Was mankind meant to procreat, at first?

Sex is not a sin...it was going strong well before the so called snake in Eden...I think the sin was eating of the tree of knowledge, "knowing".... I think there could of been a translation error there. Mankind was not meant to "procreate" in the beginning....
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"ORIGINAL SIN? IT WASN'T SEX!

The old testament tells that as long as Adam & Eve obeyed and stayed at a servitude level, all things would be provided for them. there was certain knowledge they were not to try and obtain. Those forbidden forms of knowledge are symbolized in the story as as two trees, the tree of knowledge and the tree of life. The "Tree of Knowledge" well ever notice how throughout the bible the word "knowing" is used for sexual activity; and Adam "knew" his wife Eve and begat....man was not originally meant to procreate (I can hear you saying, "oh no the bible says"....I KNOW what the current version of the bible says)! The "Tree Of Life" represents the spiritual side. Human kind was also not meant to achieve the spirituality of his creator, the immortality of reincarnation of the spirit:

"And the lord said, Look, the man has become as one of us, knowing good from evil: and now, what if he put forth his hand, and takes also from the Tree Of Life, and eats, and lives forever?"

Please tell me that I didn't just read that quote say, man was not meant to procreate.

Yes you did.....I think in the beginning, speaking of in the Garden Of Eden...they were not menat to procreate!

If you believe you were created by "God" you must believe that he/she/it created the hormones which drive humans to procreate. So from a religious perspective, either a supreme infallible creator made a glaring mistake, or humans are meant to procreate.

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad
If you believe you were created by "God"

No...I believe in God, but not like Christians do, I believe the bible holds truths, but not the way Christians do...I believe mankind was genetically manipulated from an already evolving species.....
remember that truth is usually stranger than ...

So with the apple story could it not be said that the lesson of The Bible is that the price on knowlege is the loss of innocence? And could this not be seen as a truism?

Jack

LadyV - I'm not quite sure what your point is....?

"16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. "

I would say yes, they did "procreat" but in a different way.

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
LadyV - I'm not quite sure what your point is....?

mistranslations, false hoods, things not exactly hte way many see it....

Originally posted by LadyV
Yes you did.....I think in the beginning, speaking of in the Garden Of Eden...they were not menat to procreate!

At least you qulaify your statements with, I think, or I believe.

I can accept belief, even if I disagree.

I agree with lady V . They only copulated after eating the fruit and 'lived forever'.

Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad
If you believe you were created by "God"

No...I believe in God, but not like Christians do,
I believe the bible holds truths, but not the way Christians do...

I believe mankind was genetically manipulated from an already evolving species.....
remember that truth is usually stranger than ...

yes indeed, ( underlined statement) one then two, evolutionary humans were
most likely engineered into the Biblical Gods' "Adamic Man" and confined in the bio-sphere refered to as "Garden-of-Eden".

but i don't think the 'knowledge of good-evil' was sex or apples...it was what naturalists and anthropologists studying apes & monkeys have recently reported to have witnessed....stealing, deciet & trickery to gain more food or perserve food for their self(as examples) without the normal sharing & community mindedness naturally found in those families or groups of apes or monkeys.
the tool use and innovation for newer tools along with primitive communication were stepping-stones to the inevitable 'knowledge'~~
compare the Adamic-man account in Genesis...see how Adam provides for himself (adeptness & tool use) then gives names to all the animals (communication)....and then....learns deceit, lying, etc , self/ego gratification etc

BTW, if the Biblical GenesisGod 'created' AdamicMan and deemed him 'Good'
but, then realized that the AdamicMan needed a 'companion'...[just like ALL the other animals GenesisGod created prior to Adam&Eve] then the GenesisGod was fallable and did not know that Cain would slay Able or that from David would come the Christ...which was supposed to have been known from "the Foundation of the World" [as stated in the Bible & Talmud]


OOPS, strike everything after the BTW,

Originally posted by DrHoracid
"16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. "

I would say yes, they did "procreat" but in a different way.

