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Where the US economy went wrong....

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posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 04:54 AM
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a reply to: stormcell
A) BWAHAHAHA LIKE TRUMP IS DOING ANYTHING that hurts billionaires!!

That is hilarious.


B) It wouldn’t help..

Even yearly reports or payoffs is too short of a time period..

A yearly report wil still make cheap labor LOOK better on the bottom line.

A report/payout every decade might work. That might be a large enough time frame for more skilled workers to really show their benefits in increased productivity and show the savings from a lack of turnover , theft and other training costs.




posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 07:10 AM
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originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: JoshuaCox


I definitely agree that the stock market is a rigged game that is out of touch with main street. It becomes where the company's stock becomes just as important a product as what it actually produces. There is no sense anymore to stock prices the fundamentals of a company don't matter anymore as people only invest on hype.


People invest in what they believe in. It's kind of a fiat value, much like the American dollar.



posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 07:59 AM
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The OP makes some strong points, but i would like to point out a few of my own. I am a business owner and travel throughout the lower 48 frequently. Every client i service is having problems finding productive people. For example, he has a paint finisher whom will work 3 days a week and lay out 2. He has put in now hiring ads but no one applies. He pays above average according to the area.

The upcoming and current working generation has drastically reduced productive output to the point wages are stagnating. Take for example an employee 20 years ago produced 10 widgets a week whereas an employee today may only provide 8 a week.

Supply and demand in the free market will alway dictate growth, unemployment and inflation short of governmental interference. The American work ethic is the next downturn in our economy. Without productivity nothing is made.



posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 08:01 AM
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originally posted by: Lumenari
A fiat currency is designed to take all real wealth and property from the citizenry and transfer it to the owner of the currency.


All currency is fiat, you want to go back to the barter system?



posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 12:19 PM
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So for everyone claiming stock and bond investments are the way to make money, where does that money come from? Is it a zero sum game? When you make money through higher stock prices or dividend payments, does someone else lose that amount on their personal investments?

If that doesn't happen, then it is a scam. Can you verify the gains come from creating something through manufacturing raw materials into a more desired object? Are you growing products or mining products for that material gain?

If not, then where does that money come from? Could it be similar to gambling? Is that wrong? Does it create inflation because money is being created out of thin air?

Lets say we had an economy where fiat wasn't being created out of thin air. Say you had an exact $1,000 for that economy. So for every dollar you gained, it would be lost somewhere else. Would these wonderful investment vehicles still exist in that environment?



posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 01:36 PM
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originally posted by: ClovenSky
Say you had an exact $1,000 for that economy.


That economy would experience hyper-inflation from the outset.



posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 01:44 PM
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the stock market is a double edged sword where it's both beneficial and destructive to society

it does create an incentive for predatory policies within companies and enable people who have the wealth to manipulate things from behind the scenes with leverage it also benefits people who know how to use it

overall I think what it needs is an overhaul not to be done away with



posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: Saiker

wages are not stagnating because people don't want to work that's not true AT ALL

wages are determined by supply and demand, if people were seriously hurting that much for employees they raise wages to attract the talent they need

if you're friends can't attract employees they don't pay enough for the current market



posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Lumenari
A fiat currency is designed to take all real wealth and property from the citizenry and transfer it to the owner of the currency.


All currency is fiat, you want to go back to the barter system?


Not true at all.. I'm surprised you didn't know that.



Fiat Currency; Common type of currency issued by official order, and whose value is based on the issuing authority's guarantee to pay the stated (face) amount on demand, and not on any intrinsic worth or extrinsic backing.


We as a country started with money backed by gold or silver. It is in our Constitution.

Then a Progressive (FDR) fixed that.


On June 5, 1933, the United States went off the gold standard, a monetary system in which currency is backed by gold, when Congress enacted a joint resolution nullifying the right of creditors to demand payment in gold. The United States had been on a gold standard since 1879, except for an embargo on gold exports during World War I, but bank failures during the Great Depression of the 1930s frightened the public into hoarding gold, making the policy untenable.

Soon after taking office in March 1933, Roosevelt declared a nationwide bank moratorium in order to prevent a run on the banks by consumers lacking confidence in the economy. He also forbade banks to pay out gold or to export it. According to Keynesian economic theory, one of the best ways to fight off an economic downturn is to inflate the money supply. And increasing the amount of gold held by the Federal Reserve would in turn increase its power to inflate the money supply. Facing similar pressures, Britain had dropped the gold standard in 1931, and Roosevelt had taken note.

On April 5, 1933, Roosevelt ordered all gold coins and gold certificates in denominations of more than $100 turned in for other money. It required all persons to deliver all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve by May 1 for the set price of $20.67 per ounce. By May 10, the government had taken in $300 million of gold coin and $470 million of gold certificates. Two months later, a joint resolution of Congress abrogated the gold clauses in many public and private obligations that required the debtor to repay the creditor in gold dollars of the same weight and fineness as those borrowed. In 1934, the government price of gold was increased to $35 per ounce, effectively increasing the gold on the Federal Reserve’s balance sheets by 69 percent. This increase in assets allowed the Federal Reserve to further inflate the money supply.


