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"Progress" = Stuck in the Past

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posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 09:32 PM
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a reply to: Annee

So California is the racist state that doesn't teach about any non-white, non-male history?

I got a better idea... rip your own statues down. Then we'll talk.

TheRedneck




posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 11:52 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: toms54

Truth and honesty re: our past history. We should preserve our history not just to honor things we liked but also to learn from things we didn't like. We should not rewrite and erase parts of it in the service of propaganda.

Southern Democrats? Or do you mean white people? All races had slavery. White people were the race that ended slavery - worldwide. Except for some places in Africa.


Oh, I doubt our Confederate history is going to be erased.

Truth and honesty? Actually, I think we're getting a lot closer to that now - - by replacing war "hero" statues with the real heroes of that time.


The statues are memorials. Like gravestones. Put up your own. Don't try to knock mine down.


They can be moved to a museum.

They and what they represent does not need to stare me in the face when I walk through town.


How about the retarded rainbows painted all over the place and plastered on buildings.

Those are actually being removed at a growing pace.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 02:14 AM
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originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: okrian

They are statues of famous historical figures that contributed to the founding of this country. The US would not exist today as the country it is without them. Since you appear to be so disgusted by our past, I'm sure you know of a better country with a history that is more acceptable to you. You should consider going there. And take your friends with you.


Uh huh. Sure dude. This is ridiculous logic. Just because it's in your/our past does not mean it's to be celebrated. Specifically if they were traitors that lost and held screwed up ideals/beliefs. But hey, perhaps while we're at it you can find a country that loves traitors and slave promoters. There are still a few out there! Gimme a break with this who's loves America more crap. You don't have to celebrate poor choices of the past to love our country.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 02:20 AM
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originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Annee

You act as if you believe you are the new slaver and we must all obey you. You tell us what we are allowed to say, what history we are permitted to have, what we must think, etc.

You appear to believe you are intellectually superior and further "progressed" than the rest of us.

Why don't you just erect the statues you prefer and stop trying to dominate our lives? We find you offensive.


Bwaahaa. 'You're oppressing us by tearing down our monuments that celebrate oppression!'.
Jesus dude. This is considered an actual argument?



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 02:53 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Annee

So California is the racist state that doesn't teach about any non-white, non-male history?

I got a better idea... rip your own statues down. Then we'll talk.

TheRedneck


If the history needs to be updated - - then it needs to be updated.

If people weren't recognized because of society prejudices then they need to be.

And those that were erected that really don't deserve it should be removed.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 03:10 AM
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originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Annee

You act as if you believe you are the new slaver and we must all obey you. You tell us what we are allowed to say, what history we are permitted to have, what we must think, etc.

You appear to believe you are intellectually superior and further "progressed" than the rest of us.

Why don't you just erect the statues you prefer and stop trying to dominate our lives? We find you offensive.


Your post doesn't make any sense.

Tread title: "Progress" = Stuck in the Past

I am a progressive. There are many in history who were not recognized because of society "sensibilities" and probably politics/money.

There are also those who got more recognition then they deserved.

Progress is updating those recognitions.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 03:10 AM
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dp
edit on 19-8-2018 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 04:36 AM
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a reply to: Annee


If the history needs to be updated - - then it needs to be updated.

And what gives you the power to decide what should and should not be updated?


If people weren't recognized because of society prejudices then they need to be.

I have no issue with that. Go ahead and commission a statue. I won't oppose you.


And those that were erected that really don't deserve it should be removed.

In whose opinion? Yours? Are you the arbiter of what should and should not be memorialized?

Again, the second you decide you are, and you should determine what gets removed, GET OUT OF MY DAMN CULTURE!

TheRedneck



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 04:40 AM
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originally posted by: okrian

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: okrian

They are statues of famous historical figures that contributed to the founding of this country. The US would not exist today as the country it is without them. Since you appear to be so disgusted by our past, I'm sure you know of a better country with a history that is more acceptable to you. You should consider going there. And take your friends with you.


Uh huh. Sure dude. This is ridiculous logic. Just because it's in your/our past does not mean it's to be celebrated. Specifically if they were traitors that lost and held screwed up ideals/beliefs. But hey, perhaps while we're at it you can find a country that loves traitors and slave promoters. There are still a few out there! Gimme a break with this who's loves America more crap. You don't have to celebrate poor choices of the past to love our country.


These people were a product of their time. Owning slaves is not all they did. The confederate leaders were not traitors. They fought for their homes and families the same as northerners. They are not honored because they promoted slavery. They did participate in the economic system of that time, they didn't invent it out of pure evil as you suggest.

These were enlightened people of their day. even with all of their defects, they still managed to found and build the country we live in today.

Please cite for me an example of another country from that time that has a better history that you approve of.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 06:27 AM
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a reply to: toms54

Actually, the vast number of Southerners of the time did not own slaves. Only the very wealthy could afford them.

Also, one lone Union General, William Tecumseh Sherman, was responsible for many times as many deaths of the slaves than all the Confederate Generals put together. Sherman did not want the slaves following him, so he burned bridges behind his troops, thus stranding the freed slaves in an area where Sherman's forces had already burned the infrastructure and crops to the ground. Many, many slaves starved to death behind his wake of destruction.

TheRedneck



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Annee


If the history needs to be updated - - then it needs to be updated.

And what gives you the power to decide what should and should not be updated?


If people weren't recognized because of society prejudices then they need to be.

I have no issue with that. Go ahead and commission a statue. I won't oppose you.


And those that were erected that really don't deserve it should be removed.

In whose opinion? Yours? Are you the arbiter of what should and should not be memorialized?

