Forced Government Indoctrination - AKA public schooling

Great video reviewing some of the finer points in the argument against public schooling.



The benevolent nanny state doesn't exist.

Money should follow students, providing opportunities in private schools as well as home school education w/o any sort of federal input/oversight/regulation.

collectivism

a reply to: JBurns

Flagg for you baby!!

Reagan's woman head public education quit him and wrote a book about it in the 80's

Funny thing is a lot of the biggest patriots were brainwashed into worshipping a flag in public school. I remember a kid in one of my classes in high school being written up and sent home because he didn't want to stand for the national anthem.

Get 'em while they're young and don't know any better.

Better they be brainwashed in religious schools?

Or at the whim of their parents ideaologies?

Plenty of successful people have come out of public school.

I fully support public education.

More needs to be done -- not less.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Funny thing is a lot of the biggest patriots were brainwashed into worshipping a flag in public school. I remember a kid in one of my classes in high school being written up and sent home because he didn't want to stand for the national anthem.

Get 'em while they're young and don't know any better.

Wow! respect and worship have two different meanings.

Perhaps you should demand a refund of your debt or what you have paid for your college education? Obviously they weren't interested in actually educating people but turning them into idiots?

Respect is word that obviously is exempt from the Progressive vocabulary!

originally posted by: JBurns
Great video reviewing some of the finer points in the argument against public schooling.

www.youtube.com...

The benevolent nanny state doesn't exist.

Money should follow students, providing opportunities in private schools as well as home school education w/o any sort of federal input/oversight/regulation.

collectivism

In some ways, we already do have school choice and the money follows the child. People are free to move into areas with good school districts. People do it all the time. Ask any Realtor. Good public schools are almost 100% correlated with high home prices because people want to live in areas with good public schools.

Where this model falls down is at the lower incomes because they may not be able to easily move to better performing school districts. One way they get around this is lying about residency. I live in an area with excellent k-12 public schools, but the area is pretty expensive. Our school has an issue with parents lying about residency so their kids can attend (getting fake addresses or paying people to say they live at a house in the community, etc).

Unfortunately, public schools reflect the communities they serve. In other words, a public school that primarily serves a community with broken homes, drugs, etc (i.e., your typical urban ghetto or say a backwater rural area) is going to perform poorly because the schools are only as good as the students that attend.

It isn't that the schools are good, but that the students that attend said school are already high achievers. Kids from a wealthy suburb can attend school in a one room dirt shack and they will still have better outcomes than if you moved every ghetto hoodrat kid into a brand new $20 million school.

I support vouchers and school choice because it gives the kids in bad areas who might have parents that give a damn a fighting chance to attend a better school. However, we need to be realistic. It isn't going to save the vast majority of the kids in these bad neighborhoods as their issues aren't the schools but the parent's (or lack thereof) at home.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Funny thing is a lot of the biggest patriots were brainwashed into worshipping a flag in public school. I remember a kid in one of my classes in high school being written up and sent home because he didn't want to stand for the national anthem.

Get 'em while they're young and don't know any better.

Wow! respect and worship have two different meanings.

You understood that as s child?

As a child you understood pledging your allegiance to a country?

a reply to: JBurns

What a load.

While the curriculum should certainly be looked at, mandatory private schooling, (or lack of ANY education if you can't afford private), is not a solution and will only widen the gap between those who have and those who have not.

If you do not like public schools, what do you propose is better, OP?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Funny thing is a lot of the biggest patriots were brainwashed into worshipping a flag in public school. I remember a kid in one of my classes in high school being written up and sent home because he didn't want to stand for the national anthem.

Get 'em while they're young and don't know any better.

Wow! respect and worship have two different meanings.

You understood that as s child?

As a child you understood pledging your allegiance to a country?

Yea! I had great parents! They taught me about respect and enforced it.

Damn shame it isn't taught anymore in our schools thanks to people who like you think it's okay to disrespect the flag that so many died for so you have the freedom to be disrespectful.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Funny thing is a lot of the biggest patriots were brainwashed into worshipping a flag in public school. I remember a kid in one of my classes in high school being written up and sent home because he didn't want to stand for the national anthem.

Get 'em while they're young and don't know any better.

Wow! respect and worship have two different meanings.

You understood that as s child?

As a child you understood pledging your allegiance to a country?

LOl you dont think so? But you think they understand gender neutrality ?

a reply to: seeker1963

Not everyone has great parents.

My brother in laws teaches troubled youth with horrendous parents who could never, ever afford to send their kids to private school.

You know what they would teach their own 'home schooled' kids? How to be criminals, thugs, druggies and alcoholics.

originally posted by: nightbringr
a reply to: seeker1963

Not everyone has great parents.