Yeah another way of men control over women using the references of God, since the beginning of monotheistic religion men has wanted to step, manipulate and control women.

So typical for Dr. here to used that man made passage to remind women of how the are under control.

Yeah Dr. perhaps the problem here is that women are not mean to be control and rule over.

My LadyV, you have gaven a metaphysical conotation where it does not simply exist. I believe this simply is a matter of Linguistics coupled with mundane allegory: "Knowing" Eve as Adam did, has a very mediocre sexual connotation: this simply met that Adam was sexualy active with Eve.

Deep

Well I think the Garden of Eden story was just a metaphore and didnt really happen Ill try to explain.

First its not the tree of knowledge, it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Most ppl make this mistake.
Adam and Eve most likely had plenty of sex in Eden, just there were no children that came out of it. Then when they left Eden they were then able to die and when God saw this he made it so that sex could then make more ppl.

You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die. (Genesis 2:16, 17) we know the rest, but i find this fascinating, It is the beginning of the founding principle of the Universe ; the laws of opposites or opposing forces. Light and Dark, good and Bad, male and female, Good and Evil.
and, it is differentiating between Good and Evil that concerns God.


the serpent;
There are two sides to every story. The serpent is symbolic of wisdom. The symbol for a medical practitioner is a staff with two snakes intertwined. In the Bible Jesus says, Be wise as serpents (Matthew 10:16). When given a blessing by his father, Israel, Dan is told that his tribe would judge and that Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path... (Genesis 49:17). There are many other examples in other cultures of the snake representing knowledge and wisdom. These examples show that the snake is symbolic of the intellect. This is confusing, on one hand the serpent is representative of seduction, another it is intellect.


Never thought about Eden being abstinent relationship. interesting perspective.

In the Bible it says, and this is not a direct quote:

God took of Adams ribs and made a woman and put her there in the Garden and binded them through his love together called marriage.

Now, he says in Proverbs and explain that sex within marriage is meant to be a gift from God.

Now you've been sidetracked with two completely different words and another action. Lust and Sex. Lusting and sex outside of marriage is foolish and sinful to God.

These are broken down, in not so many word uotes of the bible.

For absolute reference read in Genesis, Proverbs, and Song of Songs.

I think that "orginally" God did intend for humans to procreate,even though intially it seems that he did not expect that this was going to happen. But he is God almighty he would have seen this "trouble" with the humans before he even made Adam. So really I think that it is just some plan for God to create humanity in a way that sin can be involved so that we can see life through his eyes and try to enjoy what he has created for us. I know now I will be labeled religious or what not, but I am Catholic, not a very hardcore Catholic, but I know my religion and what not but I have thought of this question before and wanted to share my opinon.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
"16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. "

I would say yes, they did "procreat" but in a different way.

I agree...After all, before this "curse" God laid on Eve, humans were capable of procreating. It's just that, if you take the theory of evolution into account, we were more like apes than Homo Sapiens at the time...And even modern day female apes only "go into heat" once a year. The part of the quote up above presumes that, when God laid the "curse", he multiplied Eve's sorrow by making her go into heat every lunar month instead of once per year.

Originally posted by capone3d
I agree with lady V . They only copulated after eating the fruit and 'lived forever'.

IMO, this is only partially correct; Since the Scriptures speak with heavy use of metaphor & parable, the time when the "fruit was eaten" was the same time that human beings first realized that sex was actually connected with conceiving offspring.

LadyV, I finally agree with you on something. There is no way that God created us NOT to procreate from the very beginning! The sin was twisted around so that sex would be seen as something bad, and not the thing it truly is, which should be glorified. I dont know if what I just said makes any sense, however, I am very tired. So, with that said, I believe that the apple wasn't knowledge, or the idea of obtaining knowledge, it was curiousity. Curiousity drove us to eat the apple, curiousity caused us to challenge God's word.