunpoint isnt some kind of moral high ground. Brow beating into charity isnt moral. Taking without even asking is theft and is decidedly immoral.

"Civilization" is us offloading our responsibility for charity onto men with guns. It no longer charity.


True.

But as a society, there is wisdom in ensuring "the needs of the many" are met, despite the charitability or otherwise, of particular individuals.

I'm all for capitalistic advancement for those who strive.

The problem is those who get the wealth and then sequester it off to themselves, preventing further capitalist access to the funds (the "it's mine, I earned it" attitude). Buying and selling for profit doesn't work if hardly anyone has disposable income.

Similarly, overproduction can occur in the struggle for profit (look at Detroit), so it is prudent for a government to spread profitability (which looks like socialism) contrary to pure capitalism.

So any fair government has to be a balance of contradictory factors.

edit on 19/8/2018 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 05:54 PM
link   

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: kaylaluv

There is a right to be armed. All animals have these arms. Bears have claws. Dogs have teeth. Bulls have horns. Humans have the projectile weapon.

Our ability to aim is unique among primate. The motion to throw, again, is unique. Its a species trait that goes back tens of thousands of years. We began with stones, moved to slings, then spears, then the atlatl, then bow and arrow. The projectile weapon is the hallmark of human self defense and hunting, and is analgous to a lions claws and teeth.

There absolutely is a right steeped in natural law for men to possess the latest technology in projectile weaponry. So much so that studies of such is how we date and classify human civilizations.


I know how to build 'nukes and delivery systems. I can also drive a CRISPR kit and could probably really make some deadly stuff. So, by your logic, I have a right to do so?




posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 12:59 AM
link   

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: JoshuaCox

How did they pay for everything before Income Taxes?


There have been taxes for as long as there has been civilisation.


Not income taxes. Not in the US. Do you know when that happened, or perhaps do you not question anything about the "reality" which you are presented by our overlords?


Your question was how were things paid for before Income tax. Consider it answered. Your welcome.



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 03:45 AM
link   

originally posted by: MRinder
These Liberals keep thinking everything is a human right - healthcare, college, sick days - apparently anything they don't want to pay for is a human right. So I declare I have a HUMAN RIGHT to keep every last damn cent I earn. It's mine. I worked for it. Nobody else. Not the government. Not the teet sucking liberals. Nobody but me. What RIGHT does the government have to take anyone's money with force? I have a HUMAN RIGHT to keep what I earned.... every last damn cent. If I want to donate it to pay for someone's college or healthcare or whatever it should be my choice and if I chose not to it should be just fine, because after all it's mine and I earned it. Your money is yours and you earned it. You have a HUMAN RIGHT to keep all of it and spend or give it as you see fit.


so if the govt didn't take any of your money or that or anyone elses, how would they pay for the roads you drive on, or the hospitals that you might find your self in should get sick or in a bad prang etc.

ever wondered if your income is at least in part, derived from social security money injected into the economy via the economic stimulus packages by the federal or stat, whatever level of govt?

by the way; what do you know about how money gets created. Are you familiar with the lies and deceptions the banks engage in every single day? - thought you were.

if people didn't get welfare payment or they reach a point where they are just far too low, has it ever occurred to you the risk of getting mugged might increase by a dozen fold or some such measure?







By the way; got any idea of how money gets created.



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 04:18 AM
link   
a reply to: Azureblue

A point often ignored by people us that their income is dependent on other peoples.

The greater economic stability created by welfare payments and other government spending increases everyone's standard of living,



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 05:34 AM
link   
a reply to: chr0naut

Sure. Smelt the copper to maoe your wires, tyen refime crude oil to insulate them.

When i say i can make a gun....i mean from iron. It may not be the best, but itll fire a ball fast enough to kill.

If i practice i might get good enough to rifle a barrel without blowing my hands off



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 07:17 AM
link   
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The solution would tax the people who can afford to pay such.

Start with the 1%ers and take 50% because nobody on Earth requires multiple billions of $$$$$ to exist or survive.

It's not the middle classes that need to go it's the superrich.

Of course, any attempt to do such would probably bring about chaos before significant change as "They" don't want the status quo to change other than to plan.



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 07:25 AM
link   
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Not where i hail from they don't.

Conservatives made Brexit a reality, guaranteed to sit back and watch that one go down like a lead balloon.

Just a thought but people in both our respective nations do not require charity, they require a proper chance, an adequate safety net, proper jobs with proper pay, and quality of life at least in line with the previous generation.



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 09:00 AM
link   
a reply to: andy06shake

That is a solution provided by someone who hasn't earned large amounts of wealth. I wonder how they feel about that plan?



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 09:07 AM
link   
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Well, the people who control the substantially large amounts of wealth plan is not working, that's a given.

As long as the status quo remains in place i don't imagine they will care one way or the other.

Take away half there apples however and i think we know how they would feel nevermind respond in kind.






edit on 20-8-2018 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 10:15 AM
link   
a reply to: andy06shake

If the solution is effectively to steal from the affluant, how does that encourage additional innovation?

Is there not a smarter way to create equity? The one thing The People control is the system...if we make it so. Of course, if we spend all our time bickering over decisions none of us get to have a role in making, believing the nonsense that our media spews at us as if it is actual truth, im not sure we can all actually be able to make decent decisions.



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 11:21 AM
link   

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
You cannot have a right that compels me to use my equipment and expertise to provide you care free of charge.


LOL! That's not how this works. Doctors still get paid under universal healthcare.



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 12:02 PM
link   
a reply to: LordAhriman

And who pays them?

As a taxpayer, my thoughts are that I pay enough taxes. Figure it out with what is already being gathered.

That said, it still doesn't make it a human right.



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 01:36 PM
link   
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


That isnt greed. Because it doesnt make someone not greedy to pay taxes.

Charity at gunpoint isnt some kind of moral high ground. Brow beating into charity isnt moral. Taking without even asking is theft and is decidedly immoral.

"Civilization" is us offloading our responsibility for charity onto men with guns. It no longer charity.


'cause it bears repeating, as often as necessary. Which is, apparently, oftener than it should be.



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 01:39 PM
link   
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Damn, you're on a roll today!!!

BFFWT. Big Fat Furry Wise Texan!!



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 01:52 PM
link   
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Its how we achieve the equality that's important, that's very true.

But the fact is we could be paddling faster in her direction.

She might just drown before we ever get there, which is quite possibly the plan.

Super-rich do not desire equality simply because they would not be able to exist at the expense of the rest of us, which exactly what they do really.

We don't make very good group decisions, or so it seems.



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 01:54 PM
link   
a reply to: seagull

I think the worst part of this discussion is the retort that someone who's not fond of the way funds are distributed, someone without an open checkbook, is somehow "greedy".

Why is it greedy to want to keep what i create? To determine what I can and cannot distribute to others ensuring adequate provisions for my own first? Why is that wrong?

Notions of greed should evolve as people move into adulthood. As a 2nd grader, its greedy to bring gum for yourself and not everyone else. It seems that in 2018, the same notion of greed (daring to have something that someone else may not have) is being projected into the adult world.

Maybe this is what we get when we galvinize children politically: unsophisticated notions of property rights?

I don't know. But i'll be damned if me paying 20% of my paycheck and refusing to tithe any more is greedy.



new topics

top topics



 
16
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join