The Fruitage of the Spirit

originally posted by: LolliKum
My point is from the point of view of someone who sees a spherical earth as probably the most absurd thing anyone could believe in.

And you believe anything would just pop up the opposite site like PAC man once they reach earth's edge, is logical? You are saying every other spherical celestial bodies like sun, planets and moons is absurd too? So where is your flat mars society?

originally posted by: LolliKum
Now, from that as the starting point for my position, my actual point is not about whether the Earth is flat or not, as if it was debatable, but more that using that notion as if it is "proven truth" as a false religion pitted against the true religion based on the Bible, is an argument no one should engage in because it will only inevitably end in your complete embarrassment.

Complete embarrassment?

Advocating flat earth is a complete embarrassment to scientific field.

originally posted by: LolliKum
OK, look at what I said, I did not say how long since someone proposed such a notion, but the time when it became a dominate belief worldwide.
And this is not anything "the church" told me, since the specific church I belong to totally accepts the idea of planets and places someone could actually go to and there might even be people living on other planets.

So you are saying, somewhere before ( 2018 - 50 years ) 1968 a dominate belief worldwide is still stuck with the old Ptolemaic system?

Do you know Nicolaus Copernicus published Copernican heliocentrism in 1543? It was a hundred years before Galileo proven this to be true and began teaching it at his university? What make you think for more than 400 years after this finding, worldwide belief continue to be in dark age? A lot of major advancement has been made after this discovery. Thanks to Galileo's telescope we finally be able to observe celestial bodies motion with our own eyes. Have you ever visit a planetarium before?

originally posted by: LolliKum
These flat earth facts are things that I mostly learned from watching YouTube videos, as I suggested in my earlier post for others to do likewise.

There is nothing wrong watching YouTube for information. It's wrong however, to trust unqualified armchair seeking attention YouTube uploaders. It's wrong to base fact on pseudo sciences, such as Flat Earth nonsense.

originally posted by: LolliKum
"Debunked" is usually something like a lot of personal attacks on people who hold an opposing view, it is not anything like actually disproving anything.

It does reinforce my belief that some conspiracy theorists are disinfo agents.

originally posted by: LolliKum
Anyway, as I say in the above comment in this post, my goal is not to debate whether the details of these stories are true or not, but to present the argument against the use of these stories as if they are just plain irrefutable facts in order to "debunk" the Bible.

Oh I have tons of evidences to "debunk" the Bible, which is why I've asked, do you need me to list all biblical scienfic errors?

originally posted by: LolliKum
Wow! There is a thing called common sense even in young children, regardless of any "scientific" teachings being taught to them.

Those common sense did not exist before Newton's Law of Gravity. Common sense did not exist in Trinity and many Church's other doctrines such as Eucharist, Rosary and Hail to Mary. Not to mention the use of improper words such as unicorn in KJV and softcore porn.

How about you start doing common sense to your young children by telling the truth about your christmas gifts to them, instead of Santa Claus?

And Jesus did not born on 25th December. But there is one god who is born on 25th December. His name is Mithra. A pagan god.

The last supper was not done on the eve of Christmas. It was done on the eve of Passover.

And you guys believe everything you did, is suppose to base on the word of God?

Seriously?

Do you know the fruit of the spirit of your "men of god" or your monks?

It's called paedophilia and hypocrites.

What you sow is what you reap.

So don't blame God. It isn't His doing. It's your own choice and labor.
"Before the rooster crows in the morning, you will deny me three times."

But hey, God is merciful. Unlike your delusional drunken men who had whores at their side while scribbling the Bible, acting as the apostles. Most of your faithful servants died martyrdom. Your religion is left with nothing except this rubbish monks who acted as if they're inspired by God. Therefore the Bible is their fruit of spirit. You can see how messy and controversial it had become.

Enough said.

God knows everything and how innocents you poor souls are.

May our father in heaven bless you.

a reply to: LolliKum

Hi LoliKum welcome to ATS.

originally posted by: EasternShadow

originally posted by: LolliKum
Sorry to have to break this to you, but the Earth is flat, and the universe does revolve around it.

This topic has been debated to death, even on ATS. I'm not going to drag it over here.

Such a shame that you could not stick by your word.................
Shame on you......

....now look what you made me do!!

