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Where the US economy went wrong....

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posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I'm not talking about me.




posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 10:54 AM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
I'm not talking about me.


Then stop worrying about what other people do with their money. If they want a 30 year loan suck it up and deal with it.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I forgot how arrogant you are.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 10:56 AM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
I forgot how arrogant you are.


Rather that than a worrying Nancy over what other people do instead of themselves.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Generally discussing ideas about the economy. Its what adults do. We talk about things.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 11:12 AM
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a reply to: toysforadults


You're not talking about macro-economics, or even basic economics, you're whining about what other people do with their money which is personal finance, e.g. taking out 30 year loans.




edit on 19-8-2018 by AugustusMasonicus because: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 11:17 AM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: ClovenSky

So essentially what you pay stays the same the only thing that changes is how many dollars it takes to buy it


Exactly. There could be certain factors that would enable a producer to charge more for their product due to demand, but overall, those type of price distortions pale in comparison to the intentional creation of inflation by printing money/fiat/paper out of thin air. But the majority of commodity price changes is due to the purchasing power of the medium gaining or losing power.

This point isn't towards you, but this monetary function/corruption isn't just impacting the single individual, it is impacting all of us that use that medium for trade. To suggest otherwise is just clouding the issue or indicating a massive misunderstanding if not pure dishonesty. Sometimes it appears those that gain the most of from this fraud and corruption are the greatest supporters of the current systems.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Whining huh?

I'm talking about the value of assets in relation to currency. Its pretty obvious things are inflated beyond their normal value due to the structure of the economy and our view of currency and how its manageed.

Anyway, ill just wait for the other poster whos clearly pointing out one of many flaws from an ocean of flaws of your logic and hopefully we can have a halfway intelligent conversation about currency and value.
edit on 19-8-2018 by toysforadults because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 11:34 AM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
Whining huh?


Yup, as per usual.


I'm talking about the value of assets in relation to currency. Its pretty obvious things are inflated beyond their normal value due to the structure of the economy and our view of currency and how its manageed.


Inflated 'beyond their normal value' because you can't buy one? The free market determines the value, if people don't want real estate then they don't buy it, it's pretty simple supply and demand economics.


Anyway, ill just wait for the other poster whos clearly pointing out one of many flaws from an ocean of flaws of your logic and hopefully we can have a halfway intelligent conversation about currency and value.


Glad you decided to let someone fight your intellectual battle for you, I feel bad having to mansplain things to you.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

No. Just no.

Increasing year over year profit isn't a job killer nor is it the problem with our economy.

Take some time and read about the COGS business model. (cost of goods sold) That will help you understand better how overhead is captured in a per-piece real value quantity as applied to the end product. That, along with factoring in the fully burdened labor rate, will give you a much better understanding of how materials, labor, and overhead affect price and profit.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: ClovenSky

Could not agree more. The value of goods and assets has been decoupled from the amount of work it takes to produce them.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Well shame on you!!

I mean really. How dare you make it work...




posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

Arrogant? Yes, he is. So?

He's also right.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

There is so much misinformation in this, it's astounding.


A buisness no longer just needs to be profitable....

Now it needs to be more profitable than it was last year to make a profit for the investors that invested this year..


That's not how any of this works... First, profitability and growth are two completely different things. You seem to be viewing it as a single entity. Take a look at amazon for an example that blows your inaccurate paradigm into the water. The profit margin of Amazon? less than 4%. Now, granted that is more profitable than it has been (it was losing money as recently as 2014), but their profits are hardly worth shaking a stick at. The value of amazon is the customer base and the speculation that they'll eventually be able to leverage that base into profit.


This creates a vicious cycle where a business is required to constantly earn more than the did the previous year.


More profitable and earning more are not the same thing. Cutting labor costs does nothing to their earning more, it can affect profitability but not earnings.


Well you can’t really make materials cost less...

Somebody needs to take an economics course. Or how about just head on down to costco and compare price per unit to walmart. Now explain how that is possible? And remember, costco pays their employees way more than walmart.


You can’t really make your utilities cost less..


Finally, something accurate. Utility costs are pretty inelastic. However, most places utilize measures that save on utilities. Big warehouse stores turn fewer lights on during the day. They install skylights. They utilize geothermal pumps. So in one aspect you're right, in another, completely wrong.


So what do The ALWAYS cut first??

Labor.


Actually, labor is even more inelastic than utilities so it's usually one of the last things on the chopping block.


n’t get me wrong I’m quite sure access to oodles of investors has created countless jobs, but it has also created a serpent eating its own tail.


It has created no such thing. You just don't understand what you're talking about.


Add all of that together with a heaping shovel full of automation and is it really any suprise wages have stagnated since the 70s????


The stock market has been around far longer than 1970 (NYSE was started in 1817), so how do you resolve that inconsistency in your argument against stock markets?
edit on 19-8-2018 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 04:46 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox
I am not sure I understand your point fully. Do you believe that if companies were not allowed to have investors invest in them via the vehicle of buying stock that companies would be more profitable, and that the entire economy would be more robust? So, you think all companies should be privately held?



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


Original U.S. Constitution

Art. I Sec. 8 Cl. 5
[Congress shall have Power ... ] To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, ...;
Art. I Sec. 10 Cl. 1
[No State shall ...] make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; ...

Note that there is no such prohibition against Congress, or any delegated power to make anything legal tender. Congress was originally understood to have no power to make anything legal tender outside of federal territories, under Art. I Sec. 8 Cl. 17 and Art. IV Sec. 3 Cl. 2, but in 1868 a Supreme Court packed by Pres. Ulysses S. Grant, in the Legal Tender Cases, allowed Congress to make paper currency issued by the U.S. Treasury, backed by gold, legal tender on state territory, a precedent that remains controversial to this day, when courts allow paper currency not backed by anything to be considered "legal tender".


We used to have money that was backed by something. Not fiat at all.

NOW we have money backed by nothing, because of the Federal Reserve Act.

All money is not fiat just because it is controlled by the government.

I would argue that since the Federal Reserve now is in charge of printing money (in return for government bonds) it isn't even government controlled any more.

So no, fiat money is not commodity money.

Which we used to have and now do not... which is the biggest actual concern to our economy.

I suggest you read up on Central Banks.

Or start with the book "The Creature from Jekyl Island".


edit on 19-8-2018 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2018 @ 06:13 AM
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originally posted by: Lumenari
Note that there is no such prohibition against Congress, or any delegated power to make anything legal tender.


Look at you using a source that disproves your claim, thanks, I'll send you a fruit basket for making this easier.


We used to have money that was backed by something. Not fiat at all.

NOW we have money backed by nothing, because of the Federal Reserve Act.

All money is not fiat just because it is controlled by the government.


Yeah, it is, because it was a Federal or State specie, therefore, by definition, it was fiat. It's value was set and controlled by someone other than the recipient.



So no, fiat money is not commodity money.


Commodity money is different than fiat money, however your initial quote that I replied to said 'fait currency'. Although commodity money can also be fiat as its value can set by the government, just like it was for ours.


I suggest you read up on Central Banks.

Or start with the book "The Creature from Jekyl Island".


I suggest you read up on the definitions of the words you're using since you don't seem to know precisely what they are.




edit on 20-8-2018 by AugustusMasonicus because: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn



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