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Forced Government Indoctrination - AKA public schooling

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posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: nightbringr

Here's the thing though - In many cases, nothing stops those parents from homeschooling now.




posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:06 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963
They had the authority to beat my ass


hmmm

woulda never guessed that about you.

ha



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Edumakated

At the same time, parents who don't care aren't likely to make much effort to apply and jump through the hoops a voucher would require.

In a sense, it would mainly be a self-sorting system. Although, at the same time, those parents who do care but have lost control of their children might also be offered schools that grow up to specialize in rehabilitating those situations.

A voucher system would allow for greater freedoms and more customized education approaches to grow up. Not all of them would work, but some would likely work out very well and thrive. And I don't see the public school systems dying altogether. It might actually improve them as well. Think what might happen if parents were able to sort their students on their own rather then having all kids forced into one classroom.

A teacher in a typical public school might actually get a functional room for a change in many settings where she is now tasked with specials needs on both the high and low ends, students with learning disabilities, and neurotypical students.


Yeah, I agree. Those that care enough would take advantage. However, the question remains what we do with the those left behind. Clearly the system is not working now. How is it possible to have schools where 90% of the kids can't read at the right grade level?



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Edumakated

At the same time, parents who don't care aren't likely to make much effort to apply and jump through the hoops a voucher would require.

In a sense, it would mainly be a self-sorting system. Although, at the same time, those parents who do care but have lost control of their children might also be offered schools that grow up to specialize in rehabilitating those situations.

A voucher system would allow for greater freedoms and more customized education approaches to grow up. Not all of them would work, but some would likely work out very well and thrive. And I don't see the public school systems dying altogether. It might actually improve them as well. Think what might happen if parents were able to sort their students on their own rather then having all kids forced into one classroom.

A teacher in a typical public school might actually get a functional room for a change in many settings where she is now tasked with specials needs on both the high and low ends, students with learning disabilities, and neurotypical students.


Yeah, I agree. Those that care enough would take advantage. However, the question remains what we do with the those left behind. Clearly the system is not working now. How is it possible to have schools where 90% of the kids can't read at the right grade level?


It's possible. I spent some time in one. Most frustrating two years of my life.

Kids don't care. Parents don't care. Teachers go through the motions because they know no one else cares.

It's generational, and those are the cases where specialized schooling needs to develop. It would have to be more than just in the school building though. We're talking about total inside/outside involvement. Those are kids who need complete lifestyle makeovers and rehabilitation, so you would have to get the parent/s on board too ... or board or out of the picture. But if you cut them out, then you're looking at long-term boarding, and I can't see anyone anywhere being on board for that level of interference, not even in the worst family situations.



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:25 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
Better they be brainwashed in religious schools?

Or at the whim of their parents ideaologies?

Plenty of successful people have come out of public school.

I fully support public education.
More needs to be done -- not less.



Yes , better for them to be Christian as their parents than a borg for the public school system to turn out. I thought this was all about progressive diversity and how diversity is the cats meow. Diversity that did not include a class of followers of Christ isn't very diverse at all. Only as diverse as you like it.



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:25 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: nightbringr

Here's the thing though - In many cases, nothing stops those parents from homeschooling now.
It's against the law here, and those parents are often held accountable for truant kids. It may not always work, but these parents love to get rid of the kids for the day.

Any time these kids are away from the terrible influence of their parents is good time. Get them into the gym, doing something constructive and possibly learning life skills. They simply do not get that at home.



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:27 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

Or at the whim of their parents ideaologies?

.


Yes, children should be raised by their PARENTS' ideologies. Not someone else's, not yours, but their PARENTS.



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:33 PM
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originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: Annee

Or at the whim of their parents ideaologies?

.


Yes, children should be raised by their PARENTS' ideologies. Not someone else's, not yours, but their PARENTS.

I couldn't agree more.

But removing private schools isn't the way to solve this. The solution is simple.

Ban political discussion from schools. Nothing more needs to be done.

Say what you will, but some parents would do nothing with their kids during their home schooling than teach them how to be better criminals.



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:36 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
Better they be brainwashed in religious schools?

Or at the whim of their parents ideaologies?




You know ...

One thing you're always very proud of is how you have raised your kids according to your ideology and belief systems.

Why is it OK for you to do it, but it's not OK for other parents to do it?



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:37 PM
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a reply to: nightbringr

Some parents, but some parents isn't all parents.

Why would you penalize those parents for whom homeschooling may be the only option for their kids?