It really is a fantastic watch......I dare anyone not to enjoy it, for fun.
I feel that this 'flat earth thing' is like a test from God...............he wants to see if people are still fighting over beliefs..............does it really matter if someone disagrees with what you have come to believe?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Such a shame that you could not stick by your word.................
Shame on you......

....now look what you made me do!!

You should post them on Flat Earth threads. There are many here on ATS. My post was not intended to derail OP.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
I feel that this 'flat earth thing' is like a test from God...............he wants to see if people are still fighting over beliefs..............

Like I said, God doesn't lies. God is flawless. God is perfection.

The bible translation isn't flawless. Flat Earth isn't flawless. KJV's unicorn isn't Hebrew's word for Re'em. Jesus never said he is god. The gospel of John authorship's is highly debated. John's Revelation is forbidden to use in liturgy by some churches, Peter's Gospel is condemn for docetism, Moon is not the "lesser light which rule over the night", stars are not simply blinking lights which are smaller than earth, there is only one Genesis, etc..

I could go on and on for many hours rambling about the flaw of Bible.

God's nature is consistent.
“For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed. (Mal 3:6 ESV)

If Abraham, Moses, Isaiah and Jesus said God's love is unlimited, then god's love is unlimited. If Abraham, Moses, Isaiah and Jesus said, God is omnipresence, omniscient, omnipotent and everylasting, then God is omnipresence, omniscient, omnipotent and everlasting. You dont start with "In the beginning....bull#." There is no beginning. God doesn't spin His words around logic/logia and terminology, just to lie or test human's intelligence, especially, primitive first century monks and their whores behind closed doors.

Everything good comes from God. He does not create Hell just to throw the gullibles into it.
Jeremiah 29:11
11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

But your drunken pedophilian corrupted monks would not have it.
Psalm 139:16-17.
“Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them. How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God! How great is the sum of them!”

What did God say?

Leviticus 19:2
"Speak to the entire congregation of the Israelites and tell them: 'Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy.

Psalm 94:14.
“For the Lord will not cast off His people, nor will He forsake His inheritance.”

Isaiah 40:28
Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.

Jeremiah 23:23-24
“Am I a God at hand, declares the Lord, and not a God far away? Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the Lord. Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the Lord.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
does it really matter if someone disagrees with what you have come to believe?

Regarding Flat Earth and the universe?

Absolutely.

I trust my eyes/planetarium and my math more than armchair youtube pseudo scientist.

a reply to: Akragon

There is mountains of evidence... IF you actually care to look...

Maybe there are mountains of videos purporting to disprove flat earth, but that is not in itself, evidence.
All I have seen is stuff at basically a kindergarten level, if it is presented as evidence, but otherwise just a lot of derogatory personal comments on people who believe in a flat earth.

... flat earthers are actually some of the stupidest people walking the planet...

Anyone can claim to believe in flat earth.
As far as the video you linked to, seriously?!?
OK, you are looking at a tower or smoke stack that is practically 200m tall and somehow it will kill you to move the camera above the top of the waves over which seems to be the Eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea in Palestine or Sinai.
Let me put it this way, the people making it were not looking for truth, but were rigging an experiment to reinforce what they already believed.
This is pretty standard for ball-earth believers.

a reply to: EasternShadow

And you believe anything would just pop up the opposite site like PAC man once they reach earth's edge, is logical?

ad hominem

You are saying every other spherical celestial bodies like sun, planets and moons is absurd too?

question

So where is your flat mars society?

ridicule

Complete embarrassment? Advocating flat earth is a complete embarrassment to scientific field.

ridicule

So you are saying, somewhere before ( 2018 - 50 years ) 1968 a dominate belief worldwide is still stuck with the old Ptolemaic system?

a question that seems to be really just more ridicule.
Misdirection, since i was talking about the shape of the earth, not systems.
The Chinese system and about one third of the population of the earth, the Muslims, believe in flat earth, so you end up with clear majority of people who probably never heard of a globe.
I think what you have in mind is probably something like a dominant school of thought among college professors, not what I was talking about at all.

Do you know Nicolaus Copernicus published Copernican heliocentrism in 1543?

I already addressed this in my earlier post.

It was a hundred years before Galileo proven this to be true and began teaching it at his university?

Copernicus had a thesis that there is a way to calculate movements of objects observed in the sky by imagining them going around the sun. I suppose someone at some time showed it was possible to some degree.

What make you think for more than 400 years after this finding, worldwide belief continue to be in dark age?