Again, the second you decide you are, and you should determine what gets removed, GET OUT OF MY DAMN CULTURE!

TheRedneck


Enough.

You keep making this personal and emotional.

I'm being logical and realistic -- with progressive thought to right the past by bringing the unacknowledged, ignored and slighted to the future (and present).

There are those who may be more deserving then those who were previously chosen.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 10:01 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Annee


If the history needs to be updated - - then it needs to be updated.

And what gives you the power to decide what should and should not be updated?


If people weren't recognized because of society prejudices then they need to be.

I have no issue with that. Go ahead and commission a statue. I won't oppose you.


And those that were erected that really don't deserve it should be removed.

In whose opinion? Yours? Are you the arbiter of what should and should not be memorialized?

Again, the second you decide you are, and you should determine what gets removed, GET OUT OF MY DAMN CULTURE!

TheRedneck


Enough.

You keep making this personal and emotional.

I'm being logical and realistic -- with progressive thought to right the past by bringing the unacknowledged, ignored and slighted to the future (and present).

There are those who may be more deserving then those who were previously chosen.

Honestly, you are being neither logical or realistic.
If you want to change the way history is viewed it can only be done through education. Not by removing that history all together.
Try and erase it and it will be repeated, maybe not exactly the same put close enough.
You can not decide what others should think or feel. It is not your place to do so. Yet in todays society that is exactly what we have.
Take the gender issue for example:
We are told we must conform and use the "persons correct pronoun", if we do not then it is a form of violence against that person.
It is all a load of crap put forward by people who want attention. If that is all they have to worry about, it would seem they need more structure in their lives. Yet, it is pushed on college campuses around the country.

The following is not an insult, just an observation I have had over the years:

Liberals and/or Progressives are Adults who never fully matured mentally.
Quad



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 10:09 AM
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originally posted by: Saiker
Statistically speaking history is destined to repeat itself. There are constants such as hunger, lust for power, jealousy, hatred, among many others that ensure repetition. Thinking of tyrants in history we are destined to wake up one normal day and end it all for one man or woman's pride.

The biggest clear and present danger is the atomic age. Think of the power one human holds in his or her hands. Look what we have done to our home and the beauty we have destroyed in the name of progress. We are barbaric in the way we lead our lives.

In the end thousands of years from now someone or thing will be pondering this exact question.



This is really a beautiful and wise post. It really comes down to our consciousness. As long as we do not have control of the egoic self, as long as it runs amok we will get more of the same, and as someone said in a earlier post, we will probably continue to have more efficient tools to do our bidding.
edit on 19-8-2018 by pointessa because: typo



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 11:12 AM
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a reply to: Quadrivium

America has a white-washed, gender bias, "official" history.

That is just a fact.

Correcting it is progression.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 11:45 AM
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The past makes a convenient ideological ground for either party, it's the interpretation that is different. How that affects policy in the here and now is what matters. The Left is an assemblage of minority and fringe groups banded together and the sole solution they offer is via state control. Their groupthink negates individuality and allows no room for dissent; you can be on board with their whole agenda except say open borders and bam! -you're a Nazi! This alone pretty much guarantees their continued decline in power as they reject more people from their party.

The sirens of Utopian ideals have this fuzzy and unrealistic vision of a world where everyone is equal and no one is in need of anything. All they will do is produce a state where it's minions get those benefits at the expense of everyone else. This is pretty much where government is today, far exceeding pay and benefits available in the free market (or what remains of it). To me this is proof that socialism has already made serious inroads in the United States and the only rational response is to reduce the power and reach of government. If freedom is what matters that is the road we must travel.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 12:01 PM
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I think negativity of the past was a bit strong other than that I agree with the OP.

There is a group of people in this country that believe America never did anything good or positive in the world under any circumstance.
Then you have the group that believe we did some good but if someone wasn't recognized in the past we should focus on just them rather then try to expand our history courses to more broadly encompass the truth of our history.

On the other side we have people that believe America is pure as new fallen snow, and refuse to admit that we have done some heinous things.

Or just like the previous side we have people that only want to focus on certain aspects of history.


then you have the majority of people in the country that are a blend of both sides, but are more interested in living their lives than screaming to the heavens about their perceived injustice.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

I started out as a Republican. Was Republican for 40+ years.

My take: The Right is like a steam roller driving forward - - never looking to the side.

Everryone else (including the "color outside the lines" people) - - are conveninently dumped into the "Catch-All" bucket called Liberal.

There's a lot going on on the "sides".

I'm not gonna live my life with Tunnel Vision.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: Annee


There are times in your posts where it appears to people that you are in favor of censorship now against X because of censorship in the past against Y.

I am sure at least some of that falls in the lost in translation when it comes to text.

Please note I used the word censorship as kind of a catch all for the variety of arguments that appear on ATS on a regular basis as of late.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Annee


There are times in your posts where it appears to people that you are in favor of censorship now against X because of censorship in the past against Y.

I am sure at least some of that falls in the lost in translation when it comes to text.

Please note I used the word censorship as kind of a catch all for the variety of arguments that appear on ATS on a regular basis as of late.





OK. I am Pro.

Look for what can move something in a new or better direction.

I am not in anyway nostalgic. I do not cling to traditions - - "it's always been that way" is not Pro, IMO.

I also try to reduce to the simplistic, without emotion.

Try to view, even the most complex, as if a family of 5. 2 parents (any gender) - 3 kids (various ages) - one child with special needs - - needs help from outside the nucleous.

I also use changes in how elementary schools deal with the social aspect of the "child world".

Try it.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 12:58 PM
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edit on 19-8-2018 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)




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