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:40 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: nightbringr

Some parents, but some parents isn't all parents.

Why would you penalize those parents for whom homeschooling may be the only option for their kids?

A penalty would be removing the ability of said parents to homeschool. No one is proposing that. No one is losing any options.

The OP however IS proposing banning public schools outright.



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: nightbringr

I agree that we need to scrap the system as it currently stands.

It's a monopoly that has become injurious to too many of the kids it's supposed to serve.



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: nightbringr

I agree that we need to scrap the system as it currently stands.

It's a monopoly that has become injurious to too many of the kids it's supposed to serve.

Why scrap the entire system when you simply need to mandate and enforce political and ideological neutrality?



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:47 PM
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American Society is set up in such a way that it's really hard to get away from public education. It's free and easy.

To get my kids out of public education, I'd have to move out of the city to a rural destination with a low median housing price, so that our mortgage could be low enough to pay for with one income or one and a half incomes, since one of us would have to stay home to homeschool the kids.

I don't worry about indoctrination as far as philosophy etc, since I talk to them all the time at home and they read a lot.

As far as the benefit of public education..they get the basic science, math, reading, geography and history that I don't have to teach them. Almost as important is the social aspect. They learn important social skills that they wouldn't get if they were home with only immediate family every day.

edit on 16-8-2018 by amazing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 04:48 PM
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Yes, I did.



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Shouldn't at least part, if not the majority of that, lie with the students and their parents?

I like to think that i was a normal kid. I read voraciously as a child, yet managed to find time to get into more than my fair share of trouble. I grew up reading literature, science, and history. The librarians, all of 'em, at the local public library were on a first name basis with me.

Teachers can inspire, and show the way. The rest is up to the kids, and their parents.

IMHO, once a certain level of competence is achieved why should anyone be required to do more? I can think back on many folks that I went to school with who didn't need to be there, nor did they want to be.

I wanted to learn, and I can remember being so very frustrated that we went so slowly in many of my classes. Catering to the lowest and the slowest isn't the right way to do it.



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: amazing

What needs to happen is that the money needs stop being chained to the school first.

If the government says they are spending X amount per pupil per year, then that amount needs to be spent *no matter where the kid goes*. It shouldn't matter if it's the local school two blocks away that would have been legally mandated like it is now or if the parents add that money plus a couple thousand more to send junior to a private institution across town, if the money is to educate junior then all that matters is that junior is educated. The where shouldn't be the important factor it is now.

Parents should get a larger say than the size of their mortgage.



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 05:24 PM
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a reply to: seagull

People need better counseling on their options post education.

We've transitioned to a model where everyone thinks they need post-secondary education and they're nothing if they don't get it. That's not true though. There are plenty of solid jobs in the trades one can work that will support you and are very necessary but don't require a degree in anything.

There's a fine line between counseling on options though and forced tracking.

If someone of less capacity has the hunger and desire to learn and more skilled and educated trade, they might make it through. It's about persistence and effort sometimes more than actual mental ability although some things do have a floor to them.



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 05:27 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: seagull

People need better counseling on their options post education.

We've transitioned to a model where everyone thinks they need post-secondary education and they're nothing if they don't get it. That's not true though. There are plenty of solid jobs in the trades one can work that will support you and are very necessary but don't require a degree in anything.

There's a fine line between counseling on options though and forced tracking.

If someone of less capacity has the hunger and desire to learn and more skilled and educated trade, they might make it through. It's about persistence and effort sometimes more than actual mental ability although some things do have a floor to them.


I agree. I think most degrees are worthless. I've beaten other job candidates that had 4 year degrees because of experience and interviewing skill.

I would say 20% of jobs need a specialized degree or specific technical training like the Police (academy) plumbers(apprenticeship) doctors and accountants (degree) Lawyers (degree). Everyone else no.



posted on Aug, 16 2018 @ 05:33 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Yep. When did training in a trade become something to be avoided?

Being a plumber, a good one, is a gold mine. Being a mechanic means never being unemployed. Etc...

I'll never, again, work in a cubicle, laughingly called my office. If that means working at Wal-mart, or finding self employment mowing lawns and trimming hedges, so be it. There's nothing shameful in that.

At the same time, I continue learning what I want to learn, be it anthropology, computer sciences (unlikely), or learning blacksmithing/knife-making.

A certain level of education should be required, but after that, help in finding their own way in the world seems, to me anyway, a good idea.




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