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Speaking of Human Rights

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posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 07:31 AM
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originally posted by: MRinder
The real truth is human rights are an illusion. There is no such thing as human rights or animal rights. They are a construct of man's imagination.

If I am wrong, please explain to me why or what gives us our human rights?


True. There is no human right to own a gun, for example. That right is a construct of man.




posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 07:36 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

There is a right to be armed. All animals have these arms. Bears have claws. Dogs have teeth. Bulls have horns. Humans have the projectile weapon.

Our ability to aim is unique among primate. The motion to throw, again, is unique. Its a species trait that goes back tens of thousands of years. We began with stones, moved to slings, then spears, then the atlatl, then bow and arrow. The projectile weapon is the hallmark of human self defense and hunting, and is analgous to a lions claws and teeth.

There absolutely is a right steeped in natural law for men to possess the latest technology in projectile weaponry. So much so that studies of such is how we date and classify human civilizations.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 07:44 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: kaylaluv

There is a right to be armed. All animals have these arms. Bears have claws. Dogs have teeth. Bulls have horns. Humans have the projectile weapons.

Humans have fists to hit with, and feet to kick with.


The projectile weapon is the hallmark of human self defense and hunting, and is analgous to a lions claws and teeth.


No, it isn’t analogous to a lion’s claws and teeth. It is manufactured and not a physical part of our bodies.


There absolutely is a right steeped in natural law for men to possess the latest technology in projectile weaponry.


It’s a right we made up in our society.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 08:14 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: kaylaluv

There is a right to be armed. All animals have these arms. Bears have claws. Dogs have teeth. Bulls have horns. Humans have the projectile weapons.

Humans have fists to hit with, and feet to kick with.


Would humans have survived past the neolithic with only fists and feet?

We don't have minds, which set us apart from the rest of the world? We didn't use those minds to create projectile points, which are today used to classify human culture? Those projectile points aren't what allowed us to hunt and defend against predators 10 times our size?

You oversimplify to the point of hyperbole and ignorance of fact.




No, it isn’t analogous to a lion’s claws and teeth. It is manufactured and not a physical part of our bodies.


Nor is a hermit crabs shell...but you'd not say a hermit crab shouldn't have a shell, now would you?

Again, you oversimplify to the point of hyperbole. Natural law is where the 2nd derives from. Natural derives from the way things were when we were feral prior to civilization.

And natural law disagrees with you.




It’s a right we made up in our society.


No, its a right supported by our society to protect man from civilization.

Prior to central authorities, who kept man from having weapons? Civilization is the tyranny that takes man from what he evolved as, and forces him into something else.

Prior to civilization, man had rights. We can speak, just like a dog can bark. We can defend ourselves using the means that humans use, the same as a hyena. We are allowed to defend our homes the same that a bear can defend its den. Etc, etc. The things we call rights derive from something, and aren't just made up by society.
edit on 8/19/2018 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 08:36 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: JoshuaCox

How did they pay for everything before Income Taxes?


There have been taxes for as long as there has been civilisation.


Not income taxes. Not in the US. Do you know when that happened, or perhaps do you not question anything about the "reality" which you are presented by our overlords?



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 08:38 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan




Would humans have survived past the neolithic with only fists and feet?


We will never know for sure, but we know there are humans who survive today with no manufactured arms. Would we have survived without certain medical advancements?


We don't have minds, which set us apart from the rest of the world? We didn't use those minds to create projectile points, which are today used to classify human culture? Those projectile points aren't what allowed us to hunt and defend against predators 10 times our size?


We also have minds which have created medical advancements that have allowed us to thrive and grow more numerous.


Nor is a hermit crabs shell...but you'd not say a hermit crab shouldn't have a shell, now would you?


There is no natural right to have a hermit’s shell, any more than there is a natural right to shelter for a human.


Again, you oversimplify to the point of hyperbole. Natural law is where the 2nd derives from. Natural derives from the way things were when we were feral prior to civilization.


There are no rights in natural law. It’s a free for all in nature. Rights are a human construct. And if we can construct a right to own a gun, then we can just as easily construct a right to healthcare, or food, or housing, or equal treatment under our laws, etc., etc.




edit on 19-8-2018 by kaylaluv because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 08:42 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: kaylaluv

There is a right to be armed. All animals have these arms. Bears have claws. Dogs have teeth. Bulls have horns. Humans have the projectile weapons.

