Alabama officer shot, killed sovereign citizen; video released

originally posted by: roadgravel


Depending on what they were doing, he my be within his right to stop them by taking the weapon.

Well, an officer was trying to detain him because he wasn't following simple commands, and then he tried to escape the control of officers and fight against them.

Detention by LEOs is not, alone, a valid reason to take an officer's weapon. Furthermore, you'd have to research AL law, but it may be justification for use of deadly force no matter what the circumstances.

a reply to: Slickinfinity

Opinions are fine, but it's worth actually reviewing real statistics before making silly claims like:

I can honestly say that the police as a whole are out of control and corrupt to the point your life is in danger just by being in their presence.

I mean, hell, I can say something like, "I can honestly say that there meteoroids are flying all out of control in our solar system, to the point where our lives are in danger just being on Earth," but when you look at probabilities and statistics and other data, 99.9999999999% of human being will never be negative affected by meteoroids.

The same can be said about LEOs--and don't even get me started on the reality that attitude and actions of the civilians during interactions generally dictates the actions of the police.

But, you know opinions--everyone has one...

a reply to: Guiltyguitarist

Interesting generalizations and claims.

Funny how you think that most people become LEOs to be heroes--in my experience it's generally the opposite, but the bad ones cause people who don't pay attention to paint them all with a broad stroke. I'm not saying that certain cities and departments don't have their systemic problems, but on the whole, the majority of officers are good at their jobs and good at being decent human beings.

Most of the people in videos like in the OP, though, I can't seem to say the same for.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: SlapMonkey

I know in that situation 2 people should have been able to restrain him. He was half the size of the one officer and skinny as a rail.

To be fair, though, I know a few skinny-as-a-rail guys in my martial arts classes that could have handled that officer easily.

Size and preconceptions are irrelevant. I mean, he was a "sovereign citizen"...doesn't that automatically make him invincible?

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

I've sat on a Grand Jury. The indictment or refusal to indict means nothing.

The Grand Jury is chosen just like any jury... last time I was called for jury duty, they chose two juries for trials and one Grand Jury, all from the same pool. The jury hears all the evidence from both sides' lawyers and witnesses, and there are strict court proceedings to adhere to in deciding who can say what to avoid undue influence from either side.

On a Grand Jury, you sit in a nice, comfortable room and listen to the DA (or assistant) make their case. That's it... no judge, no lawyers (usually), no evidence rules. A Grand Jury can demand to hear from additional witnesses to hear both sides, but that rarely happens... these folks just want to get through and go back to their homes or jobs, and subpoenas take time to execute. The prevailing attitude is something like, "The DA thinks he can win, so let's indict and let him try." If the DA doesn't want to try a case, all he has to do is present evidence and claim it isn't enough for a trial; 90% of the Grand Jury will believe him. If he does want to try the case, he presents it as something he is sure of; again, 90% of the Grand Jury will believe him.

In my case, we indicted or refused to indict on the DA's recommendation, save one out of dozens of cases. That one is a long story.

Don't put too much faith in the Grand Jury system... it's a formality most of the time.

TheRedneck

2 murders in my City the last 48 hours....one a Drug Deal gone bad with a bad guy shooting up another bad guy...and one Police murder of a suspected car thief...an accident had happened and Police were called due to suspicion one vehicle was stolen...no high speed chase no escape attempt...but somehow during the investigation at the scene a female Cop shot and killed the driver of the suspected stolen vehicle...there was a so-called struggle of some unidentified type and the suspect was shot dead in his seat....HE WAS NOT TRYING TO EVADE THEM OR RUN THEM OVER OR GET AWAY ...he was likely shot in the head at point blank range by a high powered handgun using high powered killer ammunition police forces use and a hole the size of a grapefruit was blown out the back of his head and onto the passenger.


I get the drug deal gone bad....I do not get a Cop murdering a suspected car thief...and just to stop the BS I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT A COP HAS A LEGAL RIGHT TO DISCHARGE A FIREARM AT A SUSPECT UNESS THERE IS A WEAPON CLEARLY IN SIGHT AND CLEARLY BEING USED IN A THREATENING MANNER NOT SIMPLY BEING HELD IN THE HAND....there used to be these things called NEGOTIATORS....but now we have EXECUTIONERS INSTEAD....this is the direct fault of JUDGES AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS...and they must be held accountable now and postbench….no one has a right to freaking goddam execute citizens for breaking laws...no one under any circumstances....and for the EVERLOVING LOVE OF GOD...you CANNOT MURDER car thieves UNLESS they drive straight at you....NOT BESIDE YOU OR AROUND YOU...Cops are EXECUTING PEOPLE WHO ARE ONLY SUSPECTED CAR THIEVES FOR SIMPLY TURNING THE KEY ON OR PUTTING IT IN DRIVE AND TRYING TO ESCAPE...THE PENALTY FOR EVADING THE POLICE IS NOT EXECUTION......so this means all these Cops are MURDERERS....and all those who seek to exonerate them using collective power and influence are collisional.

A scared teenager who stole a car and is trying to get away is NOT A FREAKING TERRORIST RUNNING PEOPLE DOWN......these MURDERS HAVE TO STOP and the only way to stop them is to JAIL WITH PRDJUDICE any and all Cops we see ONLINE DOING THESE THINGS....once the video hits online then the Cops MUST BE FOUND AND DEALT WITH TO THE MOST COMPLETE LENGTHS OF THE LAW...this is a job for Trump it is his job to ensure the processes are working properly....send him this thread link.


Not producing ID and then turning to run or resisting arrest is not reason to be EXECUTED....ever...never...not in a free Country.

originally posted by: one4all
..he was likely shot in the head at point blank range by a high powered handgun using high powered killer ammunition police forces use and a hole the size of a grapefruit was blown out the back of his head and onto the passenger.