Flat earth is not a product of the "Dark Ages".
Heliocentrism has been disputed in scientific circles constantly, so even among academics, it has never been seen as "established fact" and remains to this day only a theory.
But this, again, was not what I was saying, I was saying, what has been generally believed among the great mass of the people who live on the planet, regardless of what is going on in the top levels of academia.

A lot of major advancement has been made after this discovery.

You call it a"discovery", I would say the introduction of a theory. But your argument, I think would better support my side, that when people were deciding that the earth was a sphere, there was no way to tell, so it was just based on anecdotal evidence, like people on the docks watching ships sailing off into the distance.

Thanks to Galileo's telescope we finally be able to observe celestial bodies motion with our own eyes.

"Bodies" would be an interpretation, what we would see is lights.

Have you ever visit a planetarium before?

ad hominem and appeal to ridicule.

There is nothing wrong watching YouTube for information. It's wrong however, to trust unqualified armchair seeking attention YouTube uploaders. It's wrong to base fact on pseudo sciences, such as Flat Earth nonsense.

ad hominem and appeal to ridicule.

It does reinforce my belief that some conspiracy theorists are disinfo agents.

ad hominem

Oh I have tons of evidences to "debunk" the Bible. . .

Great, then you or anyone else like you who wants to "debunk" the Bible can use all of those, and skip mentioning flat earth. This was my original point, that saying "flat earth" is not a way to disprove the Bible or religion in general because lots of people like myself have seem the truth of a flat earth despite the religion I belong to being quite happy to go along with a spherical earth.
As for the rest of your comments, they don't have anything to do with anything I said.
I think you do a good job of illustrating my point that the only argument for a spherical earth is an appeal to authority, with a lot of ridicule and ad hominem thrown in for those who do not bend the knee..

a reply to: Itisnowagain

It really is a fantastic watch......

Kind of old already. There is a new video I watched last night that packs in a lot of information that is on the cutting edge of flat earth research.

Sphere Earth is dead, and all there is left is the "true believers" who were convinced of it in Kindergarten and first grade and like to hold onto those old beliefs for security. Like I was saying before in my earlier post, I don't want to debate it since there is no debate, if you watched the video I linked to, you would see, it is law on the books that the earth is flat and if you plan a building or bridge to conform with a theoretical sphere, you would be breaking the law and legal action can be taken against you.

originally posted by: LolliKum
a reply to: Akragon

There is mountains of evidence... IF you actually care to look...

Maybe there are mountains of videos purporting to disprove flat earth, but that is not in itself, evidence.
All I have seen is stuff at basically a kindergarten level, if it is presented as evidence, but otherwise just a lot of derogatory personal comments on people who believe in a flat earth.

... flat earthers are actually some of the stupidest people walking the planet...

Anyone can claim to believe in flat earth.
As far as the video you linked to, seriously?!?
OK, you are looking at a tower or smoke stack that is practically 200m tall and somehow it will kill you to move the camera above the top of the waves over which seems to be the Eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea in Palestine or Sinai.
Let me put it this way, the people making it were not looking for truth, but were rigging an experiment to reinforce what they already believed.
This is pretty standard for ball-earth believers.

Except you have to try to understand.... flat earthers are in fact morons... its a proven fact

Thus... those that have the patience to attempt to explain the simplest concepts to them should be praised

its not a rigged experiment... its a basic explanation of simple things.... showing factual curvature in a liner measurement... for the basic people... or in other words, flat earthers

IF you actually don't understand it... perhaps you've already grouped yourself in with them...

which makes my plea null and void anyways

a reply to: Akragon

Thus... those that have the patience to attempt to explain the simplest concepts to them should be praised

This is a sort of appeal to "smarter people", I guess a variation on an appeal to authority, that you as a flat-tard, need to just quit thinking and let smart people tell you what you would think if you were one of the elite smart people.
Maybe you do not understand what I was saying.
Here is a camera set up to look over what is virtually open ocean, where the camera is lower than the waves in the middle of the water between the camera and the towers.
That is not "curvature", it is the effects of wind on open sea.
There are plenty of videos of cameras looking across sheltered water inside harbors or lakes, where you can put a camera barely out of the water, but there are not waves that are two meters high in the middle.

a reply to: LolliKum

no... I implore those that are stupid to think along side those that are smart to actually understand why they have PhD's in sciences... Understand practical knowledge that leads our race to development as opposed to idiocy

Flat earth dismisses all science... and it has no place in rational or intellectual discussion

simply... and MAINLY because those that accept such nonsense know nothing of science(s)… yet dismiss what they know nothing of, and dare to claim superior knowledge when they barely prove to show a basic understanding of.....