Humans have fists to hit with, and feet to kick with.


The projectile weapon is the hallmark of human self defense and hunting, and is analgous to a lions claws and teeth.


No, it isn’t analogous to a lion’s claws and teeth. It is manufactured and not a physical part of our bodies.


There absolutely is a right steeped in natural law for men to possess the latest technology in projectile weaponry.


It’s a right we made up in our society.


Your are correct. ALL rights are made up. including gun rights, the right to healthcare etc...



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 08:45 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ClovenSky

What do you mean by bad habits?

If you mean drugs i say legalize the lot introduce quality control and taxation, thus remove the criminal element and use the profits for people who need help. There are linearly 100s of billions to be made there really.



My current belief of bad habits rests primarily on the shoulders of our simple diet. Everyday consumption of food. Then next in importance comes activity level followed closely by and incorporated with our mental structure we have created to interface with this reality. Long way down the list are drugs (illegal .. pharmaceutical ones I group with simple diet .. nasty). Usually those naturally occurring substances that we like to demonize can be both good or bad, depending on how you balance the scales. Those that overdose on drugs usually are actively seeking a confrontation with the grim reaper, as should be their option is they so chose.

Maybe the feel good crowd's insistence on universal health care, provided by the productive and responsible members of society, relates to fear of death? I wonder that people supporting full self accountability and responsibility understand and embrace the simple law of this reality, death. Death comes for us all. Possibly death shouldn't be feared as much as it is today? If you have a certain flavor of ideology, death will eventually be welcomed but never hastened to or encouraged. I almost suspect everything ties in together somehow. Liberalism, free will, conservatism, jealousy, tyranny and morals are probably all related.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 09:02 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

Hmmm, I wonder if we could approach this from a different angle and deviate from natural rights/laws. Maybe we need to honestly consider ourselves and society as a whole. If the feel good crowd wants to make this a better place for everyone involved, we have to figure out why it isn't now.

So what is it, corruption? If corruption were the main driver behind our stagnation on emotional development, what is the biggest source of corruption? Concentrated power in the hands of the few, our government. So you want to encourage more power to this corrupt group? A group that we haven't figured out how to restrain so they are working towards the common good instead of just for themselves?

Why wouldn't you want to take out the corruption so healthcare would be cheaply available to all? Take out the insurance and the red tape. Get the government out of it completely and watch the prices drop. If you were able to use a fraction of your paycheck, even a bimonthly paycheck to simply pay for rendered services, wouldn't that be easier. To reduce the costs to the point where everyone could fully assume responsibility for their own health? Prices that wouldn't need bankruptcy to clear?

Simplicity is the key. Simplicity is the antithesis of corruption. Simplicity and full disclosure every step of the way would leave no room for the vampires to suck nourishment from us.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
We will never know for sure, but we know there are humans who survive today with no manufactured arms. Would we have survived without certain medical advancements?


No, thus medical care isn't a human right.

We are welcome to afford ourselves this privilege...but to pretend its a right isn't correct.

Your statement is a movement of goal posts. First, not owning a gun doesn't mean you don't outsource your threats of violence to a third party (the police). It just means you don't choose to take that responsibility on yourself. Its still guns that give the threat of violence that keeps you from being killed by a random.

Beyond that, my point was that humans had no way to hunt megafauna without weapons. Your answer of "we will never know" is inaccurate...we know. Humans would not have survived the neolithic without projectile weapons.




We also have minds which have created medical advancements that have allowed us to thrive and grow more numerous.


What medical advancements predate civilization? That is where natural law derives from: when man was feral.

The one that i can think of is currently illegal. The people you outsource your violence to, LEO, are the same people our government outsources their violence to. And that is who is keeping that particular right to medical care from being realized.

But no...human kind didn't utilize science in the neolithic. So the fruits of science are not a right. We utilized religion in its place, and you have a right to religion and religious beliefs. In fact, your right to such supercedes the governments right to force medical care on you. It seems we have support that medical care isn't a right, as it takes a backseat to actual rights which derive from actual natural law.




There is no natural right to have a hermit’s shell, any more than there is a natural right to shelter for a human.


