350 Times the Pay for only 50% More Work

a reply to: Puppylove

Money is a requirement for basic living.

Again, fine. If, and I am basing this on the fact that your chose to start your post with that statement, money is that important to you, you can go get it. So can anyone else. Start a business (I started one of mine with $500), sub-contract your time to a company, improve your education, learn a skill, invent something, or just figure out what service people want that isn't available, or isn't easily available. There are plenty of ways to make money other than working 9 to 5 for a big company.

I know some retired people who work for almost nothing money-wise... they like getting out of the house and having something to do. It ain't always about the money. Money is easy to get. Just do something productive.

What's hard to get is money for not doing anything productive, and that's what this thread is about... wanting the government to make sure you get money because you don't want to do anything productive. No one owes anyone anything for simply being alive. Whoever told you that lied.

doobydoll has made an excellent point: stop the illegal flow of immigrants and you'll see working conditions improve and wages rise. I'll add, educate people in basic business practices and you'll see the same thing. Quit trying to rely on the kindness of strangers; that only works in fiction novels. Reliance on oneself works in reality. It did for me, twice, when I was down and out.

TheRedneck

a reply to: doobydoll

I have had wealth, was stupid with it and lost the lot. 'A fool and his money are soon parted' and all that.

I'll admit to doing that, many many years ago when I first entered the 'real' job market (as opposed to hauling hay and mowing yards). It's amazing how much money I simply frittered away, and to be honest I would have gotten rid of a lot more had reality not jumped up and slapped me across the jowls when it did.

We live; we learn.

All I have now is my wonderful family. They are priceless and are all I need in life. I couldn't live without them, and wouldn't want to.

True happiness lies that way, my friend. Congratulations on finding it.

You know, I have a friend I have known all my life. We used to hang together when we were young; if you saw one of us, the other one was close by. I was at his house recently while he was having a hard time (his brother, another friend of mine, died recently, far too young), and realized some sobering things about my friend.

While I was interested in staying close to home and taking care of my family, spending time with my wife, and always thinking about my kids, he was busy getting that good factory job with the seniority and job security. While I was pursuing my education, he was joining the Masons because that's where the 'successful' people were. Now, as we near our golden years, I have a marriage that will turn 31 in a few weeks, two grown kids who are making their own way in life, and the satisfaction that my mother's golden years were spent with me and my wife by her side caring for her and doing what we could to keep her healthy, happy, and give her a dignified life. I live in her house, which my Dad built with his own hands, and I have hope for my future.

He has been married and divorced three times, has one natural child and two adopted children who he says never come to see him, and plenty of money. He is jealous of me... something I can't quite understand. He has everything the world can offer. He built his own shop after I built mine... three times the size! Mine is used, it's my man-cave, my retreat, my work, and my play. He rarely goes in his.

I love the man like a brother, but he made his decision and got what he decided to spend his life pursuing. As did I. Now it seems I have much more happiness with my fruits than he does. Oh, money gets tight sometimes, but we always manage somehow. Yeah, it sucks when the ticker gets wonky, but it hasn't stopped ticking. He goes to work, comes home, and sits drinking and watching movies while he cries in his beer all alone. I really feel sorry for him, and wish I could give him some of my happiness.

I wonder how many who are crying over making more, more, more money will someday find themselves coming home and drinking and watching movies while they cry in their beer all alone?

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: TheRedneck

Money is a requirement for basic living. So unfortunately everyone has to worry about money to some degree. I'm a firm believer of money isn't everything. Up to a point however it's a necessity rather than a want. More is expected to make basic needs on the individuals of society than is reasonable. If those # jobs provided a reasonably financially secure living we wouldn't be having this discussion. As is, they don't even provide basic needs.

Very true.

The lives of low-income families are far from secure. They have to claim top-up benefits to survive. They can never even hope to own their own home. They have to visit foodbanks regularly. Struggle to meet crippling rent payments, and many people being thrown onto the streets. All they hear is 'get a better paid job' or 'work more jobs'.

The thing is there are no better paid jobs for low-skilled workers, it's all 'minimum pay' and the taxpayer will have to pay the rest in benefits. Acquiring new/better skills costs a lot of money, and if you got 2 or more jobs where is the time for learning new skills? If you got a couple kids there is often no spare money anyway even if you had more than one job.

And it's no good some people saying 'don't have kids if you can't afford them', it's the nature of life on Earth that all creatures breed. Can't stop nature.

a reply to: TheRedneck


That's what i mean about money, it cannot make a person happy. How many wealthy people still chase that next £/$? No matter how much they have they are always unfulfilled in their lives, leaving them wanting and accumulating more of what will never be enough - money.

My sister's husband is a workaholic. She doesn't work. He earns a fortune, they want for nothing, massive house paid off, a brand new Mercedes each. They have twin boys that go to a very expensive private school. But he's never at home. My sister is like a single parent and i know she's not happy in life even though she wants for nothing. I spent a couple weeks with her and the twins recently and i noticed she drinks more than i thought she did, and she's gained a lot of weight because i think she's comfort eating. There's something missing in her life that she's filling with food and booze. She's unhappy.

They have so much money but none of it can buy them happiness.

So much for having lots of money, eh?

a reply to: DBCowboy

All I can say is "Amen, Brother!"

You can't walk in off the street and earn what the CEO does. The compensation they get isn't just for the "work" they do, it is for the responsibility they have as well. Also, why would a CEO take the job, if they could get better compensation elsewhere?

a reply to: doobydoll

Yeah, booze and food won't ever fill that hole. Happiness is success, and success is:

The ongoing achievement of worthwhile, personal, self-determined goals.