Well anything really

originally posted by: LolliKum
ad hominem

Nope. It's a fact.

One of the new genius theories to come out of the conference is that we live on a Pac-Man world where planets and objects are instantly transported to the other side of the world as they pass through the edge of the planet.

Flat Earther's Genius New Idea: We Live In A Magical Pac-Man World

originally posted by: LolliKum
question

Which you have fail to answer.

originally posted by: LolliKum
ridicule

Nope. Read this.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, we have an enormous, game-changing spoiler for you. The official Twitter account of the Flat Earth Society responded to Musk’s tweet, and they have claimed that Mars, unlike the Earth, is absolutely, definitely round.

Flat Earth Society Responds To Elon Musk's Tweet And We Just Can't Even

originally posted by: LolliKum
ridicule

As I said, Flat Earth is an embarassment to worldwide education.
Flat-Earther attempts to argue with bemused astronaut on live TV

The bizarre tale of the flat-Earth convention that fell apart

originally posted by: LolliKum
The Chinese system

What Chinese System?

originally posted by: LolliKum
and about one third of the population of the earth, the Muslims, believe in flat earth, so you end up with clear majority of people who probably never heard of a globe.

And your sources of evidence are from Youtube?

originally posted by: LolliKum
I think what you have in mind is probably something like a dominant school of thought among college professors, not what I was talking about at all.

It is comonly taught at secondary school level, at least in my country. Some parts of the world may already introduce spherical Earth at preliminary school. Most kids are more aware of spherical Earth than adult Flat Earthers in my area.Wait, No. No one actually believe in flat earth, no matter Chinese, Indian, Philippine, Indonesian, Malaysian, Burmese, Cambodian or Vietnamese.

originally posted by: LolliKum
Flat earth is not a product of the "Dark Ages".

It was based on Ptolemy's and Aristotle's model of geocentrism. Therefore, it is a product of Dark Age maintain by the Bible.

originally posted by: LolliKum
Heliocentrism has been disputed in scientific circles constantly, so even among academics, it has never been seen as "established fact" and remains to this day only a theory.

Wrong.

The geocentric model held sway into the early modern age, but from the late 16th century onward, it was gradually superseded by the heliocentric model of Copernicus, Galileo, and Kepler

en.m.wikipedia.org...

but the Galileo affair did little to slow the spread of Heliocentrism across Europe, as Kepler's Epitome of Copernican Astronomy became increasingly influential in the coming decades.[102] By 1686 the model was well enough established that the general public was reading about it in Conversations on the Plurality of Worlds, published in France by Bernard le Bovier de Fontenelle and translated into English and other languages in the coming years. It has been called "one of the first great popularizations of science."[101]

In 1687, Isaac Newton published Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica, which provided an explanation for Kepler's laws in terms of universal gravitation and what came to be known as Newton's laws of motion. This placed Heliocentrism on a firm theoretical foundation

en.m.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: LolliKum
But this, again, was not what I was saying, I was saying, what has been generally believed among the great mass of the people who live on the planet, regardless of what is going on in the top levels of academia.

Sure, the great mass of illiterate dark age people and pedophilian monks who live before the 16th century.

The great mass of people during the time of Newton are more likely educated enough to know planetary motion and gravity.

originally posted by: LolliKum
You call it a"discovery", I would say the introduction of a theory. But your argument, I think would better support my side, that when people were deciding that the earth was a sphere, there was no way to tell, so it was just based on anecdotal evidence, like people on the docks watching ships sailing off into the distance.

Nope. It is decided by observations, mathematic applications, well accepted experiments and gravity. Your blinking little stars in the bible just don't fall down to Earth, like John of Patmos said, in Revelation. Gravity exist in space to keep everything in motion. And stars are billions time larger than Earth. Therefore, there is no such things as fallen stars to fill one third of earth, as Revelation predicted. You really should watch the sky with a telescope.

originally posted by: LolliKum
"Bodies" would be an interpretation, what we would see is lights.

Wrong. We could see masses, rocks, gas and other solid matter, such asteroids, moons etc..Again you should really look through a long range telescope.

originally posted by: LolliKum
ad hominem and appeal to ridicule.