Yes there is. Because that is the hermit crabs natural state. Do you understand what we are discussing here? Or are you just kinda making up an understanding so you can discuss it? Rights derive from natural state.

Dogs have a right to bark, too. Because that is there voice, and its their natural state. While we may not have laws forbidding the silencing of dogs, it doesn't mean that they do not have that right. It just means that our construct of civilization has failed to recognize the natural law that gives it authority.



There are no rights in natural law. It’s a free for all in nature. Rights are a human construct. And if we can construct a right to own a gun, then we can just as easily construct a right to healthcare, or food, or housing, or equal treatment under our laws, etc., etc.





Rights are constructed insofar as they are what keeps civilization from trampling man. I said as much in my prior post. The purpose of rights is for civilizaiton to enumerate and recognize that humans, despite the desire of civilization, are still individual human animals at home on this planet.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 09:26 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

There were no guns in the Neolithic period either. We were gatherers before we were hunter/gatherers. We advanced to inventing projectile weapons, and we advanced to inventing ways to heal sickness and wounds.

If projectile weapons are a natural right, then so are the methods to heal sickness and wounds.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It's just caring for our fellow human beings. I'm just pointing out the fact that when Jesus Christ walked among the people he was helping those in need. It should be deep seeded in all human beings to want to help people less fortunate. I believe good out numbers evil in this world.

I would think a majority of us would want to stay on the path of good rather than evil. I mean after all, don't we all get upset seeing innocent people being killed in the world? Loving one another and caring for each other is engraved in humanities soul.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 09:55 AM
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a reply to: WeRpeons

I think we would all be willing to help the less fortunate but taxing to do it kinda gives the impression that we already do our part.

So then we have to ask....why isnt it already enough?



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

Projectile weaopons are used to classify humanity and its cultures. We dont use medicine as such. One is a trait if humans. The other is not.

Projectiles existed prior to the neolithic. Guns are simply a modern projectile made using the basic natural resources available



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 10:34 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: kaylaluv

Projectile weaopons are used to classify humanity and its cultures. We dont use medicine as such. One is a trait if humans. The other is not.

Projectiles existed prior to the neolithic. Guns are simply a modern projectile made using the basic natural resources available


We weren’t born holding projectile weapons. It is not our natural state. Projectile weapons are definitely not the only things we use to classify humanity and its cultures. The development of agriculture and tools for agriculture is an example. The use of medicine is just as much a trait of man as the use of projectile weapons. Neither is a natural trait of animals.

Projectile weapons are used to sustain life. So is the use of medicine. If life is a right (because it IS a natural state), then medicine is just as much of a natural right as projectile weapons.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
If life is a right (because it IS a natural state), then medicine is just as much of a natural right as projectile weapons.


Nobody said we have the right to get free guns. Just to get and have and enjoy them.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

You arent born into your natural state. You cannot feed yourself. Or walk. Or hold you own head up. Or even focus beyond your nose. Its an irrelevant assertion.

But you are able to figure out how to gather natural material to make things.

So make a lab and MRI machine. Give free medicine. Nothing stops you. I can make a firearm amd other projectiles from raw material. Nothing stops me.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Mayne its easier to understand that you cannot have a right that compels another person. You have a right to provide yourself medical care. Pick some herbs, bandage a wound. You cannot have a right that compels me to use my equipment and expertise to provide you care free of charge.

We have a right to do things for ourselves. Thats about it.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 11:52 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

But I want a FREE bazooka, and Cobra Assault Cannon, a Codpiece Revolver, a Gristle Gun and a Thermal Detonator. And a Proton Pack. And I expect you to pay to build them for me. And I expect the Federal Express to handle all the shipping for free too. It's my basic "human right", you're welcome!


edit on 19-8-2018 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 12:07 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv



Projectile weapons are used to sustain life. So is the use of medicine. If life is a right (because it IS a natural state), then medicine is just as much of a natural right as projectile weapons.


I agree. Humans do what humans do. Humans take care of each other

Government is not something we're born with. It's a human inclination and invention. Our natural choice is to protect each other. With medicine or bullets, with food and thinking. Decisions we make as a tribe (large or small) are natural

Healthcare (giving and receiving ) is a natural choice for natural creatures


edit on 8/19/2018 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



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