My brother in laws teaches troubled youth with horrendous parents who could never, ever afford to send their kids to private school.

You know what they would teach their own 'home schooled' kids? How to be criminals, thugs, druggies and alcoholics.

I had great teachers too! They had the authority to beat my ass if I was disruptive and disrespectful in school.

a reply to: seeker1963

Why should anyone have to be required to respect a piece of fabric? Especially someone too young to understand what it is they're being required to do? The logic doesn't compute with me.
No one should be required to salute, pledge allegiance, etc to a cloth rectangle. Totally different than saying "thank you" directly to a soldier that has defended our country. I still wouldn't require it, but that makes infinitely more sense to me than absentmindedly reciting a pledge that has no meaning to a child.

originally posted by: narrator
a reply to: seeker1963

Why should anyone have to be required to respect a piece of fabric? Especially someone too young to understand what it is they're being required to do? The logic doesn't compute with me.
No one should be required to salute, pledge allegiance, etc to a cloth rectangle. Totally different than saying "thank you" directly to a soldier that has defended our country. I still wouldn't require it, but that makes infinitely more sense to me than absentmindedly reciting a pledge that has no meaning to a child.

It has meaning now to me because I had to do it as a child..

MAGA.

a reply to: notsure1

If it has meaning to you, I fully support you reciting the pledge to it. What I meant was, if doing that has zero meaning to a person, they shouldn't be required to recite it.

Individual liberty and all that good stuff.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: nightbringr
a reply to: seeker1963

Not everyone has great parents.

My brother in laws teaches troubled youth with horrendous parents who could never, ever afford to send their kids to private school.

You know what they would teach their own 'home schooled' kids? How to be criminals, thugs, druggies and alcoholics.

I had great teachers too! They had the authority to beat my ass if I was disruptive and disrespectful in school.

Me too! I'm old enough I experienced corporal punishment at school.

My point still stands though. This method will only increase lawlessness.

a reply to: Annee

I trust the parents ideology far more than one devised by some bureaucratic nightmare.

Point is, the kids don't belong to the State. Until they are 18, they are beholden to their parents or legal guardians.

Much like the other nanny laws, they began under false premises. Think back to the seatbelt laws, first they were only for children (think of the children). Next they were applied to all occupants of a vehicle (sometimes excluding the rear passenger seats for adults), but didn't constitute a primary traffic offense (one you can be stopped/arrested for). Next it became a primary offense, and frequently leads to discovery of other illegal activity.

The same slippery slope argument applies across the board, from the Hegelian NFA & GCA (which followed 50 years later) to the institution of compulsory public schools with government/special interest controlled agendae.

I suspect many parents are unhappy with their children being force fed the State's values. Public schools are essentially one big skinner box, designed to shape kids into multiple-choice answering automatons. Well, the problem with multiple choice is that it is an illusion of choice - arbitrary options are presented to you and you must pick one. "Third way" selections not permitted.

The State is not benevolent. When it gets involved, things are generally worse off. Education is no different. A one-size-fits-all approach is one of the largest mistakes I can see coming from this. It ignores the basic truths about individuality, and the vast differences between one another. Why can't alleged liberals understand "diversity"

If I was asked what the #1 thing keeping the USA back as a nation was, my top answer would be the pathetic public schooling system. The number of children that graduate the public schooling system and cannot read at all, let along past an 8th grade level, is sorrowfully astounding.

a reply to: Edumakated

At the same time, parents who don't care aren't likely to make much effort to apply and jump through the hoops a voucher would require.

In a sense, it would mainly be a self-sorting system. Although, at the same time, those parents who do care but have lost control of their children might also be offered schools that grow up to specialize in rehabilitating those situations.

A voucher system would allow for greater freedoms and more customized education approaches to grow up. Not all of them would work, but some would likely work out very well and thrive. And I don't see the public school systems dying altogether. It might actually improve them as well. Think what might happen if parents were able to sort their students on their own rather then having all kids forced into one classroom.

A teacher in a typical public school might actually get a functional room for a change in many settings where she is now tasked with specials needs on both the high and low ends, students with learning disabilities, and neurotypical students.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Annee

I trust the parents ideology far more than one devised by some bureaucratic nightmare.

I pretty much guarantee you would disagree with parents ramming political ideology different than whatever you believe down their children's throats.

And OK with criminal parents teaching their kids to be thugs? Because that's what they do. Read my post earlier to understand how what you suggest will only increase the divide between rich and poor and increase violent crime.

There is a good reason children with terrible parents should have some time in different environments.