Do they now send Canadian citizens evidence before anyone else? How about waiting until the investigation is concluded.

The guy being arrested stated that he was a sovereign citizen. This was a bad move because a sovereign citizen is a part of the Sovereign Citizen Movement, a violent group that percolated up from the Tea Party Movement. The US Government has labeled the Sovereign Citizen Movement as a terrorist organization. Someone stating they are a sovereign citizen is proclaiming they are above the law.

I don't believe the Police were justified in using deadly force against the man.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: one4all
..he was likely shot in the head at point blank range by a high powered handgun using high powered killer ammunition police forces use and a hole the size of a grapefruit was blown out the back of his head and onto the passenger.

Do they now send Canadian citizens evidence before anyone else? How about waiting until the investigation is concluded.

The investigation is tainted by proxy....in Canada the Police investigate the Police....you ever heard of legalised conflict of interest...well now you have...and the MSM and Civil management supports the tainted Police processes.


There is no evidence which will exonerate a Cop who kills a person unless imminent harm or bullets are flying at the cop FIRST.....yes it sucks but find another job if you cant take the heat.....this BS of shooting dead people inside vehicles when they are suspected thieves just because they drive the vehicle when told to stop....this is legalised execution and there is no way to BS your way out of that definition....escaping justice is not cause to be summariy executed by a Cop....ever....fighting back is not a reason to be executed by a Cop....running away is not reason....trying to remove a Taser from your body when it is pumping you full of potentially deadly electricity is NOT A REASON FOR A COP TO SUMMARILY EXECUTE A HUMAN BEING....we could go on all day long but these are ALL CAPITOL CRIMES BY CIVIC EMPLOYEES AND FEDERAL EMPLOYEES.

You dont get to simply clear yourself legally by yelling drop the gun once waiting a one-missisippi and then EXECUTING SOMEONE FOR NOT DROPPING THE GUN OR ITEM ON TIME.....there has to be imminent threat and holding a gun and even pointing it in a generic direction is NOT ENOUGH REASON TO EXECUTE...........telling someone to shut off the car and then waiting a one-missisippi before you blow their brains out and excute them for non-compliance....is called MURDER.


We need to begin by DISARMING 1/2 of the Police force....no gun for 1/2 of them...and if you cannot meet size requirement that enable you to physiclly battle suspects then you cannot be a Cop....no one got executed back when Cops were required to physiclly handle you without blowing your goddam head off for non-compliance.....non-compliance to a verbal command can get you summarily executed in Canada or the USA.....there are legally suported SOP sequences of verbal commands combined with physical actions resulting in exponential escalation to the lethal level that have been vetted by Laywers andJudges in support of the thin blue line that Cops follow which protect the when they summarily execute an innocent person....in short you go from belligerent and non-compliant to verbal commands to DEAD in less than 20 seconds...and no one is held accountable.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yeah, dude, I said as much: “a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich”. I spent two weeks in May on a federal disctrict court jury for the Eastern District of NC. Also, spent an entire year in grad school studying “law and economics”, reading a bunch of Posner, Becker, Coase, and a few other usual suspects.

If you’re simply reaffirming what I replied to great! Otherwise, I’m confused.

originally posted by: one4all
....in Canada the Police investigate the Police...

Same as the United States, but you'd know this if you actually lived here.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: one4all
....in Canada the Police investigate the Police...

Same as the United States, but you'd know this if you actually lived here.

Both Countries have the exact same problems...in exactly the same places to exactly the same degrees....in terms of how the People are ignored and deceived in a collusionary manner.A lot of the topic content here on ATS is USA driven....everybody lives in the USA....lol.

Americans are a fun lot....heres a bone for you...did you know that the famous Oak Island Treasure was used to finance the Unted States of America....I know who owns the USA....can you discover who it is .

originally posted by: one4all
Both Countries have the exact same problems...

Yeah, people talking out of their asses.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: one4all
Both Countries have the exact same problems...

Yeah, people talking out of their asses.

And people with their heads buried in their asses.

originally posted by: one4all
And people with their heads buried in their asses.

Then I suggest you extract yours.

a reply to: notsure1

So if these cops were to get shot, would others be worried about their families?

Why arent they worried about the families of the victims of "police gang" violence?

These 4-6 cops involved should be murdered. Not brought to court fairly like the law says. They should have the entirety of this mans family and friends chase them to the ends of the earth with kamikaze blood vengeance.

I may not feel as strongly about this later, but everytime I press play and hear those kids screaming I want to go out and pick a fight with a cop.

This is evil. This problem we have as a country with insane blue murderers hiding among the real cops is sick.

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Yeah, we're in agreement. Sorry if it didn't come across that way.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: one4all
And people with their heads buried in their asses.

Then I suggest you extract yours.

You will be assimilated.....the gig is up....the old tricks and cons dont work....your defense of a now archaic status quo is futile....and we will erase the Thin Blue Line and every trouble making lip flapper like you who spews verbal diarrhea willl be outed for the anti-humanitarian focus they truly are.....keep beating the party line drum and see where that gets you.....lol.
….like I said Augie....nice to know which side of the fence you sit on.....LMAO.

originally posted by: Wildbob77
It's such a sad situation.

It could all have been avoided if he had just showed the cops his id

Everyone on this site needs to realize that when a cop asks you to show your id, if you choose not to comply the situation could very well escalate.

Is it worth your life to not show your DL to a cop?

What did you think of the gestapo shooting people if they did not show their papers?

Vhere are your paperz!

a reply to: jacobe001

I don't think he had to show them sweet f all, to be honest, what crime was committed..none, and he wasn't driving either so no need to carry ID even.
But true enough I guess..submit or possibly die.