So no... all money is not fiat. All a fiat currency does is, by inflation, takes the countries actual wealth and property and transfers it to the owner of the fiat currency.

Which in our case is the Federal Reserve, which is a privately-traded company that is neither Federal, or a Reserve.

Our money now says Federal Reserve Note.

It is backed by nothing.




posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 03:42 PM
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Corporate personhood was the beginning of the end, and then the Fed, but not for the reason conservatives think. They hate the fed because it prevents business people from completely banktupting everyone to enrich themselves. The actual problems with the fed is paying interest to print our money which the government could do itself.



posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 04:09 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ClovenSky
Say you had an exact $1,000 for that economy.


That economy would experience hyper-inflation from the outset.


I apologize for my ignorance, but could you explain that please?

I had envisioned deflation as the population and real products increase. If that set amount of money was servicing a growing customer base with a larger set physical products created over time, things would need to get cheaper for that money to work. If the product base and population stayed the same, so should the value of the held money.

I can understand the laws of supply and demand where if a product gained popularity with the same scarcity, the producer could charge more for that item, but then the demand would fall for other items as there wouldn't be enough money left in circulation to purchase it. The less in demand item would either sit on the shelves or decrease in price so people could purchase it with the remaining money.

Just trying to understand.



posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: CB328
Corporate personhood was the beginning of the end, and then the Fed, but not for the reason conservatives think. They hate the fed because it prevents business people from completely banktupting everyone to enrich themselves. The actual problems with the fed is paying interest to print our money which the government could do itself.

Love that you assume to know what people think...



posted on Aug, 18 2018 @ 04:14 PM
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originally posted by: CB328
Corporate personhood was the beginning of the end, and then the Fed, but not for the reason conservatives think. They hate the fed because it prevents business people from completely banktupting everyone to enrich themselves. The actual problems with the fed is paying interest to print our money which the government could do itself.


So you know nothing about the Federal Reserve, conservatives in general or basic economics at all.

So keep voting liberal to fix the things that liberal progressives made in the first place.

The Citizen's United case, for instance was in response to the 6 lawsuits against Hillary Clinton when she was Secretary of State.

The Federal Reserve Act? Written by rich white Democrats, put into place by a progressive President.

I often wonder... why do you hate large corporations so much when they are the ones that run the DNC?


edit on 18-8-2018 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 08:30 AM
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originally posted by: Lumenari
Not true at all.. I'm surprised you didn't know that.


Actually very true, you should have known that.


Fiat money is currency which derives its value from government regulation or law. The term derives from the Latin fiat ("let it be done", "it shall be"). It differs from commodity money and representative money.






We as a country started with money backed by gold or silver. It is in our Constitution.



No, it isn't, I'd ask you for a source but you wont have one.


So no... all money is not fiat.


All money is regulated by the government, therefore it is fiat.

You are referring to commodity money, which is still fiat as the intrinsic price is set at the governmental level.





edit on 19-8-2018 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 08:32 AM
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originally posted by: ClovenSky
I apologize for my ignorance, but could you explain that please?


If you have an economy with a fixed supply of money than there is no money growth which causes inflation as each unit of money becomes more and more expensive to obtain.



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 09:16 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

So if every unit of money becomes more and more expensive to obtain, would you agree that its purchasing power increases in line? If its purchasing power increases it takes less of it to purchase a good. Wouldn't the price of said good go down? So if the population doubles and the unit of money is more expensive to obtain its value goes up. A $1.00 now takes double the expense to obtain, wouldn't that mean that realistically $.50 would take the place of $1.00? Isn't that deflation?

Lets look at inflation then. The opposite. If $1.00 is less expensive to obtain in the future, wouldn't that mean the purchasing power of that unit also decreases. If that basket of goods that was purchased with $1.00, now takes $2.00 to purchase, isn't that inflation?

I know there are nice little discussions out there on price inflation vs monetary inflation and they are separate beasts, but they both represent the same thing, creating money/fiat out of thin air.

Are you a proponent of inflation?



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: ClovenSky
So if every unit of money becomes more and more expensive to obtain, would you agree that its purchasing power increases in line? If its purchasing power increases it takes less of it to purchase a good. Wouldn't the price of said good go down? So if the population doubles and the unit of money is more expensive to obtain its value goes up. A $1.00 now takes double the expense to obtain, wouldn't that mean that realistically $.50 would take the place of $1.00? Isn't that deflation?


Your paper example is not practical in the real world as people tend to hoard money and this does not allow for lending which grows the economy. This also leads to falling wages as currency purchasing power increases.


Are you a proponent of inflation?


Yes, mild inflation is good for the economy.





edit on 19-8-2018 by AugustusMasonicus because: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: ClovenSky

So essentially what you pay stays the same the only thing that changes is how many dollars it takes to buy it



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

What's good for the economy is reasonable prices

Like having to work for 30 years to buy a house, is that reasonable?

How about 30+ yeaes for just an education?

If your money was actually tied to a really asset would you think that was reasonable?



posted on Aug, 19 2018 @ 10:05 AM
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a reply to: toysforadults


Nobody makes you take out a 30 year loan, stop blaming your poor financial decisions on others.




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