More attempt to dodge answering logical questions. You can't even answer simple questions, let alone counter my arguments properly. You never observe space and universe with your own eyes, do you? Yet you dismiss people who spend years watching the sky through high tech telescope, which is, capable to penetrate gamma and x-ray. Things your first century pedophilian monks cannot see with their naked eyes.

originally posted by: LolliKum
Great, then you or anyone else like you who wants to "debunk" the Bible can use all of those, and skip mentioning flat earth. This was my original point, that saying "flat earth" is not a way to disprove the Bible or religion in general because lots of people like myself have seem the truth of a flat earth

The truth is you don't have any rational answers other than "ad hominem and ridicule".
You said it yourself here.

originally posted by: LolliKum
despite the religion I belong to being quite happy to go along with a spherical earth.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Really????
What is the matter with you? Do you have no self control?

This topic has been debated to death, even on ATS.

And this thread is about 'the fruits of spirit' - one of them being 'self control'.
Lol.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: EasternShadow

Really????
What is the matter with you? Do you have no self control?

This topic has been debated to death, even on ATS.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Feel free to post your thought there.

For me, the matter isn't worth a discussion. Flat earth is a joke and a clear sign of Bible Fallacy, written by delusional first century Monks who never learn heliocentrism.

a reply to: Akragon

Flat earth dismisses all science... and it has no place in rational or intellectual discussion

All I can figure is that you preemptively dismissed all flat earth discussion, otherwise you would not be saying any of the things you are saying here.
"Science" is not an entity, like the magisterium, as the Ministry of Truth that all must obey, you are turning history on its head and taking over the position the Church had in 1633.
Science is a process of study using evidence and repeatable experiments.
The experiments cited by sphere believers go back to 300bc to 1890, and have been often unsuccessfully attempted to be repeated in modern times.

a reply to: LolliKum

I don't need to even dismiss flat earth arguments... they're wrong, so they dismiss themselves... aside from a few gullible morons that watch too much youtube or believe the holy tube is the answer to all things

I can't fathom entertaining such a idiotic idea such as flat earth because all science falls apart in a flat earth scenario

testable science... provable science... and the only way flat earthers can manage to get though their argument is to dismiss science wholesale... as you clearly do

so I shall retain my stance until I see otherwise.... flat earth believers are morons...

and we are so off topic in any case

a reply to: EasternShadow

Most kids are more aware of spherical Earth than adult Flat Earthers in my area.

You obviously have a bias and you think you are the center of the universe so whatever you and a few people very close around you think is all that matters, and now want everyone else in the world to agree.
You can delude yourself into thinking everyone must, because you are "right" because your teacher in school told you so.
Well, everyone else has different teachers and most people in the world just know what is evident before their eyes, which is a flat earth. Spherical earth is something that has to be taught to someone before they have the life experience to rebut those who seem to be in positions of authority over them.
It seems that the sphere earth theory is something only pushed in Western countries with a Christian background, specifically by atheists who want to combat what they see as a history of tyrannical rule by the Church, which you exhibit symptoms of.

a reply to: Akragon

... they're wrong, so they dismiss themselves...

You quite convincingly make my own point yourself.

So, moving along, as I first stated in my post about lame arguments, there is no evidence of a sphere, so criticizing the Bible based on a spherical bias is not proof, and makes the one using it seem very ignorant.

a reply to: LolliKum

No... there is nothing but evidence and factual proof its a globe

Just because you don't accept the facts, it does not make them any less factual

a reply to: Akragon

. . . you don't accept the facts . . .

The fact that so many people say so, that fact?
I would accept as a fact that most people who have an astronomy degree, and put on planetarium shows, agree with the spherical earth theory.
But actual scientific evidence, I have not seen any yet, nor have you presented any other than a video showing you cannot see through waves in front of your camera, which does not prove anything about the shape of the earth.
If the earth was this rather small ball floating in space and spinning at 1000mph at the equator, it would be very easy to prove and there would be evidence everywhere, but there isn't.
Edit to add: according to Google, the Earth's diameter is 7,917.5 mi.

a reply to: LolliKum

There is... abundant evidence, abundant factual proof

Tons of threads on it all over the forum... pilots that have given testamonies all over the forum

IF you're too lazy to actually look as opposed to looking on youtube or the flat earth society... i can't help you

You can't fix stupid

according to Google, the Earth's diameter is 7,917.5 mi.

whats your point?