Success isn't measured in dollars. It's not a destination that can be figured on a spreadsheet. It's a journey of betterment. But look back at a lot of the responses on this thread. They're about about a destination, a single goal that is not personal because it involves making other people do things, and not self-determined because the people wanting it really want happiness, not money. Others have told them they need money to be happy, because those others want them chasing the dollar so they'll achieve their goals.

I have projects being researched right now that could easily top that $1 B mark in sales revenue. But I meant what I said earlier: if this goes through... if there is even a serious push for this to go through... I will not manufacture them. I would instead sell the ideas for less to another company or a government, and if they want to bury them, so be it. I'm not going to spend my time and energy making something that people are intent on taking from me before it even exists. It's not even the 40% that bothers me... it is the principle that others can simply take my hard-earned work, my creations, because they think it's somehow 'fair.'

I don't need... heck, I would never be able to spend... $1 B. It would be nice to set up an annuity to provide me with a more comfortable living... maybe a nice truck, some better equipment to work with. But after that, I would likely give it away as scholarships or charity or something. But the very idea that so many would simply take it from me because they want it... nope, I'll make do with what I have. The money just ain't worth it.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yep.

Not only that a skilled peon makes that much for his boss, and he doesn't like something...you could call them an idiot to there face, or say on going to your competitor, and will be youe magical genie at work for a while.

It a very high risk/reward strategy that can take years before a CEO could enjoy themselves to the point they have the resources or technology to leave on auto mode. I think it on average, five years before they could do so. Which is why companies taken over by a dynasty or someone whose just want money an doesn't considered the technicalities usually fall on there faces very fast...they just don't have that edge.

Also, like you said for them to restart at square one all over again would almost be considered impossible to rebound.

It really depends on the head honcho, whether more money goes into the company to be more productive an respectable to grow or stabilize, to just lining up there pockets where as quality an a lack of morale comes. I've seen it happen in previous job, they didnt want to pay more, and # just gets sloppy, and no one will care.

Scary world.

originally posted by: Jason79
You could always open your own business, pay yourself less money than your employees and be the change you want to see.

Luckily were already seeing this at the head of the country where trump takes on 1 dollar a year. Lead by example.

originally posted by: jidnum
CEOs have a different responsibility and skill set than those below them. Some have to be great public speakers, some make big decisions so I do not disagree with them making a ton of money. Where the flaw is imo is when companies tell workers they don't have enough money for raises or give people tiny raises that make no significant impact to their finances but had enough money to give a CEO millions in bonuses and a huge pay raise. That is the only thing I disagree about.

With about 90%+ of America that work for small businesses there is no CEO, no board of directors, so I'm not sure what you are talking about... When we do look at a big company like Boeing, the CEO makes about 4 million with 10 plus million in stock options IF the company does well. Many would say WTH that is too much and they should give most of that to the workers. If the CEO said I will give ALL my income to the workers it would give each worker about 4c per hour raise, so when someone says give everyone a pay raise instead I don't think they have a clue to what that means.

Small

Over 99 percent of employing organizations are small businesses and more than 95 percent of these businesses have fewer than 10 employees. The reality is that most Americans are employed by a very small business that has little in common with the tiny sliver of the business demographic represented by corporate America.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Exactly. When people were railing on the waltons for making tons off the backs of their workers I did the math. If you confiscated every ounce of profit, they could raise wages by ~$1/hr. Not mass exploitation by any means. Furthermore, if you did that, you'd cost a lot more jobs and all semblance of job security. I'd be willing to bet a large majority of walmart workers would prefer the job security over the $1/hr raise.

originally posted by: Dfairlite


Exactly. When people were railing on the waltons for making tons off the backs of their workers I did the math. If you confiscated every ounce of profit, they could raise wages by ~$1/hr. Not mass exploitation by any means. Furthermore, if you did that, you'd cost a lot more jobs and all semblance of job security. I'd be willing to bet a large majority of walmart workers would prefer the job security over the $1/hr raise.

Walmart's 2017 revenue was around 500 million, profit was 127 million. If the Waltons said we are going for zero profit AND will put 100 million of our own money into pay every year it would give all their employees 5c an hour raise...lol

If people feel somehow the rich is holding them back by making too much and so is taking away from themselves they are smoking a pipe dream.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Walmart's stockholders aren't exactly getting wealthy either. I checked out their numbers.

Stock price is showing $95.67 per share. Earnings per share are showing $1.74, for a return of about 1.8%. I am assuming that is quarterly, so I adjusted it for annual return, compounded quarterly, and got about 7.5% return.

Wow.

If someone wanted a secure stock and had 30 years in an IRA to accumulate a retirement, that might be OK. Walmart is secure. But if someone wants to invest, which is usually more of a 5 year or less proposition, there is no way in Hades! Dollar General, by comparison costs about the same ($107.27) but they return $6.00 per share... that's 5.6% quarterly, or 24.3% per year. 25% is a decent return in business investing. 7.5% is not. There is too much risk.

Most of these large corporations that people think are ripping the system off, are "mature" companies, like Walmart. They have nowhere left to grow. There's a Walmart in every town of any size in the United States, sometimes several. They dominate the brick-and-mortar retail market. They even have expanded into other countries. They really have nowhere left to build a store that wouldn't just pull business from another Walmart. That means they can't make the big bucks any more except through volume, because they have nothing left to invest in, at least in their field. And the result is that they can't handle the big pay raises most people want without raising their prices, which means less sales, which means less jobs. A pay raise to an ex-Walmart employee's pay means nothing. Pay raises only affect those who have a job.

TheRedneck